Nightshape

I was talking about Obsidian... The posts got confused. I can see how you read it like that. If you took the original Splinter Cell and compared it to Alpha Protocol, I think you'd find them to be fairly even. The Splinter Cell series has had many iterations to hone their craft. And even if the gameplay is much better, the writing has never stacked up. I also don't see what the criticism is about the AP voice work. It seems pretty great to me. Is Dues Ex AAA? I think that is a better comparison. DX had average graphics and average game play. You're comparing AP to previous generation games. The problem is Splinter Cell was made 8 years ago, and Deus Ex 10 years ago, comparing the results to a game just released is wrong. Especially when the results are comparable to games of a previous generation of technology. Deus Ex was in its day a AAA title, and I also wouldn't say that it had average graphics, and average gameplay for a title of that era. Technology isn't everything, but gameplay is, and that's my worry... Obsidian seem to be ignoring the fact that games are supposed to be games first. If you boil down AP, the gameplay isn't great, and its held up by the story telling, and not the underlaying game. Visually below average, interactivity is clunky... Just extremely unpolished. AAA basically means, big budget, with high production values. AP doesn't have high production values, it's full of "it'll do", and "It's functional" moments.

I was talking about Obsidian... The posts got confused. I can see how you read it like that.

Not at all. They atleast delivered some quality writing.

The quality of the artwork is what makes it shoddy... The lack of tight slick gameplay... I could go on but I have another thread where I'm on about this stuff. Just about everything in AP is sub par, and all you need to do is stand it next to a true AAA title to see that. AP feels cheap, after ME2 and Splinter Cell... Because, yes, I expected that level of focus.

Nothing is ever perfect, but there is a certain level of expected polish that Obsidian have NEVER delivered. I love the ambition, but I'm very worried about how the studio operates internally.

Ouch, there's no need to be that defensive, I was just honestly asking since you were less than clear. I wasn't meaning to be rude. I wasn't clear.

Ouch, that's harsh. Ok, it's probably harsh, because I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that Obsidian has lots its credibility as a developer because of AP, or that AP isn't worthy of an AAA dev? Also, you say that you do the same with any game... does it mean you basically tell anyone to avoid every game? Witty, much? Yes, I don't believe that Obsidian could be considered a AAA dev, and that AP is the reason for that, but they've screwed up so many times. The feeling that I've gotten about Obsidian from fellow developers is that they're "always going to, F**K IT UP!". Three games now, don't get me wrong I enjoied NWN2 + XP's but it was some horrible software. I'm enjoying AP to an extent, and I love the opening for KOTOR 2. And to be specific if I play a game I think is bad, and people ask my opinion, which they do in the office, I say what I think, and when I spoke about AP, I gave my honest opinion. That is was ugly, and clunky as a game. Good story and RP stuff, voice acting isn't ace.

That review is spot on... Everything in it is true!

I picked up AP, I don't feel shafted in any way, shape or form. When asked about it, I will obviously tell people to avoid it, as Obsidian in regards to this outing, have stopped being a AAA team. In other words, I've been saying people should avoid it. I do the same with any game.

Here's the fundamental problem. The "real life" style you talk about has a catch. It dramatically increases the alienation effect. In other words, immersion is easily destroyed. The more "surreal" the art style is, the more the player can cope with the visuals. The game play needs to reflect the "real" of which you speak. Therefore, the fact that you have a RPG with its clearly unnatural mechanics/mode of play and an art style that is "real" as opposed to "surreal", the flow is easily ruined. It is much harder to make an immersive game when the mechanics and art style require much more polish and attention to detail. AP might end up being a risk that didn't pan out as some would have otherwise hoped. It's not unusual in this industry. In trying to attain some kind of "real life", "uncanny valley" look, Heavy Rain is perhaps the best example that springs to mind, AP doesn't even come close to nailing "real life", its leaning more towards cartoon real life if anything. Could go into spoiler territory regarding Heavy Rain. This is your warning. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Completely disagree. Many of the animations in Heavy Rain pushed the impressive character models in Heavy Rain into the "uncanny valley". If you received this section in the end, where Norman Jayden is on a television program, and his hands/arms are spazzing out like he's trying to spin a record. And don't forget Ms. Lauren Winters: member of the "uncanny valley". Oh, and we shall not forget the love scene, especially when kissing is involved. And let's also not forget when Ethan Mars put his shirt back on after the love scene. The shirt moved like a solid brick and had no fabric/material light weight to it. Heavy Rain was real life without the style (save for some scenes like the club scene). And while the character models had a lot of detail, they often animated in absolutely awful ways. I haven't even mentioned animation in Alpha Protocol or Heavy Rain... I was merely speaking about art. Just because Heavy Rain is the best example I can bring to mind, doesn't mean it hasn't got it's own bag of issues, but compared with AP, I believe it has a consistant and more professional art direction, considering that both games are supposed to be emulating "Real Life". From a story perspective, I am finding Alpha Protocol to be extremely entertaining, and the fact that most of Rome isn't exploiting the poorly implemented shooting mechancis this means I am happier. It's still visually trapped in the previous generation though... I've taken the time to take a closer look at the texture work, high frequency and noisey textures always compress badly, and the texture in AP compress badly for those reasons. Also lots and lots of low resolution textures, I'd hazard to say that there are some 64x64 and 128x128's and some of the larger props, but there is noise everywhere, throughout the game, and the result is so spangley that I wouldn't be surprised if it was the bad art, not playing well with the DXT compression which has resulted in the single and two tone art direction in a hope that nobody would notice. So where were we... Ah yes... Art Direction - Fail Gun Mechanics - Fail Texturing - Fail Story - Win I'm sure I'll have more comments as the weeks pass, and I haul my butt through this game.

