Boeroer

Looks good. Battle Axes look fine on a barb and the annihilation enchantment (or other on-crit effects) works ok if you're not playing Path of the Damned. On PotD you'll need the help of party members (causing afflictions) in order to make very effective use of it. I personally prefer hammers though because of the dual damage type (so, no problems when meeting foes who are resistant to a certain damage type) and because you can get a good one (Shatterstar) early. Another foolproof pick is to go for Tidefall + Blood Thirst. Tidefall is one of the best dps weapons when you can reduce recovery - Frenzy, Blood Thirst + Bloodlust are great tools for that. Its wounding works very well with high MIG and with Carnage - and at the same time the Draining does, too. So you will drain a lot of endurance as long as you are hitting. The wounding helps to kill faster which will trigger Blood Thirst and also Bloodlust more often. It a great mixture that makes you more sturdy and lets you kill faster. Another plus ist hat you can get Tidefall pretty early and it comes in superb quality - outranking any other weapon in terms of damage and accuracy that you can get at that point. And it stays to be top notch until the end of the game. As backup weapon you should consider St. Ydwen's Redeemer when you meet vessels (aka undead and constructs). Blood THirst will trigger when the Redeemer destroys a vessel (works with carnage) which basically leads to a fight where you have no recovery at all because you'll destroy a vessel with every strike. It's hilarious! I second Blaidh Golan: it's a good armor for barbarians. Sanguine Plate also is. You can catch a crit that triggers Frenzy and when this runs out you can trigger your own, maintaining speed. Bloodlust stacks with Frenzy, so it's not wasted if they overlap. The advantage of the Frenzy from Sanguine Plate in comparison to the barb's own one is that the first doesn't need any activation time while the latter has a seperate animation that takes some time to complete. Also plate armor + Blood Thirst is a smart pick because Blood THirst wil set your recovery to zero after a kill no matter what your armor penalty is.

Novice's Suffering is like it's designed for low PER because grazes do almost the same damage as crits. Very good with barbs. Fighter with Confident Aim and dual flails.

Unlike you I'm unpredictable.

It is so powerful because it has a) wounding b) the spell stealing works like so: You charge a caster and hit him a few times (or take a barb and hit a group of casters to immediately gain access to their spells). Rogue or fighter also works fine because of Deathblows and high ACC. Then you get some spells for a given time (it's quite a long timespan). In that timespan you can cast those spells as often as you can. There is no limit other than your speed. With it most bounties that includes casters are a joke. You steal Calling the World's Maw and can cast it over and over till everybody is dead. Really. Cool with rogue (Deathblows and Deep Wounds) or barb (Blood Thirst). And in all other fights it has wounding which is the best dps enchantment. It comes really late, true. But if you use it right it's a game breaker.

Sure - without speed buffs (like Outlander's Frenzy or potion or Angio's Gambeson, Behold the Martyr/Vengeful Grief or other stuff that brings you near 0 recovery with a two handed weapon) dual wielding is great. Even with buffs I like it because you might use Vulnerable Attack and/or thicker armor. But as you already said: the theoretical damage output of melee should be higher than ranged because you a) have to move a lot which lowers damage output over the course of an encounter and b) you put yourself in danger There is other stuff, too: the rogue can have several Full Attacks per encounter which will contribute to his damage. With Shadow Step, Escape and Boots of Speed he can lower that damage loss. But it's difficult to factor in - like the effect of armor (slower speed but less knockouts) on dps. On the other hand a ranger could deliver two Wounding Shots with guns that would also result in a spike of damage - his damage increase because of Stunning Shots is hard to determine and so on. I like the colors you put there - but the downside is that at first look it seems that the rogue does a lot more (theoretical) damage. But in this case the numbers are relatively close to each other A small change of damage would result in a substantial shift of the "break even line", what do you think? Still I like this comparison and the work you put in. It looks great and is very informative. I think with MaxQuest's mod that lets you count ALL damage a character does it is possible to determine the "real" differences in damage potential over the whole game (for your own playstyle only though). But you'd have to do a complete playthrough in order to get the results.

