abot

@Shai Hulud I don't remember exactly but I think my ultimate challenge run was validated in about 3/4 weeks, and my run was probably one of the slower ones with lots of video footage, but they had a dedicated person at the time so maybe thngs are slower now I don't know the implementation details of target groups so I could be wrong, but I don't think you can easily add Vela as automatically scripted target for Withdraw or similar already legit spells/scrolls without allowing other spells too that would make the challenge different/easier (e.g. a cipher with pain block/ectopsychic echo working on Vela would have easier life) Not that it would be much a problem at this point, a challenge patched to allow more classes without obligatory cheese could be very interesting and make more people try it.

Vela is meant to be the greatest challenge for the ultimate

I'm not sure about other paths as I've always used the survivor path as the easier one in SSS, but you will be forced to rest and have your buffs gone there. So probably a planning decision is when you want to have to gain buffs back Also one important thing is that most time is spent not traveling/fighting but walking/running in cities. So being able to move/steal things almost without sneaking thanks to the assassins boots invisibility cheese is also a huge time saver that could make your run much more relaxing

yeah, one of the reasons why a whale of a wand may be very useful with a cipher on ultimate, you can charm Vela to start a fight spamming fast psychovampiric shield on her, just be sure to be far away enough from enemies that she does not run for them. The nice thing is that once she calms a little, she will stay there until you change map/reload

probably also Each Kill Fed His Fury, IIRC once I prolonged it a lot even without strand of favor cheese just killing enough Many Lives Pass skeletons using Screaming Souls (or maybe with the chillfog, not sure if they need to be confused for the kill to count)

> do you recommend the PL 4 upgrade to the wurms? Like the low level skeletons, it depends on your level. If/when you have enough INT/Power level to be able to keep PL 2 wurms (always) up + get enough phrases back to cast some Eld Nary/Seven Nights it is probably not worth. So I'd say at level 15/16 better to have them PL2 and spare the phrases to invoke something else too (e.g. Eld Nary/Seven Nights, I like Eld Nary more mostly because it is easier to target from a distance). E.g. fighting the fire dragon at level 15 lately I have used pain linked wurms + some eld nary + borrowed instinct/secret horrors/disintegration from safe distance

> best summon the animated weapons. until that... level 1-2: the skeletons are good e.g. if you want to clear the 1st cave on POTD/solo from pesky acid bats without being their target. But never get the skeletons as your 1st invocation, you don't want to keep them forever but to respec as soon as you have the wurms. if you need some vessel cannon fodder at higher level for grave calling/engoliero fun, you will use the superior skellies chant anyway in the end. asap: the Wurms: cheap/fast cast, fast, even on water, even if enemy frontliners manage to block them fast they can still target ranged enemies/pesky sigils from the distance while skellies/ogres would be not useful. In my experience having summons with engagement (e.g. the ogres, not the low level skellies that suck after level 2) is rarely needed, the only melee enemies that change target to look for something else are usually nearly dead rogues and if you are ready for that you can paralyze/stun/charm them in time, so 3 wurms are usually more than enough to absorb most enemies attacks and still hit things at a distance easily. Decent fire damage, decent health but not super sturdy so they still give back good damage when pain-linked and hit by a disengage attack, they are the perfect kamikaze to use with pain link disengage dance against a tough boss (e.g. fire dragon - you can damage her safely from distance this way while you recharge to try next disintegration/eld nary attack that you can manage to chant more easily as the wurms are a cheaper summon compared to the ogres) Ogres: good when fire damage does not work well or you really need engaging, crush damage is one of the best and they have also nice area attack + robust. Alternate with the wurms until you get the animated weapons. But often 3 wurms are better than 2 ogres. The animated weapons are almost always better after you have them, except maybe the rare cases when you need more crush/fire damage or to spare some chant point for e.g. eld nary

Maybe a priest if you don't have one already, so they can give each other brilliant and the priest can cast salvation of time