Alpha Protocol...

Yes, Ted. Rare... But I agree with you somewhat.

Here's the fundamental problem. The "real life" style you talk about has a catch. It dramatically increases the alienation effect. In other words, immersion is easily destroyed. The more "surreal" the art style is, the more the player can cope with the visuals. The game play needs to reflect the "real" of which you speak. Therefore, the fact that you have a RPG with its clearly unnatural mechanics/mode of play and an art style that is "real" as opposed to "surreal", the flow is easily ruined. It is much harder to make an immersive game when the mechanics and art style require much more polish and attention to detail. AP might end up being a risk that didn't pan out as some would have otherwise hoped. It's not unusual in this industry. In trying to attain some kind of "real life", "uncanny valley" look, Heavy Rain is perhaps the best example that springs to mind, AP doesn't even come close to nailing "real life", its leaning more towards cartoon real life if anything.

Heh, even Mass Effect? Somewhat ironic given its one size fits all film grain filter application to cover up its visual quirks. Really though, why not at least pick a coherently, consistently and interestingly visual themed game like Bioshock (even Oblivion or Fallout 3 is a better example, art direction wise) for a comparison rather than Mass Effect whose art direction could not be more generic sci-fi if it tried? And buy Kaftan a beer sometime, he basically rescued your argument single handed. Until then I haven't seen a more confused critique of art direction for ages. Considering how tired I am at the moment, I'm not surprised I appear confused, the fact I can string togeather words is amazing. I was pointing at Mass Effect because it isn't stella in regards to art direction, but its better than AP, more tonal ranges that are sensible coupled with a complimentary pallete where the GUI is considered considered. Bioshock is a good example, I wouldn't disagree with you, and I was looking at Brink on basis that, love it or hate it, it certainly pushes its style into your face. Saudi Arabia is so painfully yellow... It's like the spinal tap of art direction. Turned upto 11, and it clashes so badly with the GUI, and this is the first true area the player encounters, it leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. Any detail that the environment artwork has is just steam rolled. It's so bad that pink become yellow, brown... Yellow... It's just an assualt of yellow. Now I have no issue with the yellows, but the tonal range is so tight, that from a rendering perspective everything is flat despite the existance of some subtle normal mapping on surfaces, its like welcome to box land. Everything is so painfully cheap when it comes to the polycount, the actual rendering lighting, sorry... LACK of lighting, is hidden behind this one blat of colour. Shadows are prebaked into the environments, the character shadows look like they may be stencil based but I haven't examined them in close detail. Now if we look at the core action gameplay and add that to its dull visual appearance we're not going to end up in a nice place. The general shooting mechanics are some of the worst I have experienced, they cripple the player, it ends up making more sense to run upto enemies and mash B, its more effective. While there has been an attempt to balance the this gameplay via typical and expected RPG mechanics, it fails to work, it hinders fun and makes combat a chore. That shouldn't be the case at all, if the intent is to effect accuracy so dramatically, then make the shots count for more, what I'm expecting as my experience progress's is that the core gunplay will actually end up being alot tighter as the character becomes more able. The problem is that the range between, playable, and where we start is so out of whack that it results in a broken game when you start out. Couple that with a poorly configured right thumb stick, which hasn't seen a curve, and you're even more borked. Fundementally the shooting is broken at its core by this. Movement should be based off gradual and sensible curves, the result in AP is so digital it's all or nothing. So far I would say: Art Direction - Fail Core Shooting Mechanics - Fail I'm most of the way through Rome at the moment. I'll expand as I continue.

Wait, aren't you the guy who worked on that crappy Operation Flashpoint sequel? So much for taking steps backward. Never touched OFP. I haven't even played it.

It should be a correction based gradiant map. A kind of look up table, this stuff is just plain sloppy on Obsidian's part. I've followed these guys for years, and this really is a step backwards for them as a developer, its sad.

Except its too strong and spanks any dynamism within the scene. A result of a bad approach to colour grading. I just find this whole situation sad... AP isn't a triple A title.

Look at the game it speaks for itself. Try comparing it to something else with strong art direction, like say Brink, heck even Mass Effect.

It's terrible art direction.

After a few more hours all I can say for sure is: Yellow is not an art direction, making everything yellow is stupid and uninspired.

So I've just spent an hour or so with AP... I can't say if it is good or bad as an overall experience, but there are certainly some very weak elements. Firstly it looks like you guys had a huge production team! Seriously, just taking a look at the credits, so many producers is just plain nuts. There is a serious lack of art direction or artistic ambition in the product. I'm not an artist but I can certainly tell that the product has suffered greatly by not having a strong visual vision. While GFX's aren't everything, words like bland, and generic spring to mind in regards to the colour palette. Then again I don't see anyone credited as art director, it shows. There is just something not right with the rendering.... Looks like everything is using the same damn shader pretty much... What can I say, it seems like it was produced on the cheap... I'll post more later, but I'd be seriously interested in what went wrong. It seems like this game had an extremely painful development cycle. It's sad to see you guys produce something with such obviously low production values.

Certain its fake. Some good guesses though.

About time... Been waiting for this since I was 13.

And here I was thinking I'd made a funny!