Hassat Hunter

No, because the market for games in stores is $50. If they make a good game that sells that is nice for them. IF devs start to claim though they bypass alot of cost-points thereby enlarging their profit per copy from $3 to $50 (+1700% profit per copy) why do we get -0% reduction in price? The "greedy" comes in when all the costs are reduced how many they charge Per Copy. If they ask $50,- for GTA:SA and the devs get $3 of it... they can sell it at the same price as a low-amount-of-products-seller as Sacrifice... also $3 of $50... My point exactly... And you can be 100% sure that when producers fall away devs. WON'T go for max. amount of products sold? If they get all of the $50 for a copy why aim for 100K sales if you can aim for 1M? In the end all will not matter that way... THERE IS a difference. With a DL you get the exact same data as that on a disk. How can you call everything around it (which costs money to produce and adds value to a product (the lovely economic you love to aim at that people should learn it)) not that what it is, cfr. added value? If you value that stuff you can buy it yes... AGAINST NO ADDITIONAL COST. How can you call that equal then? Fact is; we DO NOT know how devs will react when producers are gone. You can say more variety, but if I see this thread it looks to me Devs. are greedy sons of... and thus try (like publishers) to aim for the most sales of there product. And thus they will create what they know sells well. Ofcourse some will try to do different and take the risk... usually not making it in the end... Hey... That is THE SAME as our current situation. Unless somebody can actually convince me on the fact devs. will use this liberty to haunt for quality instead of the most $ for themselves (which I doubt anybody can, since it probably is not real to think... as said; All people are Greedy from nature...) I doubt DD will give the major step forward pro-DD'ers claim it to be... -Snapped in 2 due to size...

No. I just find it odd that devs. blame high prices and low income for them on this specific cost yet not take a (large) part of it away when it is actually skipped... Doesn't make me feel like supporting the devs any more than any store/producer etc. From the sound of it it doesn't. If devs say "they will receive a MUCH bigger part of the copy" than I don't believe in such *they spend it on marketing* etc. crap... As spider already mentioned before note the "Then they have to sell XXX copies BEFORE PROFIT". It includes the costs you seek... McCarthy's numbers are working against you and the Pro-Download people... No, I talk about CounterStrike, Day of Defeat, Orchestra, HL2 DM and all the other stuff that IS (or was) MOD and now has to be payed for due to being online... And on the Episode stuff... sorry; but I don't buy it. Paying $20 for an episode of 5 hours instead of any other game an 10 hour expansion of $30 (retail-sold) doesn't look to me like "advanchment that was never possible with publishers". Especially if for this 5 hours they have to fill up the stuff with SpyWare (Sin: Emergence). Nope... nope...nope... But why need Retail copies in the first place if DD reduces the NEEDED SALES by 90% ??? Listen to the FACTS of selling costumers; a way better thing to trust upon than some Fanboys on a forum. DARWINIA did bad when it was on stores and the company was almost forced to shut down, yet after it became downloadable it actually made profit... Being an indie title and thus cheaper might have helped here though; but since major titles don't follow it is no wonder DD is still in it's starting phase. Say for yourself: Do you wan't to pay $50 for a 2 hour DL or for a box with manual, disk and maybe even additional stuff? I DON'T CARE for the additional profit any dev get as long as they don't show me proof they aren't as (or even worse currently: even more!) greedy as the publishers they claim are the evil on the planet... All fun and all to blame everything that is wrong on publishers, but devs aren't brandclean and trustable either... Ofcourse buying it in the shop with pre-order gives me about 15% reduction... YEAH! I have to be really happy with that 10%... No. I DON'T claim to have it. I am basing ALL my financial numbers on actually selling prices (as given on the sites) and the INFORMATION McCARTY GAVE US HIMSELF. If you blame my financial stuff in this thread is wrong you there-by claim Mr. McCarthy LIED to us. And thus a sign is given devs are less trustable than producers and stores are... not something that would make the audience into a "lets give it to devs instead of producers" attitude... And not all titles get -10%. As a matter of fact; none besides Episode I. And that is to make people pre-order... not to lower the cost for us since they already make more of that cash into their pockets... Because otherwise we (the costumers) would rather go to stores; thus never making DD as big as it could become and thereby annihilating the goal of making devs producer-independant before it could even start? If devs sell games for the same price as in retail, while gamers get less content; do you really think we would go out online and be all gloathy about giving the money right to the devs to help 'em out? Especially if due to this pricing the reasoning given that DD helps gamers is unforfilled (no bigger selection of producer-restrictions-free games if DD never takes off due to this *cheating*)

