Lampros

Hmm, ok; how about Paladin/Rogue instead of Fighter/Paladin then? I want both of my front-liners to be able to simultaneously tank and DPS. Paladin/trickster is a very good offensive tank and can make also good use of the BotEP for AoE damage Ok, then my main will be Paladin/Trickster then. I am definitely going to start playing tonight - at last

Really?! You need two dedicated healers? No you don't. But it's nice to have an off-healer for emergencies. Something like a Paladin. Or maybe a Cipher, Pain Block is really good, too bad you can't cast it on yourself. Ah, ok. So not exactly two dedicated healers

Hmm, ok; how about Paladin/Rogue instead of Fighter/Paladin then? I want both of my front-liners to be able to simultaneously tank and DPS.

Thanks! Still a bit wary of estocs or battleaxes or anything that is single damage type though. I am a creature of habit, and PoE 1 habits die hard. What's the best 2H weapon? Hmm, your post also beg the same question I asked 1TTFSSE: Does the reach weapon-using mid-liner have to be a Wizard because of the access to the Citzal's lance? How would something like a Priest work, perhaps with multi-classing with Paladin or Chanter? The reason I ask is I want to see if my first PoE 2 group can resemble my PoE 1 group, and I want to save the Wizard as a pure Rod-using ranged DPS, just as in PoE 1. Also, does the Rogue sub-class have to be a Trickster for that tank to work? Best ranged dps that is a none ranger is definitely blunderbuss streetfighter/helwalker shadowdancer - I think you can find that build in the build list. It may be even better than the ranger variant actually. Midliner and reach weapon that is not wizard I would alas also go for a monk/x build using instruments of pain to convert any reach weapon or good melee weapon into a reach weapon. But it comes together quite late. Works well with those aoe melee weapons like Wohai, WoTeP etc to use them at a distance. other thjan monk you can use whatever else really like monk/priest, monk/barbarian etc. Or pure monk even if you want to get instruments of pain earlier. I couldn't find that build Most Shadowdancer builds seem melee there as well. Ah, ok; so it's basically Wizard hybrid or nothing. I am really conflicted. 3 spots in my first team is set (2 front-liner [something like Fighter/Paladin and Fighter/Rogue)] and 1 ranged bow or gun), but I am still unsure of the last 2 spot, which will be a mid-liner and another ranged. Basically, it comes down to whether I want the Wizard multi-classer to be the ranged or the Priest multi-classer to be ranged. Obviously, the one that doesn't become ranged will be the mid-liner.

Really?! You need two dedicated healers?

AoE weapons are for trash mobs, it doesn't matter what defense u target, you will not use it for a boss with 150+ fortitude defense anyway. Sungrazer is pretty good on a rogue, although it's on kill & on crit, the damage is pretty high, also aoe from the on kill proc can trigger that 5% chance effect too, so it's not as low as u imagine. Same as the soulbound dagger, it has a 10% chance AOE effect which can trigger itself. I don't fully agree that aoe weapons are for trash only. Maybe not very suited for major bosses (although I'd still use the same estocs - Eager Blade for Accuracy & Attack speed buffs, penetration and occasional doublestrike; Engoliero for attribute buffs, penetration and 10% raw lash), but they work in groups with tough mobs IMO. You focus on weakest/lowest HP mobs first and the aoe splashes progressively weaken the stronger ones. Yes, this was one of the many reasons why I didn't try Barbarian in PoE 1: AoEs do not help in the toughest battle. Of course, the biggest reason is that I don't like a class that conceptually must take HP damage to do more damage - not to mention that in Frenzy I cannot even tell how much HP I have myself.