Melee is mostly useful for 1 hit weapon modals to lower enemy defenses (primary flail to lower reflex before soul shock/her revenge/thunder rolled, club if you need to lower enemy resolve but Psychovampiric Shield (+ Borrowed Instinct when available) is usually enough to do it safely from distance. Same with morningstar modal, often secret horrors is enough. Pike modal can be useful with high deflection enemies when Psychovampiric Shield is not enough. Sabre modal is good when you have GraveCalling to more easily 1 hit-kill for chillfog your chanted skeletons. Not using melee much is good for Abydon challenge too. Thick grew their tongues chant + crossbow modal is not bad until you can get effort hemorragic to use with e.g. mind blades Most damage (apart special weapon power attacks like e.g. the kitchen stove one) should come from summons + echo spells targeted on them (e.g. nearly all-game-good cheap soul shock), Her revenge is mostly useful as finisher attack/to trigger specials like least unstable coil, monastic unarmed training fists can be of use but for most of the game the most important thing is to keep your summons always up and stay safe spamming spells while you get focus/chants in the backline. Later you can use amplified wave on summons/screaming souls on skeletons, thick grew their tongues chant + mind blades + secret horrors + effort hemorragic for interrupt feast For tough nuts, especially at low level, use pain link on summons, get disengage attacks on them if possible (always disable AI and fine control your summons to get the most from them), summons are your never ending primary resource/battlefield control tool so you can use them even as kamikaze on bosses. When summons are not enough to block enemies, The Thunder Rolled (stun) + Mental binding (paralyze) should be your fast/cheap always ready control tools. Not to mention Puppet Master, fast, long range, can bypass 1 level resistance, can turn relatively tough enemies (e.g. fire naga warriors) into allies... [EDIT] also engoliero on chanted skeletons is nearly as fun as grave calling if you manage to get it

I just finished another ultimate run, I wanted to see if it was possible to get the amaliorra scepter & engoliero estoc & use the upgraded watcher ship to reach Ukaizo instead of the ghost ship, it is, I even spared 5 days, sasha scimitar + grave calling + engoliero + skeletons is real fun ( oh also effort is fun with mind blades especially)

traps may be good for casters in difficult fights as you can start the fight staying stealthed and summon + buff very fast from stealth

well if it was a psion/troubadour already I stand corrected, but if not, the synergies are really worth, you should give it a try if you like casting

Ekera, but > I only know I wanna play caster dps/cc why not? There's not much more pure caster/cc than that

Just saying, you don't really need ancestor memory with a psion/troubadour casting machine. If you use a low-cost invocation like the base wurms, about 16 INT should be enough to be able to keep the summons wall up and still have enough phrases to invoke something offensive and/or controlling chanter side + keeping on spamming low level psion spells (control and/or e.g. echo area spells) When you are high level and you have the rapid skeletons chant you can do a lot with chillfog paralyzing scimitar, strip interrupt resistance chant, energized invocation, effort sword hemorragic interrupting many enemies on any crit

I suggest https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Fleshmender for main/one character, its auto healing can cut on Abydon's armor repairing expenses if you don't get damaged a lot

Ah yes, sorry, checked without Wael, it is 5% also from description. Still very useful/easier to trigger though, e.g. I just cleaned the Forgotten Sanctum Upper Bowels with Vela always staying near the staircase at the start

one thing I discovered recently that could be of use to chanter/cipher or similar builds: if you have A Whale of a Wand equipped, you can fast cast out of combat Psychovampiric Shield on Vela with 10 5 % chance to charm her, much easier to trigger than usual 1% from other items. If you are far enough from enemies, charming her is safe, she stays there (and keeps staying there, not following you any more while in the level cell!), battle music starts, you can now chant/summon, etc you get the idea from here... [EDIT] percent fixed, they nerfed it, see below, still great to have if you have space between enemies [EDIT2] another thing I realized recently. you already know when you have brilliant and the least unstable coil you can target out of fight a destructible with empowered Her Revenge Swept Across the Land and get up to 6 level 3 inspirations at once, but if you have no target you can still use any empowered invocation to get one level 3 inspiration, so if you are lacking a couple of inspirations and you have the Sasha's scimitar you can spam empowered her revenge with no target out of fight and get back the missing level 3 inspiration in a few tries

chanter's her revenge works with single target too as all bolts hit the single target in that case

the easier to find target is a single destructible (barrel, sigil, the first encounter in kazuwari arena is the ideal place to get the inspirations back...) if your spell can be single target (e.g. chanter Her Revenge Swept Across the Land, but you need brilliant to have her revenge available out of combat, at least with a multiclass), if you have to use a bigger area spell (I am sure storm of holy fire works, I don't remember about great maelstrom) I guess just pay more attention to not harm alive things around.

