MoxyWoo

Normal/Hard is easily survivable with a paladin that doesn't use a shield. There's the Gunadin which correlates with your two hander concept though, basically you use.. Flames of Devotion > Intense Flames > Burning Lash Enhancement + A big 2 handed weapon. The 100% above of the burning lash = huge chunky numbers. I ran the Darcozzi paladin with a 2 hander or gun eventually as tanking became less of an issue. YMMV, but I like Might and Dex, and dumping Per, as Res helped keep the concentration checks high and interrupts = annoying. Also with +10 inspiring +6 zealous +15 sworn enemy, you could actually do some okay dps over other classes, though arguably, a priest made your +6 zealous less of a good thing.

Paladins can 'tank' but don't bring anything else but that except for Darcozzi. -support skills dont stack as spells override aura -aura radius is tiny.. may effect others if they hump the paladin. Int does not help this. -rezz "kill" instead of "skill" -boring play -npc lack major defense bonuses so cant 'tank' unless main PC -tank role is equal or surpassed by fighter and others bring more cc or dps -the defense stuff helps for solo but in a group everything is mimicked and surpassed by items or other classes. -SUMMARY: not worth a slot when others are better. +darcozzi give really good accuracy and retaliate in early game above any other class.

Forgot the other optional talent of Dangerous Implements = increased damage for the above. Good chunky damage then.

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/1/ Other stuff to be aware of: Turning wheel seems to overwrite Transcendent suffering reported by some = less unarmed damage. Might does double duty increasing Transcendent AND the base damage. Sabres are arguably by the numbers the "best" torment's reach weapon later on, tho i think fists are still great until 2 superb.

Weapon/shield is great for sure, been toying with the idea that using that style along with weapon focus: peasant gives you a good defense/offense mode. Basically, you use the hatchet/shield to play tank, and the rare times fights drag out, you use the Parasitic Staff spell which does huge chunky damage and swings super fast. For ranged you have the usual arcane assault x2, your spells and similar. Realistically though, unless playing on PotD, the above combo is pretty unnecessary and summoned weapons only shine for the longer fights.

Mostly its there to mention that fortitude is higher than deflection for most monsters. Think of it like this, there's 2 classes now that enable -fortitude, but they took 2 talents/levels each to get there, and then barely get above what most debuff/cc spells would do anyway. 4 talents/abilities to hit ~20% better (even with -40 fort) for 1 character is a little rough. By then, with the debuff provided by Painful interdiction, most characters would rather pour out chunky dps. The painful interdiction is a priest enabling synergy though, so I'll add that in for them. Multiple barbarian beatsticks is a good party theme.

So STRONG and HARD like WOOD.

Luzaris' tactic works really well. Rogues have survival issues on the PotD difficulties to me when using reckless assault, due to how the AI works and will get past your front line usually, the ranger has more accuracy and can reliably use stalker's link with a priest backup. So for when "accuracy" does matter only, the ranger comes out ahead. In terms of preference, I'd rather take another wizard than a rogue for dps, cc, and even general beat sticking now that they have uber summon weapons or similar tactics. So, taking that middle ground of a ranger that provides the 3 man wall that is optimally good enough is a great thing, along with the damage they provide closer to being barbarian lite with driving flight. I guess the group dynamic if looked at should be on PotD... Ranger + Pet (tank lite) + 2 tanks + Priest + 2 dps/cc > Rogue + 2 tanks + Priest + 2 dps/cc Because having a 3rd tank type in is usually good, while all hard or below difficulties 2 tank types is fine.

Darcozzi is always a good option for the Inspiring (+10 accuracy) on an instant cast. You could also try Blunderbuss aka Gunadin... Burning lash + Intense Flames + Flames of devotion = 100% lash effect for every pellet = lots of damage. Think by the numbers you get like an average of 100 damage, assuming +100% dmg modifier, and penetrating shots (more so with Leadsplitter vs hard DR). Gives you almost that rogue alpha strike feel, and can be usable starting at lower levels with the Disappointer enchanted. Problem is the tightness of talents due to using things that require additional talents... Penetrating shots + Intense Flames + Inspiring + all the gunner/ranged stuff for a 2/enc ability.

From what I saw... whatever its engaged too + lowest deflection = what it targets. For example, I can hit Arcane Veil on my wizard who is in the back row with 3 others being attacked, and will always NOT be targetted. Rogue has double issues due to reckless assault, generally why its good to be a "pike" rogue for much of the game. Tall grass is also amazing on them later. Basically, the low deflection = i will hit you. For moon monks, I actually like sending them in front and then aoe nuking them. They'll self heal and you get damage + wounds = more damage.

