Nightshape

One of those few occasions I agree with Volo.

Oscuros is ok, but really just install the nehrim total conversion and save yourself a lot of misery about being forced to play a crap game designed by cretins. http://www.nehrim.de/indexEV.html By playing crap designed by even bigger cretins?

That was XCOM: UFO Defence, in the UK it was known as Enemy Unknown

When in doubt? Smash ones face against a wall until unconcious!

I do... Why? oooh! My understanding is that both UFO Defense and Terror From the Deep are both played in DOSBox. What I am wondering is, if they still include all the original files, and if so, there should be something like the install program INSTALL.EXE or something like that that lists what type of sound or music card you own and can select what one you have. Similar to Ultima VII: The Black Gate: Basically what I want to know is if there is a Roland MT-32 and/or LAPC-1 option to change the music for both games (in this Steam version). I physically own 2 MT-32's (Old Style and New Style) and have slowly been making recordings of some of these classic games that have MT-32 music and would love to add these 2 games music to my YouTube channel. If you could check for me I would greatly appreciate it!!! I believe its just the original game running through dosbox. Here is the screen - Looks like no roland support.

Ebert's not a gamer, this is like asking a blind man if a movie is art? What do you think they'd say... Interesting read all the same. Edit: You won't find the quote it was off a private forum.

I do... Why?

Video games as art is something I've spoken to many about... I personally think some games are works of art, specifically the first I can recall and be 100% certainly that I felt and experienced it as art, is Another World. I may be alone in that. The best opinion I've come across so far though, and I love it... I think it cuts to the very core. "Art will never be games. F*** them."

Plays,music, movies, they all unfold before the audience. Games are the only medium which requires active participation from the spectator, they are also not judged in term of aesthetics but on performance. Games are closer to being a sport; since there already are championships, than an art. The experience does unfold infront of the Audience. Saying any different seems crazy to me. You are correct that multiplayer gaming, is more sport than art, in which I agree. That doesn't mean that games as a whole aren't art, it just means some aren't. As I said earlier. There may be lower forms of art or higher, the point it's that they all are part of a medium that it's art. Games; no matter how evocative, are not an artistic medium. When you can tell me why not we'll continue this conversation. This isn't a response, its you saying "Games aren't art, because I say so". Games are a genuine artistic medium, hell, one could even argue that even the cheapest nastiest mass market games like CoD have artistic points in their narrative, its bad art, its even crass, but its art, alot of it exists purely for that purpose. Environmental arrangements that tell stories, interactive story sequences, etc... etc... There are alot of elements to games, but to say they're not Art? May aswell join Volo and state for something to have any artistic merit, and be art, it has to be a picture... It may be draw with my own piss, fecal matter, and ****, a demonstration of the bodily fluids streamed across a piece of paper, and that alone is what makes art art. *sigh* The sad eventual result of a tiny mind. So yeah, please offer up an arguement as to why games are most certainly not art, because the process of creating the experience, well... I'd say that's art, and if you've ever felt anything playing a game, I'd say its succeeded. Something that I agree on, I would like to see it happen without it necessitating to be art regardless. The fact it's that what its holding the industry back is 2 things; first there isn't a model for writing for games. Most writers come from a different medium and fail to account the fact that games are interactive, simply putting dialog and creating a setting it's not enough. There it's a very pervasive element to dialog when you want actions and get info dumping instead. The second one would be the immaturity of the audience and the lack of supportive publishers. I see this as the same problem because it has the same result, the M ratings are for boob obsessed teenagers and has nothing to do with actual maturity. The mandatory romantic interest, the same twists, plots and settings. The publishers treat games as a business because that's their business, and they are going to keep pushing crap because crap it's what sells. This it's the #1 reason that games are not art, because everyone making that claim will go out and buy a bunch of blockbuster crap and never ask for more artistic games. They all take art at face value, and it's becoming a ****ing buzz word. I don't think Lady Gaga is art, or whatever this weeks blockbuster is... These types of games, the call of duties of this world, they're the same... They're all the same. But is Limbo not artistic, or Another World? What about Planescape : Torment... Ico? I could go on. From what I've experienced of Portal 1, I don't know about Portal 2, I'd say that has some artistic elements, and infact asks the gamer to be creative, while wooing them with dark humour. A blockbuster is a blockbuster, it may be fun, but usually I find the experiences empty. This is why I can sit here and say "HL 2 was a chore", it was an empty confused experience in my eyes. Developers don't treat games as just business, sometimes they have to, especially the larger ones, but not all. Publishers on the otherhand, they don't make anything... They're the same as a record label or a movie studio like say paramount. Crap sells, because people are told that this crap is must have crap, and they must have this particular crap... The problem is the system, not the games themselves... Most of the best games, don't do well commercially, they do have a massive influence on what others do mind. There are concepts in games design, which imitate concepts you find in art, such techniques spread through genres, same as techniques have spread through the art world. I think games still have a way to go, its a young industry, which has had moments of brilliance, and shown some artistic integrity. I hope that over the next 10-20 years I'm proven right, and games become considered art, by everyone, in the same way movies, music and such other forms of entertainment are... Am I so wrong for wanting more from games?

