Boeroer

He called it "Quicksand" several times: Something you keep throwing money and resources at and it just swallows it to no effect.

Yes - although Cipher/Rogue doesn't really have that many engagement+ abilities. Most notable is Persistent Distraction. You would focus more on that with an Unbroken/Trickster I think.

Through level-ups, some abilities and some items. Mostly levels. The tiers you see on the ability page (where you choose your abilities): each ability tier represents a Power Level. Multiclass characters can reach 7 PLs via level-up and Single Class chars can reach 9 (10 if they take the Prestige ability). Empower grants you additional Power Levels for the empowered ability, true.

IIRC it's with all those powers that you cast onto enemies and whch have a buffing effect on you (Wild Leech, Body Attunement and so on). But I'm not 100% sure anymore.

It's all about Offensive Parry. You will get focus for free every time any enemy misses you. Stacks with Riposte, too (so there's a change to retaliate twice on an enemy miss). Then Soul Annihilation dumps its raw dmg multiple times (with varying height) on all the enemies in the AoE (cone). I guess that's what you missed. It's a very good setup, of course best against mobs - not bosses. Switch to another weapon against single tough foes.

Not really. For example Psychovampiric Shield lasts even if you kill the enemy you cast it upon. That was the topic of a recent thread here. I also thought differently but when I tested it was proven wrong. Maybe it changed at some point, no idea. Psychovampiric Shield lasts longer with high INT (obviously) and I think also with Lingering Echoes (not 100% sure though) but most notably with Power Level (+5% multipicative with INT). So the more PLs you gain the longer it will last.

@Blunderboss: Yes, Thunderous Report is like an AoE dmg spell - so that's a nice use of the crit conversion as well. I somehow skipped that line of your post and only read Essence Interrupter. Sorry. I also liked using two Necklaces of Fireballs (that leads to 8 Fireballs per encounter). If you have Precognition (amulet) and Improved Criticals that also melts faces of charmed mobs pretty nicely. It's cheesy though because the replenishment of charged uses via stashing is def. not intended.

Yes, that wasn't changed. A good synergy is beams (Antipathetic Field or Ectopsychic Echo) + Combusting Wounds (Wizard or Ring of Searing Flames). There are some weapons which have a "hidden" second lash (Justice, Starcaller, Unforgiven) which generates additional focus. E.g. dual Starcaller/Unforgiven with Scion of Flame would do +30% burning lash and an additional 12% burning lash. Dual Unforgiven (via Helwax Mold) would be even better because of the attack speed. Another good weapon for a cipher is Bittercut with Spirit of Decay (also dual via Mold). Wounding lashes don't generate focus - so Tidefall and Drawn in Spring or Persistence will not generate focus with that DoT lash. Still great weapons - but maybe even better suited for other party members (best used with low INT). In general melee dps is higher than ranged. So focus gain for a melee cipher is better. Of course it's more risky, too. A not too sh!tty setup is to use two hatchets and profit from the +10 deflection. It's really an underrated combo. Combine with decent RES, Psychovampiric Sheld/Borrowed Instincts and some other deflection gear and you are sturdy. Or use a reach weapon like Llawran's Stick (speed - Durance's Staff as backup since it's crush/burn) or Tall Grass. Llawran's Stick is the best option for a reach weapon when it comes to dps<-->focus gain. You can also get it quite early. With Time Parasite and Durgan Steel Llawran's Stick can achieve 0 recovery without Gauntlets of Swift Action. You can still wear durganized Padded Armor - or even durganized Plate Armor if you also use Gauntlets of Swift Action.

Beguiler/Debonaire is cool. But instead of using a weapon to profit from the crit conversion it's better (in my opinion) to use Disintegrate. Getting focus usually is no big deal for a Beguiler (just cast Phantom Foes or Secret Horrors before using Whisper of Treason or Ring Leader) and then Disintegrate. It doesn't flip the alliance back if you cast it on charmed enemies (impossible with PoE, but no problem in Deadfire) where it then gains +50% duration from the crit. Which is a lot better in terms of dmg gain than +25% crit dmg for a weapon. Of course you can do both.

Yeah, the downsides of localisation and patching/rebalancing. Also text shouldn't sound too technical ("oh noooo my immersion") while it still should transport all the necessary info ("oh noooo my powergaming"). There are some examples where the text says something like "A significant chance of X" and it's actually 100%. See Debonaire crit conversion or Murderous Intent and such. Descriptions get locked at some point while they still tune the numbers. So they try to be a bit vague. I get that, it's ok. Still the generated part could be more informative and accessible. If it breaks immersion just hide it behind a game option. I mean you can hide/show selection circles, dmg numbers above your head and such. So why not show/hide more detailed numbers? Once again I point out that even designers didn't know how some mechanics worked. Else they wouldn't have given arbalests and guns -25% crit damage (which then had to be patched). Better tooltips and descriptions would have helped even those people.

