TwinkieGorilla

i agree that if religion were to be addressed it should remain in the fictional realm. as for what Sawyer says about the inanity of serious subjects being tackled in videogames...well, i could be wrong and would be the first to admit it but how many people really even want a video-game that tackles a subject like religion intellectually and seriously? even in cinema, a medium much more suited to the subject imo, some of the most satisfyingly effective attempts are through satire (think Louis Bunuel if you need an example of the perfect use of critical, intellectual humor). in this regard i think a Scientology parody like the Hubologists is topical, humorous, critical and much more intellectually stimulating (if not for any other reason than it's creative ingenuity in a videogame, however silly it may be in the context of the Fallout world) than something like elves vs. dwarves or some other sort of good vs. evil concept seen so often in the "dungeon" world of gaming. also, i may get poked at for this...but i thought the idea of the Reaver Movement was intriguing in FO:Tactics and was handled with winking eye, but didn't feel too "wacky" to me.

i have to admit that was a good pun, there.

has anybody said "about 'effing time!" yet? 'cause if not, i will right now. waiting for this to be over all these years was like waiting for Brett Favre to stay retired (and hey, i'm a damn cheesehead here).

well, i've already stated the things which i feel "need" to happen in order to really please me but i guess now i can get into the smaller nitpicks (not saying universally, just to me). while i am 100% sick of the decades-long over-usage of the "dungeon crawl", i understand it's place in the genre and could forgive it if it's, as azure says, not just a copypasta job like all the dungeon-crawls in FO3 (and no, putting a suitcase next to a skeleton in one dungeon and a teddy bear next to a skeleton in another does not mean it's not copypasta). if we are going to be forced into certain areas, give us a story. give us a reason to want to look around (that reason being something other than seeing the word "empty" on some crates or some batteries and scrap metal). Bethie did this really well, but only once (even if i'm wrong they sure didn't do it often) with the Naughty Nightwear holotape which turns into a scavenger hunt which subsequently turns into a couple branching quests. let's follow that pattern, not the "empty, pointless area with a safe and a skillbook" pattern. pretty please.

interesting list. nothing i really disagree with, but my list is simpler (at least in theory). i know this comes as a shock to anybody who has lumped me in with some abstract idea of a "Fallout fan" in their mind...but truly...i consider myself easy to please. 1) S.P.E.C.I.A.L. implemented the way it was in the first two games. 2) better dialogue a) which doesn't seemed forced (soooo much of the Bethesda dialogue made me groan, "oh god you guys. you're just trying too hard and it's painful to read." b) which captures not only the wit but the spirit of the originals. c) which has the complexity, breadth, humor and diversity of the branches we saw in the likes of even minor characters like Renesco. 3) meaningful consequences and rewards for my actions (re: back to the ideology of the originals which happens to be the antithesis to Bethesda's take on roleplaying which equates to "everybody wins!") and for a bonus: 4) i hope Avellone becomes involved and we can retain some of what he and Sawyer mapped out for VB. i know MCA has it in him to create some deep and beautiful characters, i just hope he decides to not only become involved but to shine again.

yep. you sure do. EDIT: look, this whole discussion is tired and it's been going on for years now. can we just freakin' move past it and talk about FO:NV? i'm sorry but i don't want to read any more dissertations on "Fallout fans" and what we supposedly want or don't want, what we've supposedly wanted or didn't want. it's been discussed long enough and i guarantee nobody's right nor will anybody ever be right. it's just the same damn "this is what you guys think" and "no this is what you guys think" add a little trite debate about sales, rinse and repeat. srsly. FO:NV anybody?

objectively, or your opinion? see how this works? well of course, man! who ISN'T thinking this?

well, if Arcanum is "average" and Fallout 3 is "great" then i'm pushing for a Renaissance of "average" right about now, my friend.

this isn't about being "right". you were trying to tell me that my reasons for debate should be based on some abstract idea that sales somehow are able to measure the integrity of a product, which is a faulty argument. then you tried to tell me that i think what i think because i believe Fallout 3 is a bad game, which i don't. it's a great game for people who want exactly what they got out of it. but there's a whole bunch of us who didn't get what we got from the originals. hence, the divide. no. my opinion means nothing more than any other opinion. that's the nature of opinions.