Golden Axe2 was the latest game... No PG for us

Remember that fun installer for that game... that is what I fear That the Troika's verbally abused enough producers that the likeliness of any of them wanting to work with Troika's again is very close near 0% No, but they SHOULD compensate a part of the profit they make. -10% for 20% retailer profit seems nice to me; but even that is NOT given... no wonder alot of people buy it rather in the story then, with the added stuff for the same price... Yeah. But the point is the amount of extra money. To take McCarthy words a current shopped game needs 2 million copies to sell for $50 to make profit. With DD and $30 it only needs 200K copies. But DD doens't cost $30. Let's say the upkeep of the server and such costs $10 per copy (alot more than is likely). Thus they make $20 of a copy. NOW since they sell it for $50 they get $40. Thus have to sell 100K copies (And since the upkeep of $10 is WAY too high likely even lower like 75K). If it only takes so few copies to make profit why is million seller Half-Life2 $50 at retail (launch) for source? Why do they wan't additional cash for CS/DM and other additional that is basically mods (do we hear Bethesda influence?)? Sure, a dev. gets more cash this way, we all agree on that. BUT if these devs start parading against shops and prod. with such numbers (2 million VS. 200K at 20 dollar lower) why do we still have to pay that cash. Even though it *MAY* not be it does make these devs look like greedy basterds. If the excuse is "we need to sell it retail too" why? The amount of sold is so much lower that is not really needed, is it? Despite the internet-selling stuff being in it's shoes you probably find loads of sellers IF your game has quality. Darwania has proved us that... Yeah; too expensive. Especially when looking at the content. I still haven't touched the MQ of Oblivion and I doubt I will even look at this stuff after I payed my $2 for... Anyways; I call it a night. 1:30AM and have to get up early...

DS-Exile doesn't have T3 on board to fix the ship for him? Maybe the DS-Exile (violent as he/she is) makes a far rougher approach to Malachor 5 Anyways; In the DS-ending that scene makes sense, in the LS-ending it does not...

Me neither This line (for Kotor1 replace SWKotor2.ini with SWKotor.ini): Q. I am having slow performance on Dantooine and/or in the Jekk Jekk Tar A. Open SWKotor2.ini found in the map where you installed Kotor2. There find [Graphics Options] and add the line Disable Vertex Buffer Objects=1

The better your card the higher the chance Dantooine will lag. Weird ain't it... but it is all fixed by that simple line... (no idea why anybody should ever not wan't to put it in) And smoke... not even a superCRAY of the CIA could get past that without lag...

I can never be certain but 7 handmaiden's in the Academy when they all say there are 6, selling Handmaiden's robe for the upteenth time, seeing the EH die then fly away again, getting to lvl 50 on Hssisses, seeing Carth when he's dead, getting assaulted by Sith Assassins while the Mandalorians claim they killed all etc. etc. etc. sound all to me like they shouldn't be inside...

Well, we can have fast connections here; but if you only use the net for browsing (not that often), checking mail and blasting some people's head of once in a while in a online game you really don't need the fastest connection. It would be a shame if that was needed just for DL'ing games I can already buy now anyway and let all that speed go to waste since I never use it anyway... +$ in the times I do not buy games The biggest DL I did (1.8 gig... had to redo that 3x due to a corrupted seeder (another reason what can go wrong if you DL) took me 2.5 hours (each time)... and that was because I had a temp boost in speed during that time... And well, the shops are pretty close here, like I said; 15 min back and fort (including browsing the shops for what you wan't) Don't know, haven't bought them (too expensive; not enough content). But I do know it is raining complains of people who cannot install these things after paying for them...

If it would just work none at all... EDIT: Oh, perhaps searching for the game you wan't. In the stores all games might be in a corner but for online you need to seek those several different pages. Probably the same amount of effort (small) as finding the shops inside town, but some of the less known sites might take a long search then if you wan't a game from it... But certain copy protection and security things can really mess it up (see Oblivion). Also from a POV that is timedependant it probably is easier to go to retail. Getting downtown, buying a game and being home in 15 min, install 5 min and you game in 20 min (2 DVD's). See that happen with a internet connection over here...

