Volourn

"Meh, the industry's already hard-pressed enough to barely even bother branching out in any significant way beyond completely linear stories before even taking into account possible deaths" Meh. BIO did it in BG2 with Yoshimo of all characters. P.S. I also think IIRC that Obsidian had planned something where Kreia wasn't neccesaarily going to be the final battle in KOTOR2; but the HOT chick was. "used the same storytelling methodology as PST. " IIRC, All the PST npcs could die and they'd stay dead. In fact, like the Bgs eries you didn't have to have any of them in your party. None of them were essential though they did add to the story. Yet, PST managed to have a rather good story if I do say so myself.

Come on, dummies. No need for such uncouth flaming. " P.S. Let's behave. This threa dis awesome and shouldn't be forced into a lockdown. P.P.S. Eldar, while kinda cool, is still wrong in his misunderstanding of the whole concept of alignment.

"main plot....Kreia, for instance, was an inner circle character" Meh. They could ahve written the KOTOR2 story in a way to make it possible for Kreia to die... they just didn't bother... And, I;m not picking on Obsidian either.. KOTOR1 was guilty of this as well... However, KOTOR does not equal NWN2. NWN2 is a D&D game. Unlike KOTOR, D&d is about the combination of story, characters, CHOICE, and challenging combat. Game over. P.S. Hades wins.

"There are 8 possible alignments for a sentient being?" Please (I know you won't ) stop talking about alignment. Your errors are compounded. Those "8" alignments as you put it are a general coverage of one's alignemnt and encompass many nuances. They're not specifc details. One LG character cana ct completely differently than another LG character and still be LG, fterall.

"I told you you'd help. :Eldar's sharing an inside joke with Vol icon:" Heh. :D I seriously doubt that obsidian changed this because of me. I'll share a little secret with you - Obsidian doesn't like me, and they simply tolerate my prescence. I doubt, again, that they chnaged this or would change anything because of me... nor would I expect them to. "However, I am serious that I hate alignment." Of course you do. It's easy to hate soemthing you don't understand. Considering the fact you confuse alignment with repuation it';s not surprising at all. "Hey, there was too much love. hahaha." We can disagree with each other loudly and rudely, and still each other. :"> Raven wrote: "Evil alignments have no moral codes, they lack morals altogether." R00fles! :D You win.

"Are you saying that your history in one town gives you the same rep in another town?" Alignment does NOT equal reputation. "Alignment is nothing more than reputation." False. False. False. Do you even play D&D? Alignment is your moral code. And, none of this 'real world black and white everyone is gray' pooo poo attitude. Alignment is your moral code. Reputation is your reputation. Both NWN, and (according to Obsidian) NWN2 as well, have both an alignment and reputation system. If alignment simply = rep why would they both with 2 different systems? Your logic here is horrendous. That is unusual for Eldar the Excellent! "Having someone tell me that his history makes him the paragon of goodness while he acts out the role of a wretched villain doesn't make him evil." Yo, McFly, in this situation, the perosn's alignment would CHANGE. Alignment is NOT static. Gah. D&D Noobs. :ph34r:

"I think it's perfectly reasonable to make everyone True Neutral. That way, you can prove what you are. It's easy to say you're Lawful Good, but actions speak louder than words." Your character is anywhere from 16 (humans) -120+ years (elves); you have had plenty of time to make the chocie. The act of choosing an alignment at character creation in D&D signalfies your character's history, and past moral code. Are you going to see all teens are of the same moral fibre? That's a joke... not to mention an elf who has lived over a century by the time they reach adulthood. Let's also not get started on clerics. As a cleric you have to worship a god who fits your alignemnt 9within a certain degree; not exact) so it seems silly a TN cleric would worship certain gods. Forcing alignments at start of game = bad form on part of Dm. Game over. "You are dealing with 3rd edition rules, any alignment goes." W H A T ! ? !

Ironmad mode would be great if crashes didn't destroy it. LOLOLOLLIPOP Ironman Mode dependent on computers = badness

"Ah, don't be such a sour-puss." Hey, I did *try* to laugh! :D It just wasn't funny enough to do so.

I'm trying to laugh at your adacity of hyperbole; but I failed the roll on the laugh-a-meter. "

Nah. Super Mario Brothers did that with the Princess. But, the graphics weren't up to the task. I know the Princess is why I played those games.