Thanks! Still a bit wary of estocs or battleaxes or anything that is single damage type though. I am a creature of habit, and PoE 1 habits die hard. What's the best 2H weapon? Melee: 1A. Citzal's Spirit Lance Most consistent high dps if you can have it being a wizard or a wizard/x. Probably best with wizard/monk but wizard/zerker its really good too 1B. Amra and Lord Darryn's Voulge* LDV is at this tier on a barbarian only because carnage does apply the static charge on multiple enemies. Both weapons are easy to get and LDV can be upgraded very fast - but only to superior but on a barb it is still does excellent damage even as superior. Late game when you can upgrade AMRA to legendary that one may have a slight edge. 1C. Oathbreaker and Espirs as well as Wohai Poraga* The first two are Late game weapons I guess. In terms of damage, they do "bigger" bursts of damage than the above but are less consistent in overall dps. Wohai is a special case and is only at this tier on special riposte rogue/tank builds that want to become surrounded by enemies and then attack back when enemies miss you. But in such a build Citzals is still probably better on a Rogue/Wizard 2A. Voidwheel best single target 2h edging out amra late game in single target dps at the cost of aoe splash 2B. Effort - on certain suicide retaliation builds but Oathbreaker is I think better on those The rest are stopgaps Ranged: 1A Minor Blights* on a riposte wizard/rogue you can dual wield these with Tuotilio's Palm shield for great damage, oops this is not a two handed weapon though OK traditional 2 handed ranged weapons: 1A. option 1 Aamina's Legacy doesn't look spectacular but it is the most efficient at getting the job done as long as you can have the hunting bow fast modal active and hit (stack/increase accuracy) and have enough penetration (stack and increase penetration) 1A option 2 The Red Hand It's more bursty than the Hunting bow obviously - with +20% damage done it is equal to Aamina's Legacy in overall dps though minus rng. Also does not run into the penetration problems but may run into pierce immune problem. If you can stack the other enchantment on it - the +40% damage done/ damage taken one and not rest then yes it is the highest ranged dps weapon out there and will do 15-25% more dps than Aamina's depending on rng. A note on Frostseeker - yeah the best "aoe" two handed ranged weapon, but results of dps will be very much less spectacular than the above weapons unless you deliberately stack enemies all the time for the aoe splash damage. that said it depends on party setup and tactics, if you have a tank that locks down all the mobs around them like a swashbuckler this weapon is naturally a good idea to use if you are not going with the mortars. Wow, that's pretty comprehensive. Thanks! Two questions: First, is a reach weapon user as a mid-liner only good for a Wizard-based class? Can it work for a Priest-based class - albeit, I suppose, without a Citzal's lance? Second, what is the best multi-class combination for a ranged character who isn't going to be a Ranger? Hmm, your post also beg the same question I asked 1TTFSSE: Does the reach weapon-using mid-liner have to be a Wizard because of the access to the Citzal's lance? How would something like a Priest work, perhaps with multi-classing with Paladin or Chanter? The reason I ask is I want to see if my first PoE 2 group can resemble my PoE 1 group, and I want to save the Wizard as a pure Rod-using ranged DPS, just as in PoE 1. Also, does the Rogue sub-class have to be a Trickster for that tank to work?

What's the best 2H weapon?

Whoah, I didn't know. Thanks. I will take a look. I also heard that Rangers now have a sub-class that doesn't use pets; but then isn't that no better than a Rogue or a Fighter shooting, since the Ranger's power comes from the additional damage that the pet provides? So I am still not sold on Rangers. And yes, I will check the Lady of the Pain.

I will try to look for those weapons then. Currently, I am thinking of my first party using 1 dual wield DPS guy and other 2H DPS guy.

There are unique pets? LOL! Too bad I don't play either Monks or Barbarians. I really don't like classes that revolve around getting bonuses by taking maluses - especially health damage. P.S. I asked this during PoE 1, but I am wondering if the answer is different in PoE 2: Can you play Barbarian without using any of those skills that give maluses - such as Frenzy? I just don't want to lose health or take other maluses to get something.

How do you get your weapon speed lower? I don't see enchants that do that for PoE 2. (Of course, I haven't started playing yet either.)

No, I haven't even started the game. I've been reading the guides since the 5-6 days I've bought the game. I did the same for PoE 1 - I studied for like 2 weeks before I started playing a game, LOL Oh I meant the OP, not you. Ah, ok; oops!

I have started game with same setup - Hardcore DD + God Challenges (Without Magran's) (After your topic about Challenges + Modules), but with 2 guys in party Ascendant and Streetfighter/Skaen Now this is my favorite combination, brilliant inspiration + salvation of time + BDD and late game +8 pen solve all possible problems at once Isn't this all-melee though? I am not sure how it can work. But then I am looking at the game from a PoE 1 perspective, and there even 3 melees cause problems because so much of the fighting was done through constricted spaces.

No, I haven't even started the game. I've been reading the guides since the 5-6 days I've bought the game. I did the same for PoE 1 - I studied for like 2 weeks before I started playing a game, LOL

What party would you use with this? I take it you'd take 2 melee front-liners and 2 back-liners, since this guy is more or less a mid-liner?