Ok, that's a big plus.

I'm curious: is the pet included? The numbers are not that far apart - so I guess adding/leaving out the pet would result in a substantial shift of green/blue?

You can spawn any character, yes. You can also add them to the party. Even a dragon.

I'd rather dump RES than CON on my backline. It's really bad if they get one-shotted with a ranged attack. Mind Control is not a big deal because the AI will not use spells and while you're turned you won't get attacked. In PotD there are also a lot more enemies who will rush your backline. But I do both sometimes: dumping CON and also RES. It works but you will be very frail. You have to let the front line unstealth and engage and then unstealth and attack with the back line. That way they don't get targeted immediately. And stuff like CC also helps with survival. But in general I'd say it's less of a hassle to have less squishy casters. Also some medium armor can prevent rushing. Some enemies look for low DR, some for low endurance and others for low deflection.

Stormcaller is more fun if you ask me. Just because of the "whack" it makes when Returning Storm triggers (it's not really returning in this case, just a one-time strike of lightning) and because every hit produces a nice brizzling sound from the shock damage. They are both very good.

I think that Disciplined Barrage is one of the best abilities a fighter has. For me it's not Weapon Focus or Disciplined Barraged. I will always take both because they stack. But that's just me, liking offensive fighters better than defensive ones. The downside of Disciplined Barrage is that it's an active buff that runs out after some time - and that doesn't stack with Zealous Focus. If you use Zealous Focus you can leave Disciplined Barrage out without too much loss I guess. Confident Aim is indeed better than Weapon Mastery. Without any damage bonuses Conf. Aim is a raise of ~8% damage and conversion on top. With every dmg bonus you get (MIG, enchantment, Weapon Spec. and so on) the multiplicative effect of CA gets stronger. That's why I take both - again. But you see that I have a different kind of fighter in my mind. If I had to decide between Weapon Mastery and Confident Aim then I'd pick Confident Aim. Knockdown also gets +1 accuracy per level (all offensive abilities do) - so it's easier to hit with a Knockdown than with auto-attacks. Maybe you don't need all the ACC you can get because of this.

ROFL - great one! You're so funny sometimes. I fear I'm repeating myself - but just for people who don't want to search in the tread: You have to siphon knowledge from Maerwald in order to get the sabre "Flames of Faîr Rhîan" from the Endless Paths. It has 3 Fireballs per rest. You can clone it later with the Helwax Mold in order to get another 3 or you take Bittercut which also has nice spellbindings. Add Taluntain's Staff which also has 3 Fballs. But before that pick up the Sun-Touched Mail of Hyan Rath (3 Sunbeams) and the Amulet of Summer Solstice (3 Sunbeams) - you will then have 9 Fballs and 6 Sunbeams. And so on. Simply use every spell binding gear with offensive spells you can find and choose the ones you like best (for example Swaddling Sheet instead of the Amulet oSS). But remember that spells don't work with Sneak Attack, only Deathblows. But the hit/crit conversion works and of course the high ACC is great. Also great of cause is to deliver one's own afflictions with Sunbeam or such spells. Spells like Minor Missiles or Overbearing Wave which do pierce, slash or crush damage will also trigger Deep Wounds. Besides the spells you can play him like a normal rogue. Maybe I should write a build description. I think this is the fourth or fifth time I write this down. But I'm sooo lazy atm when it comes to class builds...

Fighter's Weapon Specialisation and Mastry don't give you any accuracy, only damage bonuses (+15% and +10%). Persistance does more single target damage than Stormcaller (especially once you get durgan steel). Stormcaller can be better when it comes to foes who are resistant/immune to pierce damage. And also the reduced shock DR can be benefical for other party members (think of shocking lashes on party members' weapons). Low deflection on a barb is usually no problem after some levels because he becomes so beefy. His other defenses are as high or low as those of other classes. He can make up for the lower deflection with One Stands Alone: while otehr classes would get flanked in the fray the barb will maintain his deflection value. With Frenzy he will even have +16 fortitude, +24 with Greater Frenzy. So when it comes to defenses against prone, stun, paralyze and petrify the barb is one of the sturdier classes (as long as Frenzy is on).