"It's good they changed it. I pick my characters alignment like I pic their sex or avatar. Now if my alignment changes during the game, well that is good. You get what is coming to you if you do good or bad deeds." P.S. Did you guys even read the aticle before replying to the thread, or even the first post? LOL :D P.S.S. 'retreat' Ha, silly me! :D I wish i could edit that nonsense. "agree.... I just hope it's not as... rigid as the first NWN." What do you mean? NWN actually underused the alignment stuff. I hope (as they have stated) they use it more. I'm thinking KOTOR series/PST amount.

Yes, read the article. According to the article, the PC chooses their alignemnt and your actions in game may change the alignment (ie. the example I gave above). That's a good thing.

"It's meaningless with reload." This is absolutely false. No one forces you to reload just because an npc dies. It's meaningless if you make it meaningless.

"That's stupid. I dictate what alignment my character is, not the bloody game." They changed that. Unless you mean the fact your alignment can chnage during the game? I;m glad they're doing it that way. It is only logical. Afterall, just because you choose LG at the start doesn't mean you should stay LG after mass murdering a whole town. Are you saying it's acceptable for a LG character to commit mass murder of innocent villagers? ? Hmmm... :ph34r: P.S. This is a Celebration Thread tm.!!! "

Ask Obsidian. They were planning to force everyone (save those classes with forced alignments ala paladins) to start off True Neutral. Read the article. " I'm glad they changed their minds. Now, on to the death rule!!!!

http://www.gamebanshee.com/editorials/e32006page7.php Mostly a retreat of past articles; but one important new tidbit: "but they

I find Epiphany fine. It's the people whining about him because he has a different opinion that are hilariously entertainingly annoying. I mean, seriously, he likes the x-box 360 a lot. Big friggin' deal, peeps! (w00t)

"So Volourn, are you saying having perma-death is more important than having a good story? I can honestly say that the most important thing in any game I play is the storyline." I think it depends on the game, actually. In some games ala FF then ya the story should come first and the way they usually handle death (ala KOTOR) is just fine. But, in DnD, the story should be written with that in mind. PST, and the Bg series both have some of the best stories in games yet they all allow joinable npcs to die permenately. You cna have a story focused game withoyt having an npc so entwined that the story becomes meaningless. In fatc, if your story in a game is so hinged on one particular character (outside of the PC, that is) than your story is weakened, imo. Yoshimo is a great exmaple of this. He's important in a particular plot point yet BIO managed to write around it in an intelligent way. They didn't do so well with Imoen in Irenicus' Dunegon; but they did a passable job (have her run away/disseappear when she is close to 'dying')... I think a good writer - and Obsidian surely has those - can write a good story without being so dependent on some joinable npc.

"toee did an okie dokie job with implementation of d&d wounding and dying rules... and we is just fine with 'em. would be tougher to pull off with real time" Meh. These rules worked well enough in NWN (not used in the OC) as well so it most defeinitely cna work in 'real time'... 6 seconds per round in real time gives you alot of time to patch up your teammates.

Yup. And, BIO didn't redo that mistake. Even in HOTU, resurection (outside of the gift rez rod at the start) wasn't easily come by unless you were a cleric. And, it's one of the things SOU did well outside of ch1.... (though you techincally couldn't die in ch1 since you were ported back to base ). But, even in the OC, at least your companion *could* die. None of this 'he's just unconcious'. But, still, both the NWN OC and the KOTOR way are far from ideal in a D&D game. Acceptable in the KOTORs; but not here. Game over.

lol Rez doesn't make death temporary. Death is permenant. Rez is not just soemthing you can flick your wrist , and have it done (well, it shouldn't be anyways). 99% of the time someone dies theya re dead even in the Realms. Rez is very costly in terms of gold, experience, and so on. Not to mention there are many ways to make ressuretcion IMPOSSIBLE to use. Both raise dead, and ressurection have time limits. They both need parts of the body (even a small part) so if a companion dies and you are forced to run, you'll likely never be able to raise them. And, npc clerics don't tend to cast it on other sjust because they pay money, and most definitely not on those who view things differently. Well.. games like Bg series don't count which makes that trivial. Real death, and real ressurection are awesome! (real in the sense of fantasy land, lol_ R00fles!

No, no it doesn't.

Whiney Internet Geeks = First game released since the coming of the internet whatever game that was. <>

These are NOT books. These are games. You might as well cut out combat completely, have no reload button, and have the game control the PC's choices... afterall, don't want anything to intervere in the story, right? The whole point of writing a story for a game instead of a novel or a movie is that you should try to make the story work with the game. Period. "That was the most innane comment you have ever made." That post of yours is the most innane post you have ever made. Trying to a novel written instead of agame with a good story amde. If I wanna buy a book, I'll buy a book. Good stories in a agme are essential; but we shouldn't forget that it's a game. Game over.