To make money. Kind of obvious. But then claiming that it is such a big stake yet not give any of that to the costumer back when he decides to skip that part makes it hypocrytical. I know OE haven't done online shipping like that, nor did Troika (but they (under a new name) will do so now) but if devs make such statements and then several (like all) other devs who do ship online and still ask the full charge (+shop profit) you cannot do anything but doubt those devs who make such statements.

With the price-difference between Retail and DD (which is next to none) I am really starting to doubt those statements before that $10-12,- of every $50,- of a game (20%) is for the retailer, and not Dev/Pub. If that is infact the truth, keeping the prices the same with DD doesn't make devs credible when saying they get such a small stake and the rest taking so much... If a dev claims he gets 2% of that 50,- then want's to directly ship me that game for $50,- I feel cheated...not by the shop/prod. but by said developers... Especially if that $50,- gives a smaller package (namely none) than when I buy iy in the stores...

No, because the retail pricing can be lower than the DD costs. If that is so I really wonder how somebody comes up with a 20% winst marge for the shop... Where does this 20% go when there is no shop involved? How much money *did* Valve made with Half-Life2 because they asked costumers far far far more than that they should have paid?

And thus you made MY main point for sticking with retail copies... Yeah, but it's TROIKA. Would you trust them with an online download (PoR2 remember)... besides that they never get themselves a producer in their entire lifetime; there should be a reason for that... and as all the other suppliers at Steam can get a retail... We shall see if this steam stuff makes their programming code better, but untill they proved that I remain sceptic and certainly wouldn't do something as pre-order or buy within the first 3 months... And (Fear pro-download folks) IF this game is as buggy as all the other Troika stuff a LOT of support for Download above Producer is probably lost... In the sense that they picture stores and producers as big greedy tieves while being worse ones themselves... Not a good looking picture... And then I get an all written disk, booklet, hardcover AND I can spend my online time downloading different stuff than the game. Besides that HOW can it *actually* be 0.88c cheaper IF the retail stores roam off ALOT of the cash, not to mention my store actually has to make shipping costs too themselves... PS. I hate it how despite that a Euro is 1.20 dollar or so they still do $ = Euro with alot of prices

Because you can compare them with the ingame footage of last week and see a HUGE difference? "

Uhum, they talk about Revan... " Not the exile

Steam download 20 bucks dollar. Retail (with box, manual, disk AND not a download of a few hours) 15 euro's. http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=615087 If you need more info... Please explain the fact that retail is cheaper than steam even if those greedy greedy store AND dev are of the game

Well, we can probably enjoy the trailer too... in 3 years. First Halo2, no?

I actually forgot to mention Oblivion's AWESUM online deals. But this post reminded me to them again. Both on price and why downloading can screw ya is inside this Oblivion "Plugins" debacle... http://storefront.steampowered.com/v2/ $19.95 My shop (OFFLINE) Euro 14.95 (Talk about buying in shops is cheaper) I win :D With such kind of numbers I really start to doubt the statements McCarthy of Troika and J.E. Sawyer make... and start doubting about their credibility... I certainly NOT gonna DL to "help devs" if it is cheaper to buy the game in those stores who roam of 20% of the price for themselves (according to J.E.) and keep the prices the same (well, actually, lower)...

Same glitch. You dupe the saber with content... :cool:

Well, they have to restore the ending and make it make any sense. And with this scene in it it doesn't make any sense... Besides that it is obvious it doesn't belong in there and since TSLRP already tries to fix many bugs (Hsiss etc., Gazillion spelling errors nobody noticed anyways) why not do this to and add sense to the ending they try to make sense-full...

Never got Carth or Cede there...

Accept it, then talk to Greeda... accept her offer... Then after you told the Duros that you don't wan't to do Greeda's Stabilize job...

Just for you I checked the Steam store (from the get steam here link). Can't say I call 30,- for an expansion, $10 for original Half-Life, $30,- for Half-Life2 less expensive than in the stores. Quite the opposite... Not a single new game has a price listing there either; only older ones. And I mean $10 to play deathmatch ...

It is already legal (only soft) here... and we get less kids killin' themselves with made up sniff things like glue and sorts... You could be his friend.. I thought they already were... Wasn't she talking (with WE) about that experience that made him drink alone?