unskilled-

Its a matter of opinion then, cause I felt that the driving mechanics in GTA4 were fantastic.

Well, the thing with STALKER was that there was, at times, a huge distance between you and your enemies, so naturally bullets would drop (loved that part too). AP's essentially a cooridor shooter and the distance between you and your enemies wouldnt have been great enough to even consider making the bullets drop realistically. Even then, STALKER uses their own game engine to do that, while AP is running on a modified version of the Unreal 3 engine.

It was intentional for gameplay. I'm pretty sure of that. Though it would be nice if that stuff could be modded. Just hope with us that Obsidian decides to help its Mod Community. I think its intentional for gameplay to make each of the upgrades do something of import, but I also can't help but wonder if it was also to help further distance the guns from real-world ones (since I seem to recall there was a lot of talk about them not wanting to have to license from the manufacturers the real guns). If that was the case they would have pulled a CS move; modeling all the guns to their real world specifications then renaming them as to avoid copyright laws.

I was once like that, but after playing so-called "AAA" shooters for 10+ years , I'm so done with that crap. I'll take a gem with some rough spots over a polished been there, done that game. However, Bulletstorm looks like a somewhat fresh shooter. A mixture of Painkiller and The Club. I completely agree, I would rather play innovative games with rough edges than vanilla games that offer no originality. That being said, there is something to the "dumb" games that offers a satisfying feel. That would be skill. Some of these "dumb" games require hand-eye coordination and reflexes to be better than someone else (or even the AI), not how much time you've spent grabbing gear and what have you. Unfortunately there are no games like that being made, not since regenerating health and armor started to become the norm (pussies!), but whatever.

No one-click combat or hot-key combat. Stuff's been used for the past 10-12 years and its about time someone design a new combat system. My idea: A variation of the QTE's you see in certain games. Although, this would be key'd into combat. Essentially, the beginning of the battles would essentially be meeting your foe in close quarters. Without player input or proper AI skills, the battle would essentially be a matter of "parry, block, parry, block, dodge, block, dodge, etc.." This is where the QTE comes in. Depending on a key factor called "Danger" (Couldn't think of a better name at the moment), you would during the midst of combat be able to unleash various attacks on your opponent. This is where QTE comes in, for both players. The attacker would be able to pick various points to attack during battle; left arm, right arm, chest, torso, head, neck, legs.. or armor, weapon, shield; the defender would essentially have to "guess" where the attack is coming from and depending on their choice, they would be able to block the attack and counterattack, get knocked back due to the force of the blow, or possible have their armor bypassed due to a difference in weapon and armor. Individual character stats would determine what you can do in combat; higher dexterity/agility would make you a wire-fu combat artist while high strength and endurance would make you a conan-eqse hack and slasher.

I dunno, I'd rather play a "dumb" game thats well made, fun and engrossing than an "intelligent" game that lacks any of the former.

Answer to your problems is quite simple, Dan. Don't like it? - don't play it. Knowing so much about game design and what should done to be right, what's the best and where's the truth about perfect game experience you shouldn't be wasting your time on these forums. You know what? I have an idea: you should be designing your own game! There's even full engine waiting for you to use! So download your copy of Unreal Development Kit - it's easy to use, ready for your brilliant and ground breaking ideas to became truth! Ah - and don't forget to inform us how is it going and give us some demo to try. I bet, with such deep knowledge about how everything should be done your game is going to be a full blown success, no question about that. ...Ah...unless you're one of those useless malcontent, who can't do anything on their own - just whine that people more talented than you couldn't make something which would suit your sophisticated taste... So sorry for demanding quality production out of the product we paid $50 dollars for. Yeah, thats right. We shouldn't whine or complain about a product we paid for and should expect more out of it. We shouldn't expect the developers or anybody with half a brain to hear our criticism of the game and, hopefully for the future, take them into account and hopefully implement them. But what do we know? I'm sure all of us haven't been playing video games for the past 10 years, so what do we know?

This would be a design oversight or flaw, take your pick.

More depth does not equal more realism.

Like a.. good version of mission impossible for n64?!

Tweak how the specializations work. IMO it should work around lowering the cost of skill points for your given class (ie, assault rifles cost 4 instead of 5 points).

Apparently it will be a Dungeon Siege game. I'm surprised you didn't know that. I'm surprised you're pushing this point when you're aware of the evidence that it will be a strongly story-driven game. Lets hope its not anything like FF13. I never played DS2, but I enjoyed DS1 so much. I loved how the multiplayer world was huge and expansive and non-linear (in a sense). Oh, and packmules.