Ok let's put it this way, the number one reason that videos aren't art it's because they are competitive and their measure it's not based in aesthetics. Making games may have artistry, all of the artistic pipeline of making the characters and the environments. Playing games has no art whatsoever to it, therefore games are not art because they are interactive. I don't think that anyone is claiming playing games are art, but you're experiencing art when you do... I sit firmly in the art camp, but I would say that not all games are art - Call of Duty isn't art, in the same way the latest hollywood blockbuster isn't art, or the latest crappy pop tune to surface from the bowels of commercial hell or lady gaga's decrepid man muff, or the picture I drew of a turd with a pen and some postits. But there are games which are art, they are emotive, and they take us on genuine emotional journeys. That is simply opinion, the fact is, in order to cover more subject matter, and I really hope games start to... We're struggling with sex, and relationships, darker grittier things also, but in order to start pushing into those realms of creation, games have to be considered art, if only to be secure in a legal fashion, be that you believe it or not.

Well, your opinion, and truth ain't the same thing Volo. I know that to you it seems that way, but there are other people with other opinions, like them or not. And sadly you saying "Games are not art", isn't an arguement, that's you speaking gob****e. And the reason why video games being considered art is a good thing, be that you agree or not, has more to do with the kind of subject matter they can cover. And the only reason I can see Morgoth would troll you by calling you stupid, is, because, yet again Volo... You've demonstrated stupidity.

The idea offends me.

When a game plays badly that's bad code...

Basically I'm trying to say playing any of the HL series of games is like an unpleasant household task. Something you have to do, but you take no joy in its repetative dull nature. Tale, like many people in the world, disagree's with me, and hence my discord should be quashed with ridiculous insults.

Introduce a challenge. Present that challenge again later with an additional element or elements. Repeat. It seems so simple. Its a chore. You're a chore.

Introduce a challenge. Present that challenge again later with an additional element or elements. Repeat. It seems so simple. Its a chore.

Oh come on, admit it you weren't pretending were you.

I think its time for me to pack up and leave. Scotland beckons! Anywhere that will bloody take me, and give me a games industry job! And no, I won't be heading to Scotland... I'll be leaving this island.

I think its time for me to pack up and leave.

Yep, thank you. I didn't realise there was that much work in eastern europe that was technology related. All's said, yep, talented folks have no problems finding jobs, and I would expect that if people are willing to move country etc... They'd find jobs in the game industry.

I'm not certain what you're saying... graphics designers? huh? I am confused. Yes, these people exist, even though this term isn't used in the game industry. Yeah I know, but none of it made sense, and I know Mamoulian War usually makes sense in his posts... Frankly, it looks like he wrote the post in mentalese. I am merely desiring more clarity.

I'm not certain what you're saying... graphics designers? huh? I am confused.

Sounds like the faces are a big reason why. Yeah, lots of animated textures... Think 2D animation on 3D meshes... Texture data is expensive. Are you telling me these are just animated gifs slapped on a model? Please... That's actual mesh that is moving. I never mentioned gifs. Its actually a combination, and its captured from the actors. Its a moving mesh, ala Mass Effect for example, coupled with streamed texturesm using tech from http://depthanalysis.com/ I believe. That's what I heard anyways... Point being is its not all mesh data, there are texture elements too.

Sounds like the faces are a big reason why. Yeah, lots of animated textures... Think 2D animation on 3D meshes... Texture data is expensive.

I miss the days of 6'8" Italian Warlord... Something like that... 'Obyknven/LoF' is one of those new breed of trolls, that actually reply to keep trolling, its weak man! WEAK!