SamuraiGaijin

Wait a minute! Are you telling me you thought Bao-Dur was voice acted well? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK - by "good" I mean that it frequently added to the experience and only rarely detracted from it ... I was neutral to Bao-Dur - while his voice acting was not especially well done, it didn't grate on my nerves like Vrook's monotone (in K2) or the super-repetitive phrases used for the Rakatan (in K1).

Revan - LSM - the relationship with Bastila was a key element of the plot for me - sure, you could have her ally with you if you were DS, or save her form the DS if you were female, but the relationship made more sense as LSM. Exile - LSM - the Exile's relationships with Atris, Visas and Brianna were much better done than any other in the game (aside from the Exile's interaction with Kreia). While Hanharr was an interesting character, he's not a critical part of the plot - and the relationship between him and Mira is much more interesting from her point of view. In terms of importance to the plot, Brianna beats Mikal hands down. I could see either character (or both) as being DS, but it wouldn't fit in the SW universe for the main character to be evil. Also, destroying the Star Forge and destroying Malachor V are suitable endings, in my opinion, for the SW universe - where the alternatives are not.

BTW - according to the poll, I'm a lawyer ... Below is a lengthy synopsis of the aspects of immersion that I feel are significant, In order of importance: Game Mechanic / Interface - how natural does it feel to play? - One place where K1&K2 fail in this regard is selecting the type of attack / force power / item to use in combat ... three seconds per combat round is not long enough to sort through all the friendly force powers trying to find "heal", and pausing the game to do so (or enabling the "pause every combat round" option) breaks the pace of combat. Voice Acting - does the voice match the character? Does the inflection / tone / emotion match the situation? - K1&K2 did a good job here. HK-47 is my favorite character from K1, not in small part because of the inflection in his voice - Mira in K2 for the same reason. The only really bad example I can think of is the choppy, monotone droning voice of ed Asner as Vrook. The alien voices were generally done well, but the constant repetition of (it seemed like) the same five or six phrases over and over got old quickly. I would have liked a PC voice, but oh well. Graphics Consistancy - is a similar level of detail applied to the textures & models? - Another area where K2 was distracting ... it was obvious to me that the level design for Malachor V was very rushed, especially when compared to (for example) Trayus Academy or Dantooine. Also, the fog effects (particularly on Malachor V and in Visas' meditation chamber on the Ravager) are miserable (which is inexcusable to me, cosidering the steam vents on Koonda were very well done). If all the graphics are consistantly cheesy, then it's possible to still be a good game, but if some models look like glossy photos, and others look like a scanned image from a photocopy of a page in a well-worn book, then it's distracting. Sound Effects - does it sound real? - One (minor) failure of K1&K2 is the frequent repetition of the effects used for creatures in combat - for example, every merc makes exactly the same sound when they die. Weapon sound effects were generally good, but aside from squealers, ranged weapons all sounded the same - disrupters / blasters / ions / bowcasters should all sound different. Background sound effects (wildlife making wildlife noises, for example) falls into this category as well - and I thought K1&K2 did a good job in outdoor settings, but not so much indoors and especially not in spaceships. One particular item I especially enjoyed was the voices in the background in certain locations - the prison box in K1 (don't open the box!!), the "force listen" lessons (although I never heard the "echo" that the Exile heard), and Visas' meditation chamber are specific examples where it was exceptionally well done. One thing that bothered me was when the lead character movement sound mysteriously dissappeared (T3-M4 in Vogga's warehouse, for example). Sound Effect Placement - does it sound like its coming from the right place? - K1&K2 do this pretty well, and in some cases, they did great (of course, my el-cheapo 5.1 speaker set doesn't do my THX-approved Audigy2 sound card justice - but my high-end 5.1 headphones do). That said, for other than immersion purposes, sound placement doesn't have a significant impact on CRPG's - for FPS's on the other hand, it could be a critical part of gameplay. Soundtrack Music - does the background music add or detract from the experience? - SW:ANH was one of the first movies to have music playing almost throughout the entire film (all hail John Williams), and K1&K2 do a pretty good job here. The music sounds like it belongs in the SW universe, changes pace when expected, and each locale (and most major characters) have their own themes. There are more ... but I've covered pretty much all aspects of sound, and most of the remaining immersion items are visual fluff and aspects that impact the pace of the game (load times, cutscenes, etc) ... and the post is long enough. BTW - I'm not a GPU whore - I'm an across-the-board gaming experience whore - and this post has reminded me that I really need to upgrade my speakers.

