Monte Carlo

I want to know all about the old-geezer tattooed monk because I like him already. And Raquel Welch, fur-clad dwarf chick.

Bioware are pivotal, Cant. I abandoned them after NeverWinter Nights, where I think they were disingenuous as to what the product was about. Then I was tempted back by DA:O, kind of liked some of it (the combat was better than anything else on the market at the time) and had high hopes that the franchise might develop. Then I saw the romances, the diaper-sex, the online monitoring of gaming, the BSN, the hordes of pant-wetting Buffy fans... and left. DA2 confirmed that Bio / EA was gone. It's like a zombie movie when you see that one of your close friends has been taken by the contagion and is now wandering around, groaning with bodyparts falling off. And but... Bioware made BG and BG2. Dave Gaider made some awesome BG2 mods in his own time. Their star will always shine bright for those achievements, but at the end of the day they followed the money. We don't have to like it.

i would even go further to say that the concept art of PE so far plain sucks. look at these from wasteland 2 then look back at PE pieces: http://www.sghi.info...dree.Wallin.jpg http://images2.wikia...concept_art.jpg https://inxile-waste...ers-concept.jpg Those pics are great. I agree that some of the concept art has been.... nondescript (odd because the artist doing the sepia stuff is awesome if her website is anything to go by). But I genuinely loved the new Update 15 pic. It's kind of vanilla but it really captures the spirit / fun of the genre for me.

getting locked...

OK, my own personal mega-dungeon was pretty vanilla (looking back on it) but it went something like this: History The dungeon's (apparently) deepest level was natural caves. These were unearthed accidentally by an ancient civilization who built tombs above them for their royalty. The story of that royalty is tragic and had lots of plot hooks for the adventurers to solve a long-standing historical dispute in the city (inspired by the alleged murders of the two princes by agents of Richard III at the Tower of London). Later on, these tombs were excavated further by an evil cult that was itself extinguished by goodie-goodie adventurers. The adventurers built a whole level to keep watch on the cult levels, until they were satisfied that the evil was finally gone. Then they left. (levels 1-6 therefore were tombs, cult HQ and the newer barracks of the dudes watching the rest of the dungeon). Then an evil wizard, on the run, happened upon the ruins and caves. He made a pact with the semi-sentient presence of the evil demon-god that the original cult worshipped and expanded the dungeon as a hideout, well below the caves. He invited a load of monsters, including a tribe of minotaurs, to come and join the fun. The minotaurs feasted on prisoners of the wizard. He finally became a lich, but was gobbled up by the demon god who disappeared back to hell. Anyhow, the lich excavations abutted a neighbouring maze occupied by evil, utterly insane dwarves. They had their own maze going on, mining a very valuable ore that was essentially radioactive and led to lots of mutated creatures. The mutated dwarf king, a powerful sorcerer-scientist, was the main bad guy, living down on level 15. So in essence we had the mystery of the ancient tombs, the cult, crazy wizard / lich, minotaurs, demon, abandoned barracks and mutant dwarf complex. There was other stuff going on, but that was the nub of it. All of the factions interacted, the players once even sided with the dwarves (temporarily) to quell resurgent interest in the cult ruins by new worshippers. In other news, the lich was dead but evil adventurers were after his phylactery. There was a portal where you could do business with the original demon-god's avatar. Yadda yadda. All I'm saying is that a story / theme is essential for a fun megadungeon.

Close to BG2/IWD. Thank you. I can now sleep at night. And hopefully so can everybody else.

Is there any way to randomize traps for replayability. Also, a dev-type question: how tough is it to implement genuine Wandering Monster tables? Wandering Monsters are cool.

Yeah, internecine dungeon warfare. I like. That way the adventurers could actually live in the dungeon for a bit, with the side they've taken. Maybe they could trade with the dungeon inhabitants and learn skills and feats, become like special forces snake-eaters living out in the wilds. Imagine if, living with a tribe of savage humanoids, they taught you some tribal magic, you got tattoos and piercings, learnt their lore and it impacted on other creatures of that type you met elsewhere. A bit like Ron Burgundy's dog, who makes friends with the bears.

