TwinkieGorilla

hey man, i completely agree. that's what bugged me. people (mainly FO3 apologists) are constantly trying to peg me for a "hater" as if i'm this one-dimensional guy with a one-dimensional outlook on the game. i actually really like a whole lot of stuff about that game, no joke. but my whole thing...one of the posts which set this mess off was that i refuse to buy that "visual storytelling" as a viable replacement for written storylines, dialogue, quests, choices, consequences, all that stuff which the genre has always meant. Bethesda has added this awesome sandbox element to it for sure..but how long can you play in an empty sandbox?

oh well, i don't know. maybe i'm not. it just seemed like you were defending Bethesda's inability to meld words with pictures...unjustly. i understand you have to play nice, but your sarcastic defense just reminded me of the attitudes of the Bethesda devs...who, irl, may be the coolest people ever...but on the boards...i don't know. they just rubbed me the wrong way. trust me man, i shouted at NMA that i HAVE to believe you (for that hometown love) and stuff. i'm just a reactionary guy, really. (edited key prefix necessary to post!)

nope. i wasn't saying that, i'm not saying that, and it wasn't the point. i think you know this though. (no, malcodor, i'm not tight with him. he just went to school where i was born is all. it was jokes.)

oh believe me, man. i think i over-reacted with hope when the news was announced and reality's starting to set back in. i didn't think i'd see Sawyer swimming in the Fox River though, tbh (that's a joke only he's likely to get. us ex-Appletonians we tight like that).

getting a bad feeling is fickle? not the definition i'm aware of.

hahahaha, i started actually quoting people and then i noticed how many more posts i had to go to get to the end, gave up, read Pop's post, agreed and said "screw it." also, for the record: Kaji, my argument is not a strawman and if you really want to dance i'm ready to spin in circles. also, Sawyer, no offense man...but you're starting to lose what faith i had left in this project. you're starting to sound like a Beth dev. you do realize that Mise en Scene isn't the argument, right? i hope you're just being errr..."contrary" for the sake of it and not...ugh. no. i don't even want to think you've got the hook, line and sinker in yr mouth. Edited for, um, words.

i wasn't avoiding the language filter. i use that word at every forum i'm at, regardless of language filters. it's Irish slang. but if it floats your boat, go ahead and pretend it's something else. *shrugs*

same here. i'm just saying it can't simply be used to justify a lack of traditional storytelling everywhere else.

that wasn't my point and you know it (at least i hope, for your sake). you've got a personal issue with me, fine. just ignore my posts, i ain't gonna continue to interwebs-fight with you. sure, sure. prop placements were fine and fun. but again, calling them "storytelling" is, imo, b.s. they were great little bits of "wow, cool. i wonder what happened here." and i love them. the couple with the morphine (read: heroin) on the nightstand? great stuff. but to call it anything more than atmosphere enhancement is stretching. sorry, just how i feel. FO3's main story was a joke and no amount of prop-placement can make up for it...regardless of Bethesda's ability to do it often and well.

lulz. i hate that argument. i'm sorry, but that is NOT "storytelling." it's atmosphere enhancement and every game should have it regardless of story. it should not appear in lieu of an actual well-planned and written storyline. trying to argue that graphical dumps like that are the story is the laziest bunch of b.s. i've ever heard.

you're still playing that game and you're reading through this thread? dude. the shame's on you. and i thought all the FO3 fans didn't play for the story anyway? don't worry, you can still wander around aimlessly, play dress up and decorate your house.

awesome shizzy as usual Gizzors!

lulz. glad somebody got my joke/reference.

don't ask me what i was doing or why...just know that i drank and smoked a whole lot in order to make FO3 bearable. and a lil' bonus:

...but for the Fremen whose eyes have gone blue from the spice, armed only with a crysknife and riding the back of a the mighty Shai-Halud, you must find your way to....find your father and purify the water? awww, man.