I'm down, newbie and all.

$20 says they're developing "AP2" which won't be called AP2 just like how Dragon Age: Origins wasn't called Neverwinter Nights 3.

Seriously? You want an engine... more VERSATILE... than UE3? I suppose UE4 will eventually come, but until then I can't think of an engine better suited for the task. Nope, not even Source or CryTek's engine come close... EDIT: Also, random generated missions for AP sounds like the worst idea ever IMO. I suppose you haven't seen my other threads, but yes.. I am a crytek whore. RGM's would be a bad idea, they could be a good idea. It all depends on how they are implemented and executed. At the very least they'll provide some padding for players who'd want to pad the game out for as long as possible.

True, Khelgar alone makes my money spent on it all the worthwhile. And Qara. And Sand. And their fighting in the Sunken Flagon. Damn, I think I need to go find my disks, reinstall and play it all over again!

I can make great cookies while I backflip, when do I start? Out of curiosity, however. What skills would Obsidian be looking for? About schools: What would you recommend for a pure designer course/school? Programming and the like is something I have no talent (or skill) for, but creativity, ideas and general designing are my best traits (and interests, despite my current schooling ;p).

Until you consider that it is an espionage rpg which has little to do with espionage and much more field work (which doesn't degrade the game, but it's still a fact) You can be a spy in the field and do espionage? At least in my opinion you can. It's espionage in the vein of James Bond ... It's cinematic espionage. Gather intel, figure out what the bad guy is up to, stop the bad guy from getting the girl.. or wait.. something along those lines Seems more Mission Impossible to me.

Not too many RPG's out there have a high replayability. The simple fact is that after the story is told, all the secrets are out there and nothing will surprise you the second or 3rd time through. Aside from playing a different style of character, whether good or evil, the story unfolds the same regardless. This is what separates AP from the other games. The story is still unclear even after the first playthrough, and even second playthrough if your not overly careful and meticulous. Hell, the story changes because of the decisions you've made. Any other game in the past 20 years that gave you that much control over the story? Nope (at least from what I remember). That is what makes this game an instant classic in my books, regardless of how many flaws are with the game. Games should be recognized for their groundbreaking achievements, and AP is certainly a groundbreaking achievement in providing the player with incredible choice in determining the story. Even with its numerous flaws (my opinion!) regarding its gameplay and execution, it should still be weight equally against positives and negatives. Let people come to their own conclusions naturally as to what positive or negative is the deal breaker for them. Now for some ramblings (cause I feel this is a cool idea and dont want to forget it!) Now, even if the AP franchise is killed after its first game (who knows?), the conversation system itself and the overall idea behind a player driven story essentially opens up new styles of game and gameplay to be explored. I'm currently interested in a cthulu-style horror story (dark corners of the earth, anyone?) completed with AP's conversation system!

I'd put it to a vote and toss out the current engine and throw in another one thats more.. versatile. The levels need to be bigger, more expansive. Example: Taking out Saheed's convoy.. (you know what I'm talking about) Another example: Taking out the trash for Hong Shi (seriously..) A few more examples: The assassinate Al-Bara Mission (..), Talking to the Gelato dude, Talking to Grigori, Heck or any Information.. those are not levels, and never will be. Add more use to the Safehouses: Infact, make the Safehouses useful to begin with, not just a mission/buy hub. Add more interaction with the characters: Talking to the characters when your required to or through email is awesome, but it would be nice to be able to ring up whomever you wanted (ie, who your 'scrogging') and talk about random stuff, the mission, opinions about people, organizations, etc.. would help add a little more depth and flesh out the characters even more (imho). Add more guns: Like OP says, but also gun fuctionality. Singleshots, full auto and triple shot (cause each weapon is different). Special ammo too, hot-loaded, cold-loaded, sub-sonic, armored piericing, hallowpoint, etc.. you get the drift. And "realistic" gun-mods too.. a laser-sight doesn't go ontop of a pistol (i think). More clothes: If we want Mike to look suave during a mission, we should at least have a choice of picking his suave-ness, not being defaulted to a tacky not-fully buttoned (thankfully collar un-popped) dress shirt. More everything choices: Come on, live up to your "sharp dressed man" trailer. In addition to clothes, more hairstyles, glasses, eyes, beards, and other such stuff that'll make your own personal iThorton complete. More NPC Options as handlers: If your working for Sie, she'll offer you assault based missions that are essentially randomly generated missions for extra monies (cause your 100% rogue at the end of the game, regardless of your decision.. time to go merc). Albatross would offer you infiltrate and/or assassination missions (or maybe scarlet can handle the assassination missions). Mina could handle hostage/bomb situations (dunno how that'd work out as a randomly generated.. will take some thought). NPC backup: Scarlet provides the sniper support, Sie pulls a rambo, Sis would john-woo people (stealthfully too!) and Heck would probably bring a flamethrower to a barbeque. More gadgets: No wonder-EMP please. Face-mask maker (ala MI), laptop gun? Sticky bombs? Trip wires? Remote bombs? Maybe even extra gadgets for your weapons. Like a stun-gun for your handgun (if your outta tranqs), or a keymaster for your assaultrifle (shotgun instead of a underslung grenade launcher).