I have to disagree MReed, although your post is salient I think many of us could cherry pick between the attributes you list. I'm, honestly, sort of in the middle with a strong Group Two bias. Which means that the binary distinction is, frankly, bunk.

Sandwiches of Entropy Diamonds on the Souls of my Boots (of Striding) My Husky has Rabies Carharrt Dungarees of Ennui The Glanfarthan Soul-Saw Massacre Bada-bisch! Obz, call my agent if you are interested.

A very astute analysis Merin. I think that a tabletop P:E gaming supplement for the OGL or Pathfinder might work: after all that is digital distribution-only if you want it.

^ Wear a fireproof suit duct-taped at the wrists.

DA DAAAA!!!! 52500.

52499. Suspense is killing me.

I want to paint my fists with petrol, light them and punch zombies. That would be cool.

Oh, and while I'm at it the D3 CE had a soulstone thumb drive. I would seriously like a P:E themed thumb drive, I collect the suckas. Merch, guys.... MERCH.

Hey, Obsidian. I have an idea for a Backer Reward. I love character sheets from old RPGs. Love 'em! Why not ger Brian Menze to design a special character sheet for P:E characters (I love Brian's work around stuff like that) and we can have it as a PDF to populate with our character's stats? Then we could print it off, on fancy vellum paper or something. Maybe like an app or something new-fangled. Optional icons for weapons and armour etc. I'd frame my favourite character's sheet and put it in my Geek Shrine ™. And I'd pay for it, too. Cheers MC I don't know how much you'd charge, but I'd certainly be up for it.

w00t!

52,491... Well done with those tramps, NB

Sensuki's point might sound obvious, but it is crucial to my mind. Conquering the next dungeon level should be a major achievement. For example, while you are on level 2 you will pick up tidbits of info on level 3. That will guide you as to any specialist spells, equipment or supplies you might need (dammit there are ghouls on level 3, we need holy water and a cleric!). As you descend the challenges and threats get greater. This does NOT (necessarily) mean level-scaling. There might still be relatively weak monsters on lower levels that you might easily defeat if it is logical in the dungeon ecology (say for example that the Ogre Magi on level 6 has an army of stupid Hobgoblin mooks who he uses as fodder for over-confident adventurers, grinding down their spells and supplies before he enters the fray). Ideally, at the end of a level, if you've gauged it right, your party should be battered, have gotten some great loot, used skills and defeated suitably tough foes. When you find the next level down you will almost certainly need to travel back to civilization for a re-org phase. I'm happy to see a level-scaling discussion here, it is very important. But maybe only some boss battles or key events should be scaled. I'm all for the old "this module is suitable for character levels 6-9" spiel. Caveat emptor and all that.

Personally I'm hoping for some unique terrain. IWD showed us how good Obz are at beautifully designed dungeon levels with interesting tactical possibilities. And the lower levels of Dragon's Eye, for example, shows us how they can implement diverse monster types / factions. Of course, I'd like it if you could parley with the inhabitants of the dungeon rather than them attack on sight. Dungeon-dwellers might get used to adventurers and not always view them as a threat. Maybe they'd trade for intelligence about what's going on above the dungeon, for treasure or even for assistance.

You have to remember that 90% of the modern gaming 'press' are brain-dead PR whores. Although RPS is OK and has a dedicated wargaming bloke who is quite good. But, yeah, that "lots of numbers" line made me cringe. You don't have a dig at flight sims because "there's too many dials" do you?

He's a mage, ain't he? Unless he's a rogue with some powaz. It's cool that we don't know exactly, isn't it?

^ Completely agree. In fact, I'd like to see some 'old-skool' lite games specifically designed to introduce the younger gamers who might like this sort of thing to the genre. Diablo shows that fantasy is popular, you need to create that feel but with a story and interactivity then build on it. Like back in the day we all started on basic D&D. Then we'd move up in the world.

This thread isn't about anything other than dungeon level ideas and themes. Feel free to go mad. If you want story-based dungeon stuff describe it. If you want traps share your favourites. If you want to use your skills then describe how. If you want to wade through hordes of monsters armed with a +1 golf club, then tell us about it. I have many ideas but I want to hear yours first! http://grognardia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/multi-level-mapping.html This should whet your appetite, hat-tip to the excellent Grognardia blog.