Morgoth

You don't even seem to understand what the term "immersive" means. But then again, this is the most overrated word since video games exist anyway. " I think "getting lost" is more appropriate, and that can work with any type of game or view - it just depends how effectively it is implemented. Design >> Camera View.

Well I consider purchases by quality, not by some triviality like camera views. Unlike you, I don't try to plug games into genres, or determine whether having some ugly interface icons hovering on my peripheral vision is key for immersion or not. But that's maybe just me.

But that doesn't work properly in reality. I know some games (Thief: Deadly Shadows for example) that allow you to do that, but it just doesn't "feel" right. They just attached a camera somewhere at Garret's belly and thought they'd get away with that as "First Person View". First person view uses it's own camera angel and set of animations (movement, weapons etc), something you can't change "on the fly" so to speak. In the end, it comes down to the design. A stealth game where the level design is build up the way to support FPV only works that way properly, while Third person just doesn't make fun. Vice Versa, puzzle heavy games like Tomb Raider work better in Third person, but are incapable of deliver proper first person view (and who wants to anyway: Looking at Laras ass is a nice sight. Always).

Oh yes, no peripheral vision really makes the immersion feel like I am playing a "role." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah but mkreku got it right. Playing a role is playing a puppet. Crafting my own experience >> playing a puppet.

How melodramatic!

No No...not oder... Order has spoken.

Babelfish is overrated, as is Baley.

Well, put me on the list then.... In fact, just yesterday me and Jorian cracked some sturdy jokes about you, Lyranor. But I guess you don't want to hear that, so gotta go gotta go I guess. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um..I think Morgoth's joking at you, not with you, Jorian. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oder der Witz an der ganzen Sache ist das der Witz an dich gerichtet war?

Makes the shooting and blowing stuff up easier when auto-lock is activated huh?

And when it's a leap year, maybe even three times?

Not the other way around, Silly. NWN2 != FPS.

And BG2 felt like Command & Conquer because it was 2D.

Oh that's why... Everytime the Ogres made potato mash out of me, the subtitle "Quest blabla failed" showed up, so I thought it must be hidden somewhere there. Bandits are everywhere though. I just met a bunch who whined about "cowardly Goblins". Are those the ones?

Well just rewatched some of my DVD collection: Alien 1-4 Kingdom of Heaven (I still have to see the Director's Cut though) The New World Hanabi Samurai Fiction

Gothic 3. I love it, but I also hate it at the same time. But that's maybe just me.

Somebody already played Conquest: Frontier Wars? You know that a sequel is in development for some time but put on hold because no publisher can be found? And you certainly already know that you can download an Alpha of CFW2 legally? But I suppose that isn't news to you anymore, so just move along...

Well, put me on the list then.... In fact, just yesterday me and Jorian cracked some sturdy jokes about you, Lyranor. But I guess you don't want to hear that, so gotta go gotta go I guess. "

I'm just heading to Montera. I already killed one of those Cape Dun dragons (currently Level 6 char) but I got him with luck (i.e. I pushed him into a corner where he got stuck so I could kill him easily). Though I'm still struggling with those three Ogres. I want to conclude that "Search the 3 crates for that grumpy Orc...Uruk?). I guess they must be somewhere there.... Anyway, thanks to the new patch, the henchman now are a little more useful. That Cynax (? I never remember those names correctly) took out a snapper on his own...respect respect I must say. :D

You always sound so melodramatic when you express your opinion, Baley. Ever thought of getting a writer position for some game company? How about "RIS2 - Baley on Ice" describes the fall of the mighty Romanian Space empire through the eyes of Emperor Baley, who was shot into space and turned into a huge ice cube ("Baley on Ice") by angry Hungarians? PS: Oh and Jorian, that was a joke. Admittedly a very tasteless one, but I just feel like that today.

Oh well I must have missed that... but I've to ask you just for the sake of squeezing more fun out of this already hilarious thread: Where did I mention FPS couldn't be combined with RPGs? And how exactly would that work?

That depends totally on what kind of DM you have. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are DM-s who can make a game awesome without one fight the whole campaign. And there are those who can't do anything else than hack&slash, I don't play that kind of 'RPG' I prefer that this "PnP spirit" stays where it belongs to: PnP Roundtables in a dark cellar while playing sound scapes in the background and enjoying the stench of rotten pizza pieces and underarm-sweat. :'( Don't squeeze a prisma into a round hole where it doesn't belong to in the first place. Round holes are meant to be penetrated by cylinders... Games design wise, of course. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No insults needed. And I didn't say FPS-s or any other genre couldn't be combined with RPG, I just said the real feeling is somewhere between RPG-adventure game genres. My ultimate game would be a mix of RPG-Adventure-Strategy PS: And i definetly protest against the way you described pnp, i never ate anything rotten, and we play usualy in the main hall by me, or in the Office of my friends corporaton (sp?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well I didn't mean to insult you, because it was actually a joke. But my perception of PnP nerds is that such sessions are all about being together and enjoy the social part of it, not the game itself. Not with a video game, I don't want to socialize with a bunch of pixels, but getting entertained with nice gameplay and cool stories instead.

I prefer that this "PnP spirit" stays where it belongs to: PnP Roundtables in a dark cellar while playing sound scapes in the background and enjoying the stench of rotten pizza pieces and underarm-sweat. :'( Don't squeeze a prisma into a round hole where it doesn't belong to in the first place. Round holes are meant to be penetrated by cylinders... Games design wise, of course.

What I'm trying to say is that people think RPGs using D&D or any other abstract ruleset are intellectually superior to any other genre. That's just silly. NWN2 doesn't require me to feel, except of the stressful but yet dull combat. That's why I think good Action games or FPS/RPG hybrids involve me more than let's say NWN2.

That's true too Just look where I live <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I drink on you! Cheers!

I could ask the same, as you made no counter argument, you simply said you didn't agree. And if that counts as a amicable counter point, then I disagree with the point to which you disagree... and so on. Times infinity squared no backsies. <_< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Really? You should re-read my posts then. Don't get me wrong, some of your points are valid ("lack of exploration in games = bad"), but they have nothing to do with mental effort required to play games (which was initial point of this thread that Kalfear raised). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh well I'm already mentally strained with work and studies. Games should be relaxing and emotionally stimulating, not stressful. Just look at the newest bad example, Neverwinter Nights 2: The gameplay is repetitve, and combat (even with the famous D&D ruleset) just turns out to be a mess. Let the Gizerai chick cast spells automatically, let Quara throw 5 fire-meteors into the combat scene and Kelghar smash with his Axe.... I get the feel I don't need to do anything, except watching and waiting till the foe is dead. Hmmm....That's what I call is not emotiannly stimulationg, but well...