But then you could also say that a Potion of Alacrity is the most powerful item in the game...

Dual wielding with the heavier one handed weapons - like sabres - actually does more damage with FoD in most cases (when enemies' DR is not superhigh - and if you crit in most cases). Dual hammers is also my favorite on a fighter. Because of the two damage tyes and also because Shatterstar is guarding and annihilating which fits a fighter quite well.

Ah - so it only works for the initial roll against deflection. Bummer!

Which is the real awesomeness.

1. Acuan Giamas 2. Munacra Arret/Spirit Spiral 3. Swaddling Sheet 4. Little Savior 5. Aila Braccia

Merciless Hand does nothing for DoTs, including Dragon Thrashed. Crits add duration to Dragon Thrashed (which is more powerful because it's multiplicative), not base damage - so Merciless Hand is a bit of a waste for a passive chanter with Dragon Thrashed. Second Skin seems to be the best pick. If you want to try something different for Pallegina then you can try Forgemaster's Gloves which summon Firebrand and pick any two hander as backup. Firebrand works with any weapon focus and if you crit with FoD the damage is really nice.

Sure, that's no problem Well some of it is simple facts. You can agree or not, they stay true. I have not turned a blind eye on that. I adressed it by saying that they fulfill different roles. You could also compare a cipher to a wizard and say ciphers are boring because they have a smaller spell selection. I just wanted to compare two melee guys with each other. For example you said that you like barbs - but they have less active abilities. One could argue that this is more boring than a monk's broad variety of active abilites (I don't say that, I like barbs - but it's a valid argument). So that comparison would make sense to me when it comes to a discussion about boredom. I could totally understand one finds chanters boring - there are some mechanics in that class that can lead there. But why monks? It can't be their mechanics, that's what I'm saying. Yes. Pretty obviously. Still a comparison should make sense. They are flavored with martial arts animations and unarmed combat. But that doesn't make them boring from a mechanics point of view. Because they are not bound to it. Name one ability besides Transcendent Suffering (which you get for free) that only works unarmed or is mechanically "centered" around unarmed combat. No, not some of them. All of them. There are only the Sandals of the Forgotten Friar that have anything to do with unarmed combat - and they are not monk-exclusive. Anybody can wear them and use them to boost fists' damage. They were interoduced in WMI because fists fall behind in the mid game and especially when you get Durgan Steel. Blood Testament Gloves work with weapons. There is no robe that has anything to do with unarmed combat. There are robes that have monkish lore and it's obvious that some monks in PoE like to wear them. And why not? Monks are associated with robes in a lot of cultures. That has nothing to do with unarmed combat though. It's also "canonical" to use quarterstaffs (See Greenstone Staff) or hatchets or clubs - if you want to stick to monks from our history - which you don't have to. I still see no reason to think that PoE monks can't wear other stuff if you wish so and if you find your perceived classic monk outfit boring. Several npc monks in PoE are wearing Padded or Hide armor by the way (Ulmar, Eorn, Foreman Ismey, Grynde and so on) - not very kung-fu-like. But just let's assume that most monks in PoE's lore fight unarmed and are wearing robes: why should you do the same if there's no reason other than self-restriction? If that was the case (can't remember, maybe you can find the quote) then it was either before WMI came out (no durgan steel nor immunities to crush) or I meant early to mid game. And even if I used to think that: I totally can change my mind when someone presents some good arguments and examples - or if the framework conditions change. Like you also can: not long ago you said that barbs are useless and rogues are the most powerful class - while in this thread you paint a different picture. It's not a bad thing to be sensible. I respect that you don't like monks - for whatever reason. I just wanted to understand why you find them boring. You pointed that out so much. Especially because I consider them to be one of the least boring classes in PoE - due to the potentially high micromanagement and also the bigger versatility than other melee guys have. I asked you if you mean boring in a way that the whole "monk theme" is boring to you (and thus you don't even care for the mechanics becausethe class is spoiled for you). Because that I can understand.