*buzzzzzzzz!* wrong answer. i think FO3 is a great game. it's just not a great Fallout game. it's a horrible Fallout game. and this is where the "if x = Fallout then let x = a, b, and c" arguments come from. and please. stop with the sales angle. because unless you think the poor, the tired, the huddled masses are a great way of measuring the worthiness of artistic integrity, then stop.

when did i EVER say anything remotely close to this. when have any of the countless threads since the 20th of April been focused on such a concept? @mkreku: lulz. you're kind of ignoring the whole sales do not equal quality concept in spades, man.

well good for you. glad we can entertain you, but don't act like it pains you so if you keep coming back for more. as for the second part of the post: re-read what i just wrote. we're NOT playing Bethie's version. we're hoping Obsidian, Sawyer and Co. will deliver us something we will want to pay for and play. and again, that's why we're here. all you're doing is complaining about the complainers (something that your home at Bethie would slap your wrist for) and antagonizing. so, yeah. go you.

yeah, right? there's only one opinion over there and they all told me to say it here! wheeeee! here's an idea: please don't patronize me. here's another: you're spending time here too. but for what end? to tell us to grow up, accept what's given to us, and give up hope? the hell kind of life are you proposing here, jack? @mkreku: why wouldn't it?

the heck does this have to do with ANYTHING??? what we don't like is our favorite franchise being stomped on. so yeah. we won't play it, we're not currently playing it and we're hoping Obsidian does justice to the title. that's why we're here talking. why exactly are you here? @skuld: what i am saying is that sales have nothing to do with the inherent quality of any given piece of art since the beginning of time. nor will it ever.

wtf is the deal with you people and your interwebs sales figures?! who cares?? how can that possibly figure into the inherent quality of something? Christina Aguilera sold more records in her time than the Velvet Underground, who sold very little in their time but have gone on to become one of the most highly revered and influential rock and roll bands of all time. again, what the effing eff do sales have to do with anything other than some silly e-peen measuring attempts in strawman arguments??

no. more likely they said "let's do something different." which was the point Mikael was making.

no, i didn't bother reading a single word of it because i don't give two ****s about the link or why you decided it makes a difference in any of our lives. right. you know what? congrats, you just made the ignore list. i'm tired of reading your forum-LARP'ing.

in a good way or bad way? ahh, MoTB. i wish we could get a Fallout game which looks like that. i really like the way (for the most part) The Witcher handled the aurora engine. *sigh* a guy can dream, no? one thing i really do wish we'd find out sooner than later is that MCA will be lending a great big helping hand to FO:NV.

not particularly ardent, eh (you still used the M!) care to elaborate? just curious is all. i feel like it'd be impossible not to kowtow to the man for creating some of the deepest character/dialogue/backstories of all time. this is not to say i hold him (or anyone) in such regard as to ignore his/their lesser qualities or say he/they're without faults. regarding Obsidian and KOTOR2 in the light of FO:NV right now though...you're right. it did have a splendid atmospheric quality. but it also had a splendid feeling of "holy crap this game musta been rushed like the devil himself was cracking the whip!" i am very wary in keeping my hopes in check right now. i fear we may see the same thing.

Brios is who you're thinking, not Briareus, which is what the link puts on top. i have no clue who the guy who the link goes to is.

well said. i agree with everything except for the "loved FO3" part (though i did like it well enough as a game...just not as a Fallout game). i especially agree with this. i searched for the ignore function earlier and couldn't find it.

*uses restraint* can we just move on? i don't want to get banned from this site and i already got the finger waved at me today.

banned for double-posting.

just trying to figure out what position you're playing, homer.

what is a good game in Gromnir's world? i can't for the life of me figure out your angle here. you have thousands of posts though, so you must at least think you have an angle. right, and they're strawmanning too. doesn't make what you said any less of a strawman, though. there is certainly weight to the argument that there was a shift of gaming style when next-gen consoles began taking over the market.