LA approves all SW material - granted, there always will be inconsistancies - or certain things that are true, from a certain point of view. I recommend watching the original series DVD's with the commentary - GL goes into some pretty in-depth explanation about why Obi-Wan dies in the first place (a last-minute change to the SW:ANH script) and why GL felt he had to return in SW:ESB.

I voted "other" ... so I'll explain ... I like the game - it's a good distraction (flawed, buggy, and rushed - but still a good distraction). I like investigating all aspects of the game, not just class combos, but the side quests (and the different ways to complete them), DS/LS choices, influence choices (and the resulting dialog), etc., etc. Nearly all my PC's end up being basically the same by the end of the game (which was kind of dissappointing with my second playthrough - I was expecting a Consular/Master to be significantly different from a Sentinel/Watchman - the main differences are less skills (which was frustrating) and access to Force Forms (which was cool)). There's just not enough distinction between one 30th level Jedi to the next - the final quests (Ravager and Malachor V) are almost exclusively hack and slash. I've played many of my replays just to explore more of the game - not so much the class combos. For example, I recently played a DS Sentinel/Lord with the sole goal being to get access to the deeper background of HK-47, G0-T0, and Hanharr - which was worth it. The game I finished today was played in order to explore the Name Crystal - when does it "level up" (PC Level 12, 15, ... 30, 33) and can it change "color" based on LS/DS shifting (yes). Other games have been played with a certain personality types in mind (superficially self-centered, but ultimately good - manipulative - saintly - diabolic - light saber combat master - force power master). I guess you could say I'm "milking the game for all it's worth", but I'm just now starting to reach the point where I think I've seen just about everything there is to see - and I've played through probably a dozen times. I play it because it's still interesting to me, not out of some desire to "get my money's worth" - I did that with the first few playthroughs.

I agree that the party members the Exile turned to Jedi (Mikal, Brianna, Mira, Bao Dur) and Visas should be the ones to help Vandar, Bastila and Juhani rebuild the order. I'd prefer Jolee stay neutral to the order, and be the catlyst for one of the major quests (or the tutor for Grey Jedi). Their roles could be: - Vandar: Jedi Master - leader of the Jedi Order - Bastila: Jedi Master - Headmistress of the Jedi Academy - Juhani: Jedi Master - "trouble shooter" - the one they send to take care of "hostile negotiations" - Brianna: Jedi Master - Historian - Visas: Jedi Master - talent scout - the one who searches for prospective Jedi - Mikal: Jedi Knight - primary force power instructor, and trainer for Consular PC's* - Bao-Dur: Jedi Knight - primary lightsaber instructor, and trainer for Guardian PC's* - Mira: Jedi Knight - primary skills / problem solving instructor, and trainer for Sentinel PC's* The PC should start as a young non-Jedi-class PC (Scout, Soldier, Scoundrel, and possibly Tech Specialist) and the general timeline could go like this (I know I'm borrowing ideas from previous posts). ~ Level 1-5: initial quests involve proving yourself to Visas, so that she'll take you to the Jedi Academy, and training quests for Mira, Bao-Dur, and Mikal. (DS path could begin with failing to impress Visas, and being recruited by Yuthura Ban as her disciple, Grey path could be another option, with Jolee taking you under his wing) ~ Level 6: Select a Jedi Class* ~ Level 6-9: Padawan quests - with the appropriate trainer accompanying (or solo quests for Grey/DS Jedi) ~ Level 10: get accepted (or rejected - for another possible DS/Grey branch) as a Jedi Knight and assigned a Padawan (possibly from your party?) (Those that started as Grey/DS could possibly convert one party member as well) ~ Level 10-15: Jedi Knight quests ~ Level 16: based on your performance, and your Padawan's, either get selected to be a Jedi Master (or choose a prestige class*), to remain a Jedi Knight, or (if you really botched things up in the eyes of the council) exiled (for another possible DS/Grey branch). ~ Level 16+: final (Jedi Master level) quests - possibly leading an expedition into the unknown regions to track down clues about Revan and the Exile One of the things that will be a dramatic deviation from the current mechanic is the (mostly) even experience point spread, with party members leveling up to nearly your PC's level upon joining the party. Proper level separation should be maintained between you and your instructor, and you and your padawan. Party members join the party "as is" (but will level up somewhat quicker than the PC at first, since lower levels require less XP). I'm something of a d20 purist, and believe that the 20-level cap is a good thing - if it coutinues to be unlimited (as in K2), then the feat and force power trees need to be deeper (not longer - we don't need more feats or powers - we need more opportunity to focus on the ones we have - and use). The Jedi Weaponmaster/Sith Marauder did this fairly well with Superior LSaber Specialization and Two-Weapon Fighting, but I would liked to have seen Deulist (at a minimum) included on that list. All of the force powers could have five or so tiers (one possible option here is something akin to the metamagic feats in 3e D&D - Empower Spell - increasing potency - i.e. damage done, save difficulty, etc., Extend Spell - increasing duration, and Enlarge Spell - increasing area of affect - could all apply. You should also be able to improve your focus on the Force/LSaber Forms. * - assuming the d20 system, classes, and prestige classes are all retained (and since d20 is the system used for the PnP SW:RPG, it probably will be)