Good Lord, man. Why? maybe because it's the only point in FO3 where Bethesda successfully tricks you into thinking the character you build will make any sort of difference? they should mod in a giggling Todd Howard character who says "just keeeeding! we don't want you to get upset, you can do anything!" right before you leave the vault.

maybe it's the bourbon, but i actually cannot figure this post out. is there a [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] placement i'm missing? well...not quite the point, imo. cRPG's were an attempt at emulating the PnP experience onto a computer. quite literally. so when comparing cRPG's to each other, it's only natural to cite PnP style gaming.

no. you got your wish in this regard on your home turf. fair's fair. no. but nice try, trolly. sure, i thought that was pretty great. i was hella excited when i first started playing the game. everybody thought i'd be the first person to smash the DVD into itty bitty pieces, and here i was playing for 5 straight hours, skipping work, and loving it. ONLY PROBLEM...is that after Megaton, you've basically seen the game. that is to say, all you get from there on out is some fairly creative copypasta. if Bethie had kept me peaked the way i felt (dialogue not withstanding) from the intro and shortly past Megaton (i.e. if Megaton was Junktown and there was actually more to see on a larger scale from there) i'd have a bit less to complain about (however, none of this solves my greatest complaints (busted-ass SPECIAL and horrible dialogue)). i disagree. you'll (knowing you) attempt to argue this, but it's such an obvious argument when one game is an FPS, iso games...like PnP games require the cooperation of the player's imagination and the games resources. personal preference? maybe. i guess i got into cRPG's before FPS existed, so it just never seemed necessary to the genre to me. anyway, i think they all did a pretty great job of this. i have no complaints or praises for either camp more than the other.

which is, quite frankly, something FO1 executed perfectly. you were a confused lad/lassie walking out into the world for the first time, seeing how civilization above ground had been faring. you went from the sterile to the raw and it was exciting to meet people and see how humanity, when left to their own devices, eked a living in such a world. sure there were factions but damned if they didn't remain mysterious and impossible to join. in FO1 the BOS was more a "wtf are these nutty wankers all about?" than "OMG BIG GUNZZORS AWESOME I CAN HAS POWER ARMORS LET ME JOIN???" i certainly get why Bethie used up every last idea the original devs thought of, though. on the one hand they figured they'd be damned if they "went too far" from beloved canon of the hardcore fan-base (yet in doing so, hilariously stepped on their own feet...losing some major cred-points by not coming up with a single original idea) and on the other hand they must have thought "well, these are such great ideas...we don't have to spend the time coming up with our own ideas...these are tried and true. all we have to do is shine 'em up and introduce them to the "lol'sploshun" crowd and we've got some major greenbacks in our pocket. (and before the Bethie fanboys/girls say "oh, but Todd and Emil and Todd's grandma and his cat all love Fallout, they really wanted to do this game, etc" let me just say "hey. i freakin' love the Velvet Underground but i ain't out there in a VU cover-band. my own music is certainly influenced by them...but hell if i'm going to try and BE them." just because you like something doesn't mean you're the right person for the job. and i can't think of a better example to prove my point than FO3...it's just such an epic example of "yeah, errr...you guys kinda missed the point, eh?")

i'd imagine so, judging from Sawyer & Avellone's involvement with past Fallout stuffs and Obsidian's usual style of RPG's i'd at the very least assume it will be focused much more on dialogue than FO3.

lulz. same here. well, you certainly got your wish!

No, they're hyper-sensitive and have very hyper-sensitive rules determined by the personalities of the mods and their interpretation of said corporate rulesets. most of the time i got warnings i was completely caught off guard. at one point i was temp-banned for making a joke about Canada (while having made it known i was actually dating somebody from Toronto and couldn't possibly have been disparaging). some times it's obvious, but they've got some insanely strict bid'ness over there. it actually became an incredibly difficult game trying to figure out just HOW to post critically without getting warned to death. *drumroll.......and here we have the eyeroll*

lulz indeed! ok, you win.

guessing you never went through a PnP phase, eh? Lawful Evil would figure out a way of getting that candy (if that candy meant that you would gain wealth, power, or some other greater gain) even if it meant teaming up with the nanny to obtain the candy, because...you never know, they may become useful to you later on. Neutral Evil would use the nanny to get the candy (most likely by promising the nanny a cut), then kill the nanny and keep the candy. Chaotic Evil would just kill the baby and take the candy. or something like that.

which sucks and is extremely strange to me. it sucks because i'm a good enough guy in real life...y'know? holding doors for lil' ol' ladies an' stuff. but what i'm probably never going to be is a goddamn soulless bounty hunter for Jabba the Hutt. i mean, c'mon. just let me be rewarded and punished for being that guy the same as any other alignment. why do video-games have to instill their own set of morals? that's pretty limiting and insulting to the imaginations of role-players everywhere. and it's extremely strange because...well, let's admit it: how many rpg-nerds think characters like Boba Fett are the bees knees, amirite? i mean...damn. i hereby petition for Lawful Evil to be a viable method of role-playing in FO:NV, dammitall.