Cheers to all ultimaters! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1204462312?t=12h55m30s

> it is a difficulty only limited to +3 (or 4 I don't remember) your party level but - but ... that is is not a bug, it is how it works, it is meant to be extremely difficult, the whole meaning of choosing "always upscale up"

I don't know how much it could be of use as I only played solo in test/study runs preparing for the Ultimate Challenge, so with no Iron Man mode (to avoid restarting from scratch on mistake), all Magran Fires on except Wael challenge (to be able to see the stats) and Eothas challenge (to be able to try different routes), and the Magran Fires challenges force a play style so different that hardly can compare to play style without them, but I still think my beloved Psion+Troubadour summoner build could be a jack of all trades

Dunno, with my build Each Kill Fed His Fury is one of the most reliable things to prolong, I just prolong it once with strand of favor+gambeson and once it reaches long duration it stays forever/it is never dispelled I even respec after getting it once (differently from the other inspiration buffs that sometimes are canceled and need reapplying the least unstable coil empower), it stacks with any inspiration from the least unstable coil I will give the ring of clenched muscle another try, last time it did not stack for me, but so far I've only managed to stack +5 from invocation, + 5 from inspiration max points per stat so maybe if you already have the +5 from Each Kill and the +5 tier 3 from the coil the ring does not work [EDIT] I recently realized a thing for this build that could be useful also for other builds with no easy ways to control Vela before starting a fight: you can use the stun from Modwyr on her out of fight, it should get you enough time and as it is out of fight it will not be consumed. It is also handy as secondary weapon to trigger scordeo's edge blade cascade without damaging the sabre if, like this build, you have no weapon abilities [EDIT2] items list updated below as previous one is no more editable useful items primarily for no priest subclass/no pure wizard builds using item switching to prolong beneficial effect duration out of combat ( strand of favor, cabalist's gambeson arcane extension, ooblit pet...), please add to the list if you find relevant missing things. Note: I've just discovered so far the faster way to prolong the effects in my experience: if you have both strand of favor and cabalist's gambeson, equip both of them, than place an armor and a necklace in player inventory, click e.g. the necklace, hover on the armor (or vice-versa), double click; this way one double click will swap both necklace and armor slots, doubling the swap speed Note: a way to trigger watcher blooded state out of combat is using double necklace of fireballs on self, just pay attention when Vela is moving around (you can have double necklace of fireballs from dunnage+neketaka vendors so you can use it soon with cabalist's gambeson from arkemyr's vault). You can use also double Missile Gloves (Crookspur + Deck of Many Things vendors), but those may come later depending on your path any unguent can be easily prolonged for +2 skill Arcanist's Balm (+2 Alchemy, +2 Arcana, +2 Explosives) Blessed Incense (+2 History, +2 Insight, +2 Metaphysics, +2 Religion) Oil of Allure (+2 Bluff, +2 Diplomacy, +2 Intimidate, +2 Streetwise) Thief's Putty (+2 Mechanics, +2 Sleight of Hand, +2 Stealth) Unguent of Animalism (+2 Athletics, +2 Survival) Antidote Immunity to Poison attacks for 30 sec Not sure drugs are worth, anyway apply the drug, prolong a little bit, save, reload. Maybe be sure to apply Deadeye LAST as it seems to be the one giving problems to the rest. 1 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec) 2 Coral Snuff (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec) 3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec) 4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec) 5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec) 6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec) 7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec) or? 1 Coral Snuff (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec) 2 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec) 3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec) 4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec) 5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec) 6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec) 7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec) I think when trying the ultimate to submit it to the developers, is better not to spam save, reload (there is a chance it could be not accepted), so maybe better to apply 1 drug at a time/once before exiting the game session unstable soul essence bomb (+6 Health Restored per 6.0 sec for 12.0 sec) Amra battle axe with Tempered Fury enchantment, Frenzy without deflection penalty, 25% chance on kill. triggers with barrels, ranger pet or blight from magran's favor belt devil of caroc breastplate devil's due +2 health restored per 3.0 sec for 6.0 sec on critical