Give us the option to go 1 shot, triple shot or full auto on our assault rifles. Subsonic rounds are expensive, if I only have to use one then I only want to use one, not 3 all the time!

I saw it on Steam (no flaming please!) and liked the concept enough to plunk down monies for it.

It hasn't failed to meet mine, please quit making statements about my opinions. I played and loved Mass Effect 2, but come on this game is not Mass Effect Gaiden: Alpha Protocol. Comparing them is a useless endeavor; and given that they're vastly different games in what they're trying to do any comparison is only going to scratch the surface of the good and bad in either game. I apologize for my generalized statement. I suppose a fix to the statement would be "AP has failed to meet every game reviewer's expectations." (even then I don't think it would be right, but whatever.. foots already in mouth) Ulicus I agree that ME2 was a downgrade in terms of pure RPG elements, but then.. AP certainly isn't overflowing with depth either. ME1/2 gives you full control over how your character looks and plays, even if you are railroaded after that. AP gives you freedom to choose how you level your iThorton, but then.. aside from minor cosmetic changes, keeps your iThorton essentially the same.

Deadly_Nightshade Glad we agree on a few things. It is true that while ME2 railroads you in terms of one predetermined outcome, that is the side effect of the kind of story it is trying to establish. I'm sure it would have been pretty hard for the developers and writers for ME1/2 to try and write in why Shepard all of a sudden joins the reapers, sentient machines who want to destroy all of humanity. Regarding AP's story, I agree that while it is not the most original story around, it does have enough plot twists to keep things fresh and interesting; thus requiring additional playthroughs to figure out the whole story. As for how I play, I've done all my playthroughs using the stealth method. I'm not scrupulous about whether or not I take down an enemy or not (lethal or otherwise), only doing what is required for the perks, at least.. after my first playthrough (all stealth, no killing). The whole problem with the stealth portion of the game is that it is underutilized. This is due to the fact that the levels are structured so as to railroad you into encounters without any choice in the overall scheme of the level. Having multiple entry points or routes within the level doesn't really count if all the routes are within the same vicinity/checkpoint, nor does it help that the majority of these different routes have intel you'd likely be looking for. What did it for me in regards to ME2's action is the fact that you can actually "feel" (reticule, character shaking, gun moving around, screen moving appropriately) your weapons fire. Its what really helps immerse you into the game and combat, thus making the overall experience more engrossing and fun. AP unfortunately does not have this feature. Nor does it have the selection of ME2's guns. AP has 4 guns, thats it. Everything else is cosmetic and stat-based so you don't really feel that extra "oomph" in your gun aside from enemies going down faster. ME2 has, what? Handgun, SMG, AR, SR, Shotgun and Heavy Weapons. 2 Different handguns and SMGs, 3 different types of ARs, SRs and Shotguns, and 6 (no DLC weapons) heavy weapons. So thats 19 different weapons in total, and they all handle differently with seperate sounds, firing animations, damage output, clip size and other little things (krogan only shotgun, super-sniperrifle that only garrius, legion and i think a sniper specialist shepard can wield). I'll say this again, I'm not hating on AP. However, this doesn't give the game a freepass because of how awesome its player-driven story is. Just because a game nails one feature perfectly or even exceeds everybody's wildest expectations, doesn't excuse it from having other parts of the game that are lackluster or just simply lacking in content, features and/or general polish and quality (yancy when he gets upclose to the screen at the beginning, oh my god).

What? You're joking, right? Yes thats right, I'm joking. Certainly games of ME2's polish, quality and production values don't do anything to raise expectations of other games. Just like how the original Half-Life didn't raise expectations for future FPS games to become more cinematic, nor how MGS for the playstation didn't raise expectations for games everywhere to have high quality voice acting and cinematic cutscenes. Instead of cherry picking my post for a single statement just to make a dumbass remark, why not put some effort into it and actually tell me your opinion.