In the un-modded game, Visas can only sacrifice herself on the Ravager, during the Nihilus fight, if she's equipped with regular clothes and a melee weapon. (You get to recover all her gear from her corpse, so don't sweat stripping her of useful stuff.)

Have to confirm all above ... the "improve that skill, and then talk to me again" quest does not give you any bonuses whatsoever ... however, some of the skill bonuses you receive do actually apply (but only if you're not maxed out in the skill already).

For party interaction, I really liked the conversations the K1 party members would have during the game (not just in the Ebon Hawk, like K2), and thought it gave some more depth to their character. I wish there had been more of it ... a T3/HK conversation, for example, could have been really interesting. I also preferred that each party member (except T3 - unless you count acquiring him in the first place) had a side quest (or part of the main quest) as part of their back story. In K2's favor, I really liked each party member had at least one special ability that made them, well, special. Granted, some were more useful than others ... in fact, aside from Kreia's force bond and XP bonus and Handmaiden's conbat skills, I didn't use any of them much more than was required (Bao-Dur's shield-breaker, for example), but they did add to the flavor of the characters.

Jolee may have been slightly LS, but did not receive any bonus or penalty to FP usage of LS/DS force powers ... he was definitely good, even if he was neutral as far as force usage was concerned. Once you passed the "point of no return" down the DS path of the game, Juhani and Jolee both turn on you and Bastila.

Correct - but with your "average" fully upgraded saber (before crytstals) doing 9-39 points of damage already (up to 11-57 with regular crystals, and up to 20-60 with your name crystal), the added bonus of exceptionally high STR is kind of over kill. I guess it really comes down to ... would you rather have a PC with: - awesome defense and attack, but average damage (Finesse + DEX focus) - awesome attack and damage, but average defense (STR focus) - or - - above average defense, attack, and damage (balance between STR and DEX)

Yes

You only see Bastila (not a holo or vision of her) if you choose LS Male for Revan.

I prefer LS, mostly because the LS choices just come more naturally to me, but I have played DS a few times. It's definitely worth it to role play different character types - unfortunately, the choices that award the most frequent DS points are generally poorly written, and geared towards simply causing an individual pain and suffering, instead of serving a deep and sinister evil plot.

One option, which actually would fit with a fairly well-roleplayed Grey Jedi (curious about all aspects of the force) would be to get enough DS points to gain access to the tomb, and then make LS choices in the tomb to get back into the Grey area.

As for the most enjoyable, with a good return for the time invested, I'm going to have to go with the duels ... For example, I usually kept Bendak's Blaster as one of Carth's blasters for the duration of the game. The turret sequences in K1 got old quickly - leave a planet, ready to take a break and the next thing you hear is Carth announcing that we've got incoming fighters ... K2 was better, especially since you could bypass them completely if you wanted ... I did like that you could blow up all the containers on Peragus ... if only you got XP for killing them with the blaster turret. I enjoyed the swoop races in K1, but K2 swoop races continue to frustrate me more than anything else ... plus, there was story-related dialog associated with the races in K1, along with generally meaningful side quests. Pazaak is fun as a distraction, but it takes too long to play through all the required games to get to the ultimate goal ... the only time I'll regularly play pazaak is with the Rodian on Yavin Station.