Hmm, I don't want to have anything to do with Monks though: I think the concept of taking wounds to do damage is stupid, and I personally detest anything monastic, because I lived in a Zen monastery for several years as a boy and was thoroughly disappointed/disgusted by monks. Are there any powerful melee builds that do not involve Monks? It seems like they are always one-half of a melee build being touted here. Edit: Two classes I will never play in this game: Monks and Rangers (Rangers, because I don't want the additional micro responsibilities that come with an extra character).

Pierce is the only really tricky type, crush almost always works as well as slash. Basically, if you can get slash pen on around 16 you are set. That is why devoted type saber is still the way to go for damage. I see. But what do I do when I get slash immunes? Just have a back-up weapon?

Is Devoted not worth it even for two damage type weapons like swords?

This is just my personal opinion: As for builds, check this thread and the builds thread. Try to find something close to what you had and see what is different. I'm still on my first pt, so I'm not the best one to advise you on that. Once again, thanks so much for the advice. And yes, I am looking at all those builds as well. I promise I will actually start playing - this weekend!

2H and 1H are pretty ****ty compared to dual wield full attack, even after the nerf. Scordeo's Edge with adaptiv is just too good. Thanks. I would test both, but I don't think it's advisable to have at least 1 true tank going with 1H/shield set-up, no? I only want 2 melees, because I recall problems with narrow corridors and doors when I tried to use 3 melees in PoE 1. 1 melee would inevitably stand and do nothing.

So what's the solution with a greater number of mobs with diminished CC capabilities now? Just AoE spam?

How big a deal is the need to have two or more damage types on a weapon now? I recall that single damage type sucked in PoE 1.

Well, knockdown has been nerfed as an effect and it is little more then an interrupt now. There are some weapons which trigger it. Ball and Chain and Rust's Poignard come to mind. The latter even has a special, 10 second, version. In general those effects are quite rare. On the other hand, there are weapons with aoe effects (blunderbuss mortars, Whispers of the Endless Paths greatsword, Wahai Poraga pollaxe, rods with modal), which can deliver special attacks, such as monk's Stunning Blow, Rogue's Blinding and Crippling Strike, Fighter's Knockdown (not on ranged), various DoTs, to multiple enemies. These are not quite rare, ball and chain is 100% to knockdown on crit, and since PoE2 boss doesn’t have very high deflection, it was very easy to knockdown chain them in last patch since no boss immune to knockdown, not sure if it still works now because it seems ball and chain has a fortitude check on knockdown? Still available to rangers anyway because their high acc. Hmm, looks like Ball and Chain does 100 percent knockdown on upgrade indeed. Does this mean a Flail build is ideal for a CC melee tank build? What other really high CC chance weapons are there? Ball and Chain could be very high chance, assuming I can get crit percent high (and I assume I can do that, unless the crit chance mechanic has changed much since PoE 1). Probably Magistrate's Cudgel if you are a cipher/ranger or figher/ranger, it has sweet +10 accuracy and chance to stun on crit. I'm not sure about the chance of stun, probably 30% or 50%, still a good combo with ball&chain. Another choice is single hand ball&chain or use a gun in offhand, thus way u either have higher acc to land CC or faster and don't waste chance to attack with offhand weapon. Thanks. Someone already mentioned Ball and Chain, and I just looked up Magistrate's Cudgel. But it doesn't seem to benefit Rangers though. Am I reading it wrong? Keep in mind that I haven't played yet, and I am just researching and reading up... https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Magistrate%27s_Cudgel

Well, knockdown has been nerfed as an effect and it is little more then an interrupt now. There are some weapons which trigger it. Ball and Chain and Rust's Poignard come to mind. The latter even has a special, 10 second, version. In general those effects are quite rare. On the other hand, there are weapons with aoe effects (blunderbuss mortars, Whispers of the Endless Paths greatsword, Wahai Poraga pollaxe, rods with modal), which can deliver special attacks, such as monk's Stunning Blow, Rogue's Blinding and Crippling Strike, Fighter's Knockdown (not on ranged), various DoTs, to multiple enemies. These are not quite rare, ball and chain is 100% to knockdown on crit, and since PoE2 boss doesn’t have very high deflection, it was very easy to knockdown chain them in last patch since no boss immune to knockdown, not sure if it still works now because it seems ball and chain has a fortitude check on knockdown? Still available to rangers anyway because their high acc. Hmm, looks like Ball and Chain does 100 percent knockdown on upgrade indeed. Does this mean a Flail build is ideal for a CC melee tank build? What other really high CC chance weapons are there? Ball and Chain could be very high chance, assuming I can get crit percent high (and I assume I can do that, unless the crit chance mechanic has changed much since PoE 1).