What's funny is with early level game availability of items, i.e. only "Fine" weapons, its good to be a wizard with the new Parastic staff. 28 acc vs 34 acc of the fighters, and tagging things from the backrow for a minute due to the weapon buff is amazing. Not to mention it swings a lot faster, hits very hard and drains/give endurance like crazy. The most annoying monsters usually have bad reflex saves too for later Minor Blights or similar long weapon buff style which is cool to me. And probably why Arcane Assault is such a boss. Then again, its one less slicken cast or chill fog, so whatever, so many good options for them.

Yeah, I read originally the Ranger had shared health with the pet and a few other niceties like +20 accuracy when stalker's was up vs 10... Then the last few days of beta they basically nerfed them to the ground with the wounding DoT changed to whatever weapon type they were using, and some other stuff. Not sure what happened, even with the above it just comes out to a "good" class and not an overpowered one, but that's me. I think the AC micro and melee being crowded enough is what bothers me the most. I mean on paper, it seems okay, like pulling with your lion who has faster movement past a beat stick line, but then they get tagged with one arrow = death = your ranger is sad, or similarly, just trying to micro them to be a melee off-offtank is annoying, etc.

Thanks ^_^ you two. editted the OP

I think they built the WF: Adventurer around wizard originally. It gives a bonus to wand accuracy. Wizards prefer chunky 2 handers like Estoc (best dps for them next to Tidefall) due to Alacrity. Warbow has no "reload" animation that Alacrity would have issues off the other groups. It has flails... grazes > hits are probably the only thing lacking for them due to the lower accuracy initially. Paladins are actually served better with Sabres and chunky slow guns, so ruffian... Because Flames of Devotion + lash effects + huge base damage = huge hits.... least 2/enc. Pallegina seems to be geared this way as she has Zealos Focus which is mostly a gunner talent, and flames and her godlike racials are all +defense vs ranged or +defense vs disengaging.

Yeah, I used Aloth, though a proper wizard with Arcane Assault = ~20 raw damage per cast times 2... or 40 total in ~3 seconds (just use shift + click to cue 2 at once). With slicken/chill fog going on, and that, everything gets severely hurt/dies, and much quicker due to even cipher just barely casting their first spell due to the "average" speed of them. There's a lot of other classes that get multiplicative benefits, but I have a tough time justifying them over wizard x2. Moon monk may come close, but then the heals seem like overhealing, and even a melee rogue could at least use their CC effects much better, etc, so synergy seems to be lacking.

Yeah, others have said this before, but the pet micro is a little annoying. I usually had them trail behind in the last row so everyone was firmly being "engaged" to let the AC have a chance to survive. If I wanted to micro a thing that much, I'd use any other class that gets "benefits" from doing so, where as ranger feels like its just avoiding "penalties" for doing so.

Just a preference but I enjoy wizard 2x or more. Dunno why, but its super satisfying for trash encounters to cue up a bunch of Arcane Assaults and let them nuke away. Fire Godlike Cipher tank + Anitpathetic field is also good to me recently. Nothing fancy, just stack on DR/defenses, and retaliate by FIRE to gain focus and beam nuke in the front, or whatever other powers. Moon Godlike Monk. Just a personal favorite of mine with how they can gain Rooting pain all around them by taking an aoe from the backline or similar style, and heal the party/themselves and gain wounds. After that the group composition can vary but 3+ aoe dps makes life easier to me.

