Canaan Aphettu

The first review of Kotor II pointed out that, as the middle act of what we all hope will be a three-part series, it's got the most in common with Empire Strikes Back. Then they said "It not so much does an Empire, but outdoes it". This could well be true - TSL is very, very dark, far more so than the first Kotor, and hopefully, than the 3rd film will be. After all, this film's wise old mentor turns out to be the Dark Lord of the Sith who is controlling everything, trying to teach you to use your allies without them knowing, while she's secretly doing this to you. So considering that Kreia's such a bad egg, it's no surprise that she doubts the "wisdom" of the Jedi council. And this particular line - "There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you." is, I think, not referring to how the Jedi are wrong, but rather to how, unlike the first game (Revan), the fifth film (Father), the sixth film(Sister), the first film (Queen), and indeed the third film if you didn't know the Emperor's last name (Sidious), in this game, there is no sudden plot twist. No (and I'm paraphrasing here) "dark secret that will shatter you to your core". There is only you. New question - was there really a wound in the Force? Or was that what Kreia and the Jedi percieved? Is it possible to damage a non-corporeal entity, or is it more likely that, because the Force "created by all living things", to quote Kenobi, it merely absorbed the deaths of Malachor, as those beings became one with it, and this sudden absorbtion of souls caused a change in its appearance, in the way the Jedi percieved it? Many individuals were wounded at Malachor - the Exile, Sion, Nihilus, Bao Dur, etc etc, but was this merely damagage to individuals, rather than to the Force as a whole. Malachor sent ripples through the Force, to be sure, but a wound? I'm not convinced.

TBH, I think that's the coolest thing about it. Running around, talking to people with the blade out, in a casual stance. :D I've grown quite fond of orange recently. I go through phases - I used to like red, then blue, then green, the yellow. I enjoy orange on and off because it's different and my favourite Exile I ever built used Orange and Blue. I think that red gets a lot of bad press for no reason - sure, it's generally a Sith colour, but that doesn't make you evil for using it. I think more LS jedi should use red to boost its popularity.

I've been thinking recently, and I think we need a strong, definite female Sith. Never mind Kreia, she doesn't count. And the whole "Revan is a woman sometimes" doesn't work either. We need a really cool, evil woman. I've always liked the term Sith Empress myself, but it only really works if she's in charge of an Empire.

Yoda, Yaddle and Vandar's species has still not been revealed. Very annoying. We can assume thar they're generally strong in the Force, as the only three of their species we know of have been Jedi. I wouldn't mind seeing, at some point, a visit to their home planet, possibly in Lucas' new TV show. And then, if they are all strong in the Force, we may even end up with a dark Jedi member of their species...

I've got #0, #1 and #2. Waiting for #3 to reach my import shop is annoying, but if I'm lucky I may end up picking it up in about an hour. If I'm lucky. Otherwise I'll have to wait for two weeks

Revan kind of takes the place of both Luke or Anakin and Sidious, because of previous roles - the Sidious of the piece is the former Darth Revan, and if Revan returns (no, I'm not talking about you ) that's an Anakin story, whereas the LS ending with the Star Forge destroyed is far more Lukey. Let's not forget that HK-47 is the "protocol" droid of the piece. So he's kind of Threepio. And I guess Calo Nord is the Boba Fett of the piece.

I agree - Bao Dur and T3. T3 is, however, more loyal to Revan than to the Exile, so Bao Dur's the winner.

Well said, Phantom. But I do agree about Jolee's allignment - he should've been LS. It worked well keeping Kreia on the borderline, because her true identity as Kreia was meant to be a plot twist, and I'd assume that Kreia has the ability to shield her true allignment from even those who are strong with the Force.

Surprising, that.

Yeah, but the miners uniform doesn't look cool. And it's all about looking cool. I would, assume, though, that the reason it'd be best for someone with a laser arm not to wear flapping, loose clothing made of dry material would possibly be due to the fire hazard.

Obi-Wan's sucess list: - Darth Maul - General Grievous - Darth Vader (kinda). These are Sith (and an evil roboticised monster) of the more recent order, where there are only 2 Sith, so they're the highest level. So Obi killed the second most powerful Sith, the leader of an army who had personally killed countless Jedi, and mortally wounded The Chosen One. If Malak had the Star Forge, with all his Jedi in jars, he might stand more of a chance, but otherwise, Kenobi ftw.

except Mara Jade Skywalker (key name there) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very good point. I'm not sure who'd win - Mara would have more experience at killing Jedi, but Bastila's got the whole Battle Meditation thing going for her. Hmm... As Battle Meditation wouldn't be particularly helpful in one-to-one combat, I'll go with Jade.

I quite like that Mandalorian. It's got the right look to it - bulky equiptment containing lots of weapons. The only thing that'd make it better - legs. And possibly hands.

Working on that logic, my new theory is: Kreia is actually Jolee Bindo. He had extensive surgery between K1 and K2. After all, there's no proof they aren't one in the same? While it's possible that Kreia could be Handmaiden's mother, I would expect that their relationship might be shown in a different way - Kreia regards Handmaiden as nothing more than a tool. If she's willing to die for the Exile, because of her love. surely she'd at least spend a little time with her actual biological daughter. Besides, doesn't Kreia kill all the Handmaidens if the Exile is female?