It's ok to find monks boring, but at the same time it is a very subjective and also irrational thing (as you say maybe imprinted because of D&D): PoE monks are better with weapons than with fists. Transcentend Suffering's ACC bonus doesn't work for Torment's Reach and also not for Force of Anguish. Fists can't be enchanted with a lash or durgan steel (both important dps features). They only do crush damage. They are good starters and ok backup weapons and that's it. Monks are better off with weapons. PoE monks' abilites are among the most powerful and versatile (of all dedicated melee classes) Their abilites are the most versatile and powerful of all melee focused classes if you ask me. And they work particularly better with weapons as I said above. There is no ability that only works with fists. So they are by no means focused on unarmed combat. The only thing is that the animations of Torment's Reach and Skyward kick look like fancy martial arts kicks. Comparing ciphers with monks is like comparing fighters to wizards. Their basic roles are different. If you compare a monk to a fighter you will see that the monk's abilites are a lot more versatile and also fun to use. His single target CCs are better and they are more plentiful (Force of Anguish, Stunning Blows, Enervating Blows, Skyward Kick), their damage both against single targets and AoE can be better than the fighter's (more speed via Swift Strikes, over 100% lash damage via Turning Wheel and Lightning Strikes as well as Blood Testament - and of course Torment's Reach), they can be build into great tanks as well (reflecting nealry all ranged attacks and also with powerful melee retaliation twists because of the lashes). Fighters have the advantage that their stuff works all the time without preconditions like having wounds - while the monk has a lot more potential. PoE monks are not limited to light armor like robes They suffer no special penalties from wearing heavy armor and there's also no lore that suggests that monks shouldn't wear it. The connection to D&D monks is understandable and I guess also intended (in order to get those players who loved the D&D monks), but if the player can detach himself from that image the PoE monk can be outfitted like any other melee frontliner. But they will always kick people, that's right. The thing about monks is that you have to manage your wounds in order to use most of your abilites to their full potential (although there are some abilites like Stunning Blows and Skyward Kick that work on a per-encounter-basis instead of spending wounds). This usually requires a high amount of maintenance if you want to play them effectively (at least with Torment's Reach and FOrce of Anguish). This is the reason why I first was a bit overwhelmed by the monk when I started with this game (too much to do while I was still figuring out the game). - but once you get the hang of it there is no melee class that is less boring in my opinion. But maybe we use "boring" in a different way here. I mean the mechanics - how you steer and play a monk - while I don't care about the "background" and lore of PoE monks (I just make my own). While I think you on the other hand mean the whole "vibe" of the monk class (influenced by D&D monks) that doesn't appeal to you, because they seem to scream "asian martial artist" (which I can understand: fancy kung fu dragon style martial arts stuff and also anime and Bruce Lee and so on are totally lost on me). Is that correct somehow?

Why is the monk class boring to you?

As far as I know the +12 ACC and hit-crit conversion work with FoA's fortitude roll. But I actually never played a one-handed monk. But even if not you will apply weakened more often through crits which will in turn lead to more prone enemies. But I guess you have to test. FoA works well with dragon-slaying. Despite the fact that dragons have high fortitude and +20 resistance to prone on top it's a great way do disable them (all but the flying one can go prone). You only need a paladin marker (Zealous Focus, marking weapon, Coordinated Attacks) and a priest (Insp. Radiance, Devotions). Paired with your own ACC (and the +1 ACC per char level FoA has) it's enough to send dragons to the floor reliably. Solo it's a different story of course. There is no draining stiletto that you can buy. The only draining stiletto I know of is Oidreacht and it sticks in the Giant Spider in level one of the Endless Paths. Maybe you mean Mosquito, the rapier. It fits your description. Yes, that's a good one because it also adds +5 ACC.

No lash damage for draining, sorry. Also healing bonuses don't work with draining. Weapons' ACC bonuses translate to FoA, yes. Unarmed ACC bonus from Transcendent Suffering does not. What about one handed style? +12 ACC and hit to crit conversion might be good for this. Sure, you lose a bit of attack speed, but you generate more crits for FoA.

Consecrated Ground's healing is nice in the early to mid game. But in the late game it's a bit weak.