(Updated version in a new thread here. ==== Trying to compile all the newbie knowledge, and then some. Feel free to add your own, may become more than an info dump then. General Info (includes race, items, or game effects). [One defensive modal + multiple offensive modals] You can have one defensive modal on like Cautious attack, but can have multiple offensive ones on like Savage and Vulnerable. [Highest bonus: Weapon/shield + Worn items (helms, armor, gloves, rings, boots) + Spells (includes Paladin Auras) + Talents + Per encounter + Chants + Racials] PoE pulls from the various effects for your character to have the highest bonus in each. For example, I could use a +2 might weapon, and wear a +1 might glove, and have +3 total. [Wood Elf + Any ranged attack or spell] Unlike Marksman, this works on any ranged attack/spell. [island Aumua (optional) + Quick Switch + Slow weapons] With weapon swapping, the slower weapons like guns bypass much of their recovery issues. [Moon Godlike + Dumping Con] The endurance heals will make health more of an issue than dropping in combat. [~+100% damage modifiers + Dual wield + Two weapon fighting talent vs 12 DR] Roughly when dual wield starts to gain ground next to a big 2 hander for dps. Before then its a pretty non optimal choice for dps, but good for the speed of attacks and lack of overkill. 12 DR is what most monsters are at as well. [(Pale elf) + Shades, phantoms, spirit + Freeze DR] Pale elf does it easier, tho wizards or paladins can also do it well enough via spells or darcozzi. A lot less damage from one of the most annoying monsters. [Low Might Companions + Guns] Just my opinion, but guns are higher average damage and your companions tend to have low might scores giving an inflated "slowness" to combat a lot of times. Reload animation can be interrupted with skill spam, but the low might is never overcome by weapon selection easily unless you're talking about guns. [Companions + Roles + Party composition] 1 tank, 1-2 bad off tanks, and 4-6 dps/support are roughly the numbers of what builds are possible. Also there is no rogue, barbarian, or monk class. So it might be encouraged to make an offtank. [Dexterity + Animation times] Dex effects the actual attack animation AND recovery time. Where as attack speed is only on the recovery time. Reload (guns + crossbows) is never effected by either, except by Gunner, Surehand illa chant, and swift aim (ranger). Class (Includes anything that involve a class specific skill). [Ranger Swift Aim + Wounding Shot + Melee + (Stalker's Link)] They all work for melee. Wounding shot seems odd, but hobble effect is stronger than prone for -reflex which can help your casters or similar. [Ranger + Accurate Wounding Shot + Its a TRAP!] Only effects the fortitude accuracy, not the initial strike. [Ranger + Engage item + Hold the line + Pet] Can have as many 5 engagement slots total, just as good as a Fighter. Though the pet will die if its holding all the agro. [Ranger + Guns + Swift Aim + (Swift/steady) + (Surehand Ila from Chanter) + (Gunner)] Best in house dps with the big hitters like Arquebus and reload time. Lacking +dmg modifiers, they rely on the heavier base weapons. [Ranger + Lion] Bear is arguably one of the best of the worst pets, but Lion has a per encounter fear, along with faster movement that can come in handy for pulling or debufing. [Ranger + Backrow pet in formation+ level 5+] Your pets tend to die, or get in the way of real melee. Sometimes, its easiest to manage by keeping them out of the action or when others have firmly engaged. OR keep them in the last row for formation so they have to "catch up" when a fight starts to easily manage them. [Ranger + blunderbuss + driving flight + ITS A TRAP] 2 bullets instead of 6. BUGGED [Monk + Turning wheel + Transcendent Suffering + ITS A BUG!] Turning wheel will overwrite the monk unarmed damage bonuses occasionally with no way to fix it except to go back to a previous save. [Monk + Stunning + Enervating + Two weapon fighting +(Rogue)] See here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79105-105-monk-intresting-synergy-stunning-fist-enervating-blows-while-dual-wielding/ Or basically, you stun on first blow, then enervating blows has a much higher chance due to the debuff. Rogue is nice for the synergy of sneak attack dmg. [Monk + Moon Godlike + Wounds + Torment's reach (or any wound using ability)] More wounds = more heals = more beatings that will continue until things are dead. [Monk + Turning wheel + Rooting Pain + ITS A TRAP] Rooting pain is AoE damage, and does NOT get increased by Turning wheel [Monk + Offhand weapon + Unarmed main weapon] Attacks with offhand only, but with increased accuracy for "both". This means for Torment's Reach, you