Morgoth

So, and now what was this whole arguing all about?

Maybe because it looked stupid when a henchman got killed by a squirrel. Balance was always a weird thing in the Gothic games... Edit: Oh and Gothic fans are no less moronic than let's say ES or Bio fans. They "demand" certain features and declare it as a canon. I don't now what outrage PB would have had to endure when hey just have left the Henchmen out. For their next game (let's pray it's not G4) I hope they better learn from their failures. They're lucky they didn't end up like Troika....yet. That I've never denied. They're useful to purge some enemies, but the question was whether they function as NWN2 NPCs, and that clearly would be a "no".

Options that don't matter. G3 lacks of focused design. PB could also have let the henchman out and use that time for bugfixing instead... but alas, some devs always have to learn it through the hard way.

That's not a fair comparison. Graphics is required in both cases, but NPCs/Henchman or whatever you want to call them are design decisions. You let the G3 henchman away, you won't miss them. You let the NWN2 henchman away, the game drops into mediocre. I never really realized why PB insisted of having the henchman inside in the first place when they mostly make problems (getting stuck, AI problems etc.). They just could also leave them out. See? No importance at all. We won't miss them.

Oh come on Volo, why do you whine so much about it? I mean we all know G3 and NWN2 have followers, they're just different, so don't fight it.

Meh, I don't have the time and patience for such games.... Maybe one day when I'm getting old, boring and senile you'll remind Uncle Morgoth of picking up a copy, will ya? Wait, what was that thread about again?

EU3 huh? Never played those games. How historically accurate are they? Am I able to cheat a little bit? Because I want to turn Imperial Vienna into the World biggest sausage supplier instead of playing as a ruler.... this would make so much more fun and action! (w00t)

You're clearly missing the point Volo. It's not how you call them, but the importance, and what the designers intend to do with them. Comparing G3's followers with those of a party-based game (that was designed that way) just leads to more misunderstandings and dig in qualities of CRPGs that don't want to be compared with those which are popular (i.e. D&D). Unfortunately, people tend to compare every single feature on a checklist (see reviewer sites and the inevitable comparisons with Oblivion) and then decide whether the game sucks or not. But Gothic 3 doesn't want to be NWN2, and vice versa. I don't miss NPC interaction in G3 the way it is handled like in NWN2, thus they're not critical.

Hell Kitty wins! Volo loses! (again)

You mean the prestige class? Oh well that's why...

It's like with the Red Army: If one MMORPG player dies, one thousand will follow! So cheer up people!

Well, that alone won't bring you far Sister Darque! It actually needs a lot of work and expertise to get the rigged models properly from one game into another.

Well, a few years ago when I was a nerdier RPG player, I'd have said "That's true freedom!", but that's just not case in reality. I guess that's the "issue" with quest-based games: The devs have to create tons of content and the connections are insanely complex, and you only get to see a piece of it. No time or motivation to replay it, either. So it's clearly understandable that more devs are forced to make the design more "slimmed down" with all the rising costs. It's even a wonder the NWN2 OC turned out to be 50-60 hours long, something I wouldn't even expect from Bioware.

Well, with the Source SDK which is free if you own any Valve game like HL2, CS:S or whatever. Getting the Bloodlines art assets into a HL2 mod is as easy as making pancake then.

Aye, what Sister Darque said. Too bad however that the term "epic" too often gets mismatched with "big, large, long". "Epic", as long narrative shouldn't be applied to Oblivion, either. BG2 is truly epic, but Oblivion is just...well, large.

Henchman, lackeys, dogs, party members.... all semantics. They're as important as the designers want them to be. It's all about focus. G3 henchman aren't critical, but they're helpful as allies to purge the woods. Bread baking in the Ultima games isn't critical either, but it's in and adds to the atmosphere. But it's still not the focus of the game. NWN2's henchman however are important to the design, therefor they're critical. Maybe not to the game mechanics, but to the atmosphere and for the quests sake.

Oh well, still had G3 from the other thread in my mind....how embarrasing. :D

Admit it or not, but NWN2 wouldn't be so enjoyable without the NPCs, not to mention the loss of many quests. Gothic3 is a "Loner in the Woods" game, even with dogs running behind you. They're not important as henchman, more like an additional tool to help you to purge the woods from enemies.

You're wrong. Gothic3, while not using classic D&D conventions like classes and overloads of stats, isn't structured like an action game. It's an RPG, simple as that, that stands on it's own foots, not matter whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

They're only henchman..heck, not even that. More like the Diablo2 lackeys. The joinale NPCs in NWN2 are critical, in case of Shandra even critical to the plot, but Gothic was always designed as the "Loner in the Woods" fashion.

Oblivion for best Story? What a joke. But then again, I don't give a rats ass what Internet sites think. Dreamfall deserved the "Best Story" award imo, as well as "Best Main Character" and best "Artistic design". NWN2 didn't quite live up to my expectations (too much annoying aspects like the Castle, the never ending mass battles and the rather mediocre story). Too bad Gothic 3 didn't get the "Best music" award.

Except Axel was never in Blacklake. He's always been in Merchant's District. And that's still there. His hideout may not be marked on the map in Chapter III, but it's still there. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahh, yes. Okay, it was the Merchant disctrict. Never found the mark there however, that's why I thought he must be in Blacklake. Oh well, I think I'm getting old.... And yes, I occupied the tower with the NW9, and I think I even got an armor from Nasher or his lackey before, but never could use it (?). Overall, I think Act 3 ist the weakest part in NWN2, since all quests are dedicated to prepare the castle from the assault and find the villains. Like I'm playing Medieval 2 here....

Regarding the armour, didn't you get both the weapon smith and the armour smith? Add to that 1 Dancer, Deekin, A dark elf merchant, Sal the barkeeper, two miners, the farmer from west harbour (the one who complained wbout the cheater with the enlarged pig). I'm not very good at remembering names <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah I got the dancer. Deekin? Too late, I already employed that dark elf merchant from Luskan. Sal the Barkeeper, sure, he was just there. The two miners, checked. The pig farmer? How? West harbor was a wastland. And again. I got every building occupied, but only had that weapon smith available. I swear I checked the map but never found anything else.

Ah thanks for some clues. Oh yes, and uhh...*Spoilers alert* Yes, I knew about that golem who got bothered by those two Succubus ladies. But that's about it. I never really traveled with Grobnar except for that silly Whaterwhatever creatures, which turned out to be a flop. I already convinced the Ironfist's and the lizardmen to fight on my side. But Axel? I swear he was in the Blacklake district the whole time, it was even marked on the map before. But then that district (same goes for Owls Well) wasn't accessible on the world map anymore. Hmmm....Either way, can't find those buggers when the place vanishes on the map. And I knew about the weapons, but I never found an option to improve the armor. Oh well, nonetheless I pushed the foe back. Still, it hurts to read through these posts and realizing how many things I actually missed.... Damn. About time to replay it I guess. The most annoying thing however was that I only managed to conclude 2 of 3 trials for Kelghar. And what about Quara? She was my favorite Sorcerer of all times! Was there a quest available for her, like Neeshka and the others?

I even didn't realize how to improve other parts of the castle. I mean I got the Ore, which allowed me to upgrade my men's weapons to "Good". The training was "Very Good", but the moral was "Low". I also upgraded pretty much everything in the Keep, the fortification and the surroundings. But still I didn't get any Seargents (except Bevil), or any Armor Upgrades or a way to improve morality or armor (although I had a Blacksmith). There was also a quest in my journal to meet Axel, but I never found him. And what the heck is that about the golem? Dammit, I missed so many things.... Where and what was I supposed to do else?