I'm pretty sure I've seen almost everything possible in the game, and there are still unanswered questions ... keep reading these forums, and you'll see that many are discussed and speculated on here ...

As for HK-47, Hanharr, and G0-T0, I strongly recommend you play DS work on their influence (Hanharr's can be done almost completely with his dialog) and hear their stories. HK-47 was a bit frustrating, as it took me almost the whole mid-game with him in the party to get influence high enough to get all the way through his dialog, but it was worth it. He was much more satisfying in K1, though. I disagree with you about Mira - I believe that subconsciously, she doesn't want to be a bounty hunter, but she just happens to be good at it, and it's all she really knows how to do, until you show her the force. Now, that said, going straight up to Visquis and hoping to collect on your bounty was a bit naive.

role-playing is about options ... and while more/stronger force powers are a good option, they're an option ... as are the options of: - Weaponmaster/Marauder: more feats/better LSaber forms - Assassin/Watchman: more skills/sneak attack (OK, not a great option, but an option) You don't *have* to use any of the skills - all of the skill-based options are just that, options. However, some of the Persuade-based dialog options are darn funny ... throw in Force Persuade and Force Dominate, and you get some really good ones. Even with maxed out CHA and CHA/Persuade items, without several points dedicated to the skill, you don't get the good choices.

The only thing I really hated was the monotone, choppy reading Ed Asner did for his voice for most of his lines. While he may have been a hypocrite in his arrogance, he represented the aspect of the Council we've been lead to hate - the "wait and see" approach.

Sentinels allow more role-playing opportunity ... by opening more dialog options early in the game. Also, while they may have been completely constructed by Bioware for K1, if only to have a third Jedi class option, but IMO they fit well into the SW universe and d20 system. The Jedi class selection test in K1 was a good way to define the differences, as well ... For example - upon coming to a locked door, would you bash it down, try to open the lock, or knock. I see the Consular/Master as the type of Jedi the council would send to negotiate a truce between governments. I see the Sentinel/Watchman as the type of Jedi the council would send to investigate a problem or scout unknown territory. I see the Guardian/Weaponmaster as the type of Jedi the council would send to defend their interests, especially when they suspect "hostile negotiations" (to borrow a line from SW:AotC) are likely.

I would rather have had two hard fights with him ... the dialog during Malachor V fight was pretty well done, especially if you worked up influence with HK-47 and got to the "How to kill Jedi" tutorial with him.

Incidentally ... I wish OE had included another option for Superior duelist feats for Weaponmaster/Marauder ... I had master duelist/master critical and no two-weapon fighting the first time I picked Weaponmaster, and was shocked/dissappointed to find that the bonus feats didn't include superior duelist.

You're missing the primary differences between the classes: - Guardian: fastest feat progression, force jump - Sentinel: fastest skill progression, immunities - Consular: fastest force progression, more effective force powers/force resistance The major differences really come from the prestige classes: - Weaponmaster/Marauder get access to better fighting forms and feats, which are great for focusing on fighting - Assassin/Watchman continue to get lots of skill points, and improved sneak attack - Sith Lord/Jedi Master get access to Force Forms (which can extend duration or intensity of powers), which are great for focusing on using force powers Skills give access to so many dialog options in the game, and save time having to switch characters to open doors/boxes or disarm/recover mines (all worth XP ... your current level x10 ... which adds up to about half a level's worth of progression on G0-T0's yacht alone) ... by the time you're ready for a prestige class, neither Guardian or Consular can come close to Sentinal in skill progression, but Sentinel comes close to both in number of feats and force powers. With the importance of skills, especially early in the game, Sentinel is an obvious choice to me - then Weaponmaster for LS, or Sith Lord for DS (I just don't like the "rage" ability, and usually feel that DS'ers would focus more on using the offensive force powers than fighting with weapons).

I can't believe I never thought of that ... the miner's uniform also allows addition of underlays. I usually get him Krath Holy Armor, and limit his Force Powers to those that aren't restricted by armor (Heal, Force Wave, etc.). What frustrated me most about the armor restriction is that he's limited to only medium armor - no robes, no light armor, and can't get the heavy armor feat.