can hit a bit harder/accurately at the cost of auto attacks. [Monk + Torment's Reach or Rooting Pain + (Cone) AoE + Turning wheel] is unaffected by +Turning wheel modifiers or accuracy as its aoe and a spell effect. [Monk + Might + Transcendent Suffering (aka unarmed damage)] Might does double duty giving more +dmg for both the class passive and base damage. [Wizard spell lvl 3 Combusting wounds + Any Damage over time effect] Each tick of the DoT will make Combust go off for more damage. [Wizard (druid) + Self buffs/weapons + No recovery time] Self buffs have no recovery time and cast in less than a second. Buffing is pretty quick. Druid technically has spiritshift like this as well along with Firebrand. [Wizard spell lvl 3 Alacrity + Summoned weapon] Comboing with the above, the weapons also swing faster as of 1.05 and with Alacrity wizards become even better beatsticks. [Wizard spell lvl 3 Alacrity + spells] Alacrity effects recovery for everything.. spells and weapons. [Wizard spell lvl 4 Essential Phantom + spellbind items] has your "worn spellbind" items with full charges on cast. For example, using a minor gloves of light endurance, even if the player had 0 charges, the phantom gets 3. Note: weapons/shield slot not included. [Wizard spell lvl 3 Minor Blights + Blast + (Penetrating Blast)+ (Dangerous Implements)] The wand created by the spell does aoe damage, and then blast does it again. Becomes a crazy nuker this way and raw damage to self is neglible. Also see Alacrity for faster attacks. [Paladin + Darcozzi + Fires of the Palace + Vulnerable attack + Scion of Flame] Retaliation is a little harder to gain now, but the low damage of the fire retaliate means the above taken in that order will at least deal decent damage. Also targets reflex which is good for shade killing. [Paladin + Flames of Devotion + Enduring Flames + Burn Lash] The way it checks vs the reduced DR, its more effective to have a bigger bonus to one category, specifically, fire for the paladin. [Paladin + Darcozzi + Inspiring Exhortation + Spells that provide accuracy] One of the few ways to stack accuracy with other spells or effects. [Chanter + Any buff] Chants can stack with any buff with similar effects unlike spells where the highest overrides. [Chanter + Chanter(s) + Come Come Swift Winds of Death] These stack up on enemies and start to melt faces at the beginning of the game. [Chanter + Frost Chant + (Fleet foot)] Probably the only class that can reliably kite due to how monsters chase you and you drop frost traps. [Cipher Focus gains + (Fire Godlike) + Retaliate ] Burning/Retaliate up for your focus below 50% [Cipher + Front line position + Antipathetic Field + Targetting back row enemy] Is extremely high dps, like 30 to 60 every second to things in front of you and in melee with you even with 10 might. Consider making Grieving Mother this build if you have enough CC and support effects as her stats are a bit odd and as a human, she gets some racial +dmg/accuracy when below 50% where melee tend to be. [Cipher + (Rogue + Escape) or (Monk + Longstrider) or (Any tank + Fleet foot)+ Ectopsychic Echo] The rogue can teleport behind the enemy line producing a huge echo effect much like the above. [Cipher (Wizard)+ Opening with Confuse] Tenuous Grasp lvl 1 (Cipher) or Bewildering lvl 2 (Wizard), the effect is enemies engage the confused monster and beat them down. [Priest + Mechanics skill + Seals] They get higher accuracy, so consider making your priest the trap guy. [Priest + Inspiring Radiance + Spells that provide accuracy] One of the few ways to stack accuracy for the entire group/ [Priest + Painful Interdiction + Barbarians with Threatening presence/Brute force + (Fortitude spells)] One per encounter (painful interdiction) and the barbarians in your group can hit much better along with fort effects. [Rogue + Faster attacks] As damage modifiers can get pretty high on this class, faster = better. While most of the others prefer slower weapons for the better base damage. [barbarian + Fire Godlike + Carnage] Burning up for aoe melee attacks. [barbarian + Threatening Presence + Brute Force + its a trap] A NON COMBO: as fortitude actually is higher for most monsters with high deflection. That said, it helps land Fort effects like stunning blow from monk, but only gets "ahead" by other debuffs. [barbarian + Human or Nature Godlike + Vengeful defeat + Second chance item] +dmg or stats and kamikaze aoe damage ---------------- Some things weren't included like Rogue sneak attack as the in game description is accurate enough. This thread purpose was more to gather information that's a little off the beaten path, or frequent asked questions I've seen. Thanks for reading, and please comment/add to the thread below!