Ok, good example.

Some mechanics are rather easy to grasp (Inspiration vs. Affliction for example), others are very complicated and only thorough experimentation or code inspection can reveal what's happening (e.g. double inversion with dmg mali). Some just seem redundant (action time/action speed/recovery time). Then some just don't work as expected (modals not stacking with active abilities). I wouldn't say arbitrary though. The explanation of mechanics is better than in PoE - but still rather bad. If you want to see a great way to explain mechanics via tooltips then have a look a Slay the Spire. They did an amazing job with communicating nearly every bit of mechanic on the fly.

Tyranny had cooldown mechanics (which I find horrible for several reasons) and also did disappoint - at least the publisher. I agree about the setting, but I wouldn't change the mechanics at all. They are in a good spot. Maybe improve consumables (make them more unique and not copy existing abilites etc.) and untangle the stacking rules. But then focus on story, quests, nice companions and a charismatic antagonist. Put in more exiting items (not necessarily gamebreakingly good, but exiting - I would also like items like trinkets that alter basic class mechanics - like those special passives on Path of Exile do). So basically give all different kinds of players (role-player, interactive novel reader, powergamer etc.) their pet without reinventing the whole wheel again. Don't put any more ressources into the core mechanics. And no minigames...

They were bought by Microsoft - so there's that with the independency and the fiscal score.

Don't forget that a lot of the base game's trash fights were removed with a patch some time after release.

I still blame it on the setting (mostly) - although I personally like it. But a lot of RPGamers are a bit conservative when it comes to settings. No idea if that's really the reason though. To me it also felt like Deadfire's marketing was nearly non-existent.

Afaik Deadfire was a disappointment (also because PoE was a pleasant surprise and Obsidian thought that a sequel would be a sure-fire success), but not a commercial failure. At least that's what Josh was hinting in his talks ("was doing okay"). So even in this case there is no true fact™ - unless you know the actual numbers. As long as I'm concerned very few discussions are actually useless. The most useless thing I encounter in forums is the overuse of the word "useless".

I read that as "big help" - and then realized that this is most likely what you wanted to write in the first place.

There is no injustice. Deadfire didn't meet the expectations of its target audience and thus it didn't sell as well as expected. But you made the assumption that sales numbers indicate quality. My examples merely show that this is not the case. Even only one negative example would be enough to falsify that theory. Sales numbers are influenced by a lot of variables - quality of the product is just one of them. Thus, drawing conclusions about the quality of a procuct while looking at sales numbers is a logical fallacy. Even if there are lots of examples where high sales numbers correlate with high quality this does not mean that there is causality. Because: there are examples that show otherwise. I'm not prejudiced. I played both games and my taste just happens to coincide with the observations of most critics who say that Deadfire is the better game. It even coincides with the taste of Steam users (who give it an overall "very positive" review while Kingmaker is "mostly positive"). I played other games that are of lower quality than their competitors but still liked them better. But me liking such a game wouldn't lead me to the assertion that it's a game of (overall) greater quality. You simply can't know why Kingmaker sold better (did it sell more copies though? I don't have numbers). Since sales numbers don't indicate quality per se - and you can't even know how those numbers come about in the first place - you can't use them to determine the quality of a game. And you cannot use them to compare games when it comes to quality. I mean you can, but then it's faulty reasoning.

If you look at metacritics you can see that Deadfire is 10 points above Pathfinder:Kingmaker. Sales don't tell you a lot about the quality of a product. Too much variables at play: price, trends, placement, marketing, zeitgeist, timing, reputation, fandom, nostalgia and so on and so forth. Reviews are better suited - even if they are influenced by the zeitgeist as well. Deadfire is of better quality than Kingmaker in most aspects. It should be - it had a much bigger budget and the developers were more experienced (on average). That doesn't necessarily mean it also meets the taste of most potential customers. Lots of people like that movie Fast & Furious - more than Drive. Does that mean that Fast & Furious is a better movie than Drive in terms of quality? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a superb movie. Did is sell well? Erm...

Which is relevant for this discussion because...?

Big Macs also sell better than Canard à l'orange, so...

@Blades of Vanatar: I guess you mean Godansthunyr and not Strike Hard? Strike Hard is def. good for cloning but since it has no stat bonus...?

Yes. But that only works with weapons (and shields). Other items' buffs (e.g. Ring with +4 INT) don't stack. Weapons' effects always do stack. For example two Little Saviors + Outworn Buckler in the party would grant all party members in aura range +15 to all defenses. Two Whispers of Yenwood would indeed give you +4 CON.

And now I trample in and say: "I didn't play both! Ahahahaha!"