Agreed! She always hates me, and the feeling is reciprocated.

Even then, it wasn't established is my point. Corran Horn's Grandfather married, had a son, and was kiled in the purge, and his wife and child hid. He wasn't exiled for his marraige. I'm telling you it may be frowned on, but there isn't one single exile ever handed out for having a family anywhere in the movies, the literature, or the games. It's as much in the heads of those doing so as anything else. They fear persecution that never happens, because they are told not to do it. It's a bluff is all I'm saying. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But every situation would be different - perhaps Grandfather Horn wasn't exiled because the council saw more wide-reaching problems involved in this - perhaps they were worried he'd become bitter and fall to the Dark Side. I think that, Yoda being a very wise Jedi, he would foresee the effects of secret marriage, or exile, upon Jedi. He would have known that this would be their downfall and therefore would have made sure the matter was handled with care. Jedi of older times may not have been as careful.

Now, now, it does change eventually. There must always be a Darth Traya. But getting her lightside is like turning back time. I hate Kreia.

According to the teachings of the Sith, true strength comes from adversity - which is why you shouldn't help others, and weaken them. But by helping others, you yourself endure more adversity, becoming stronger. So according to the Sith teachings, the best way to become strong is to follow the light path. But according to the Jedi, rather than only focusing on your own growth, you should spend your life helping others to become strong. So they should become strong through adversity, rather than being given a piggy-back. So according to the Jedi, the best way to help others is to follow the dark path. I'm so confused. Well, I think that neither the Jedi, nor the Sith are correct - but standing on the borderline is unhelpful also. The true path is yet to be revealed, but if the Force has a will, as the Jedi suggest, the path should become clear with time.

Whatever happens in JKII (and this is me pretty much guessing), Katarn ends up good in the end - as is seen in Academy when he's Luke's close friend, and in other literature.

That's a very good way of putting it. So killing the Force would do more than seperate the Jedi and Sith from their powers. Everyone would die. So my view is that Kreia's a nasty old hag, evil to the core, pretending to be gray in order to win the Exile's support and teach valuable lessons.

I think that, generally, rather than become exiled for having a marriage, most family Jedi choose to leave - such as Jedi like Quinlan Vos, who, at the time of Episode III, was in the same situation as Anakin - wife and newborn - and had chosen to do his duty in the war, and then to leave the order. Of course, he never gets the chance to leave per say, because the Jedi are scattered and he barely survives with his life, and then manages to live in hiding with his wife and child. I think that the reason that few Jedi are heard of being exiled for the crime of marriage is because most family Jedi choose to leave before the council can decree it, but certainly if a Jedi tries simply to hide her child, as Kae did, she would be exiled not only for breaking the rules, but also for keeping her sin a secret.

No. They hid them from Vader and the Emporer to protect them. Neither Yoda nor Obi Wan mention using them to destroy the Sith - they just want them to be safe. So when Obi Wan directs Luke to Yoda, Yoda is against the idea of training him, in case he becomes another Vader, and - as Luke doesn't know the truth about his father - gives the excuse that he's too old - the same reason he didn't want to train Anakin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So they're just going to pass on the only hope they have of overthrowing the Sith... Sorry, but I'll have to respectfully disagree. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well it was Obi Wan's hope to train Luke, and have him destroy the Sith - after all, he'd trained with the boy and felt his raw, untrained abilities. But Yoda's plan was a rather more traditional view - many Jedi masters believed that these events may be the will of the Force, and the balance of power would eventually shift in their favour. Either that or he was just plain depressed and didn't think they'd stand a chance. One thing's for sure - unless he was acting again, Yoda did not want to train Luke.

I just realised that my post contained many, many spoilers, so here it is in black, for those who wish to avoid it: The Exile only survived being cut-off from the Force because it was self imposed - to shield the Exile from the pain of Malachor. Kreia, who was forcibly cut off from the Force by the Jedi, survived because it was the Jedi's will to keep her breathing. This was a punishment, not an execution. But had Kreia succeded in destroying the Force (which I don't think is possible anyway), all life would have died. As Qui Gon says "Without the Force, we could not exist". Even while the Exile and Kreia were cut off from the Force, they still existed within the Unifying Force - the overall reach of it. This is discussed in great detail in the last New Jedi Order book, aptly named "The Unifying Force", which features an entire species that has been cut off from the Force - I strongly suggest you read it.

No. They hid them from Vader and the Emporer to protect them. Neither Yoda nor Obi Wan mention using them to destroy the Sith - they just want them to be safe. So when Obi Wan directs Luke to Yoda, Yoda is against the idea of training him, in case he becomes another Vader, and - as Luke doesn't know the truth about his father - gives the excuse that he's too old - the same reason he didn't want to train Anakin.

Not unless your refering to the Jedi. I'm not sure those were created. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They did pop up out of nowhere - maybe they were, indeed, created magically by the Star Forge.