Ranger can use Wounding Shot + Swift Aim Modal to swing a chunkier 2 hander faster and provide the hobble then too. But more rogues makes it even better. Great synergy and find again!

I like the female model with head 1 or 2, but yeah.. for the dudes, definitely not rocking the vibe they bring.

Lol... its why I have a tough time with ranger.... Its like they're almost there. Best I could do was a melee ranger for a bit, the stalker's link is much easier to manage if your ranger engages first and tanks for them. Problem is, I kept thinking if I wanted max accuracy, I'd use vicious which was incompatible with melee not to mention they didn't have particularly tank worthy things to do. Another easier way that resulted in less deaths, was to keep the pet all the way in the back row for a formation so when I hit the backspace + attack one guy thing to start a fight, at least they'd have to chase down whatever. All that aside, I'm getting older, so managing one more "thing" was annoying when I just wanted my ranger to deal good dps like my rogue did.

Yeah, I put my rogue with a warbow and didn't bother to micro that much. Probably heavily influenced by how the +dmg modifiers are better off faster weapons just like everyone else, but, practical optimization... a heavy/slow one for an opener > warbow was best which I didn't do til later. So.. as others have said.... heavy hitter > warbow is probably the best "weapon"... This thread was just to show raw and big chunky numbers, but again, practically, the ranger fires faster, has a duty of dealing damage to 2 targets vs 1 like a weird ranged barbarian, and additional utility via rooting pain, etc. Whether its worth more than a rogue's single comes down to a style choice as "dps" is equal with just driving flight supposedly, and rangers fire faster with the big guns.

After damage reduction from what I remember of my monk time. I made a high deflection monk one time and couldn't get wounds. Eventually, I went lighter armor, two weapon style, etc, and it worked out fine. I'll echo Moon monk is pretty great. So much good synergy. Edit to add: Also Rooting Pain is pretty decent for the "retaliate" feel so won't really be missed by not going Fire God-like after level 7+. And MIGHT effects healing from Moon, and does double duty for the Transcendent + Fist (from what I read).

Alrighty, going into a little more depth for druid. Druid has over the other Tier 1 casters, front loaded damage, spirit shift, and a really long duration blind. Most of their spells are specific or redone by other classes in Tier 1 except for one combo where the wizard needs an additional Bulwark spell: +DR 8 (10 with Bear) on a naked caster is very strong for Act 1. Specifically, the shade encounters can be done a lot easier if you back yourself into a corner, or take the front lead with a nuke for the oncoming initial swarm of them. They also have best in house fire damage now which those spirits are weak too due to the fan of flames being lowered and provide blind status at a much longer duration which is good. +Wolf form helps with positioning and provides the above. The rare times you want your caster to get to X spot faster, the druid does it best and doesn't need a talent spent on fleet foot this way. -The forms are all beefy beatsticks for melee damage. Additionally, I think without a wizard x2, and they are more self contained this way.. +Sunbeam is a great opener, and provides a very long blind effect. This middle ground of CC and higher ground of damage makes them as good as a wizard with slicken/chill fog, though enemies can still attack. +Winter wind does half the damage roughly of chill fog in one cast, hence the front loading alpha. Handy for openers. -Talon's reach has interrupt and a fast cast vs deflection. Buff wise priests still win out, Woodskin gives good DR but not for the things you worry about in Act 1... Plus druid is much more damage heavy than the priest/wizard at these levels so it seems like a waste to use them on anything else. Even with those advantages, my issues still stand for the druid not breaking into Tier 1. The game changer they have over wizards and ciphers is only sunbeam where as the resource spam of arcane assault x2, or cipher focus based powers will continue to be handy for every fight, now if they could cast just as many as those two classes, then druid would be tier 1, but sadly, spiritshift has issues for their "encounter" mechanic to me. Melee is still crowded, assuming you go 1 main tank (because you wanna avoid the crowding), and with the small duration of the spirit shift its hard to recommend the druid as your "offtank" without either a) sacrificing their casting speed in heavier armor once it runs out or b) losing deflection so much due to shield loss that they critted more often. or c) the bigger shield gives -acc penalties when you want their spells to land. They also don't have the near instant "drop agro" the wizard has via arcane veil for the rare emergencies, so spirit shift is good for a specific party where you load up druid(s) or other casters with cones in the front and nuke away... But then it becomes an issue of the nukes, because a wizard/cipher has more resource than them or the fact we dropped a true offtank for the druid to shine. This said, I guess I wouldn't take a druid "tank" who could switch to spell mode in the front line, because it also seems like a lot of work when a monk who gets nuked by AoE gets more wounds, or a fighter recovers through it, or similar. Again, Tier 2 means they have a "gimmick" as strong as the Tier 1 classes (Spiritshift + casting sunbeam) but they don't have the resource spam as much, or their resource isn't nearly as good. And since priest has one of the better debuffs per encounter, and possible support spells/better setup than the druid, they won't be knocking them over. Of course, resting itself is an illusion of time... but it is annoying to do X amount of load screens to have a class reach its full potential via spell spam, and then its again... a nod to cipher or wizard or priest. Thanks for reading, hope that explains why they don't quite get into the Tier 1.

Back when the attack sheet wasn't broken. I did some tests and the magical break point at 12 DR which is most non boss mobs was +90% dmg and 5 Dr reduction Via vulnerable Assuming alacritY to beat out estoc for dps. The thing is... the difference isn't much and swinging faster for non wizards means two weapon is good too as they have a 20% swing faster talent which is much more handy and closes the gap the wizard has with 2 handers. Of course at 20 dr... sabres fell behind by like 5 dps or something. Basically the boss mobs they don't keep up cuz estoc is just that good by the raw numbers.