hit with weapons (hit vela) Lover's Embrace dagger: Frenzy (25% action speed, -10 deflection, Strong, Fit for 15 sec) from Lover's Quarrel on female target enchant, get it by critting Vela (more safely with a shield equipped) (Probably not worth as not stacking with Amra tempered fury) scordeo's trophy opening barrage (unlimited stacking -5% recovery time), you can get very good recovery time just with this one before getting scordeo's edge resounding call call to arms (Destroying a destructible grants tenacious 12.0 sec), not super easy to prolong but doable and definitely great to have wahai poraga at blades reach -20% Melee Damage Received for 2.0 sec on launching attack (hit vela) The Maker's Own Power belt reforge the flesh 10hp/3sec -85% dmg, paralyze can be worked around (blade cascade on, trigger reforge and extend it, if you knocked yourself out you will stand up and won't be paralyzed, you may still need to switch weapon, save, reload and switch weapon again to get rid of paralyze) necklace of the harvest moon yearly reap -5% Recovery Time for 6.0 sec on crit), hit vela with blunderbuss Slippers of the Assassin Boots Shadow Form (invisible on kill, trigger it killing barrels. Reported working (thanks Raven Darkholme) with double clicking slippers from player inventory too, but so far not working this way for Kaylon and me so it may be related to specific build/setup) [EDIT] ok so I managed to get it working after save/reload: on reload you look transparent but the Shadow Form is no more working until you equip the boots again but you need to prolong it from scratch in my experience so it may be a little tedious but easy to use Tip: use them to steal the Crucible Token from Humaire as soon as you enter the Toamowhai Temple, this way you can recharge it after getting another one from her, gives Kazuwari's Call, +15% damage done to/-15% damage received from a single target in a fight bardatto's luxury death and taxes: hardy on unconscious ally, not hard to trigger on combat and can be prolonged out of combat as it lasts long scordeo's edge adaptive (+2 Accuracy with all weapons for 30.0 sec on scoring Hit, stacks 10 times, easy to prolong as long lasting, stacks with blade cascade/highwayman) scordeo's edge blade cascade (ignore recovery for 5.0 sec on scoring hit, use it on vela) Scordeo's Edge Highwayman (20acc with ranged weapons) griffin's blade loyal companion: steadfast on blooded, not so easy to prolong permanently (gets overriden by spells giving the same effect) but useful as alternative to no pity for the lost watcher ability least unstable coil Empowered Being (all lvl3 inspirations, however like all inspirations buffs if you're hit by afflictions your inspirations will degrade if you're not immune from afflictions. if you are immune it will not be overwritten unless you use it again. Also if you unequip, save, reload the buff will be saved with a different name and no more overwritten but it may weaken some effects of the inspirations like robust) Less/Least Unstable Coil Spirit Siphon (15% action speed, stacks with Tempered Fury from Amra and Bolting Strikes from Lord Darryn's Voulge) protective eothasian charm darkest before dawn (+5 health per 3.0 sec over 12 sec, damage reduced by -25% for 12 sec on near death), risky but good to prolong, you need to sleep once to recharge it though) Lord Darryn's Voulge Bolting Strikes (10% chance on hit to get Quick for 10.0 sec, 15% Damage dealt as Shock with weapons for 10.0 sec) Nature's Embrace: groves King -> barkskin (+5 pierce, burn, shock AC for 15s) chromoprismatic quarterstaff elemental induction (+15% Damage for 10.0 sec when hit with Acid / Fire / Frost / Electricity attacks), e.g. use necklace of fireballs to trigger chromoprismatic entropy shield (-1% damage x 10 sec max 5 stack, increases with metaphisic to about 10-12% not worth much reduced to 5% after save/reload but better than nothing) robe of the Weyc Muse of Mystery: After Empowering an invocation, chanter phrases elapse 50% faster for 12.0 sec, that's a new phrase every 2 sec for a troubadour (can be prolonged) Shea's War Staff Channeled Strike (15% hit to crit with melee attacks) weyc's wand attuned channel (after empowering an ability, gain +3 Power Level for 20 sec, confirmed) serpent crown serpent's strike +10 Accuracy (maybe also -25% Recovery Time?) for 15s when critically hit Whispers from the Depths Grasping Mysteries: 30% chance on scoring Kill to gain Acute (+5 Intellect, +1 All Power Levels) for 8.0 sec First Blood from Beza's Toothed Blade : + 10% speed for 10s on scoring hit against > 75% health target (hit Vela) - does not stack with frenzy

The 13th missing build so far may be the single class assassin one but if you don't like cheese probably not for you https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtOp-Y5Gw0Alq-mxJ2b-qozw8uciQgti-

I am sharing a commented pre ultimate-test run (no iron mode/no Wael challenge) video streaming if you are interested, hints are mostly explaining cheese needed for classes not relying on being not targetable/unkillable in fights but there are also generic hints valid for any build I suppose