Volourn

"One might argue that since 4 of Nintendo's 5 titles are among the 6 best of all time (with only a Dreamcast game and a Playstation game breaking the dominance) the guy with the big Nintendo boner is right. But I won't go there." Um. No. Read what he says again... Then read it again again... Thanks.

Hassat, read my post above yours. This move (if rwhat is being said is true) may have actually *hurt* post NWN2 release support. BIO was supposedly interested in making NWN2 PM... not anymnore it seems like... Being able to say that they had Bioware on board for NWN2 PM (meaning supporting) would be a boon to advertise, I would think... Illogicalness on Atari's part, indeed... edit: "How is a BioWare made PM for NWN2 (is that even allowed; them making paid mods for a game they didn't make themselves?) profitable in any way for Obsidian or Atari? Unless BioWare pays loads of $ in order to get rights to make PM's for NWN2, but I doubt it..." You said it. Atari would likely make money off of it.. as well as Obsidian... And, it be a marketing boon for sure...

"Don't be so arrogant Volo, assuming I meant you." Heh. It's not in my nature *not* to be arrogant.

"Well, Volo's warped little mind seems to not be able to comprehend why it would be an issue. So I guess there's no sense discussing it anymore. Hahahaha" I'm sorry; but to think a 4 year old game that has long stopped being sold at full price (though it's nowhere near bargain bin yet) is a threat to its OWN sequel in 2006 is just beyond ludicrous. The idea that those who enjoyed NWN and still play it will NOT buy NWN2 just because NWN was still being supported is ludicrous. I'd wager that this move costs them a lot more potential customers than the other waya round. Thankfully, for them, it would take a natural disaster to swallow me up whole, for me NOT to buy NWN2... and, even then.. I'd find a way to cotninue playing NWN1, a nd NWN2. R00fles! P.S. "potentially out of fear instead of seeing it as a positive marketing force for the new title." This is the part that should be emphasized. P.PS. According to certain DLA fellows, BIo supposeldy had some plans to continue making NWN2 PM including a popular NWN1 PM.. but stopped such plans as after this action they don't want to be involved in Atari's messes, anymore... So, again, this hurts more than it helps NWN2. Hmm..

"But beating a dead horse is fun?" Huh? This directed at me for what? :ph34r:

Yup, and IIRC, those were xbox NOT nintendo titles. (or were they multiple console platform titles?) Hmmm... more holes in his theory... "

"Because the 4+ years just don't count." Have you ever heard the saying: What have you done for me lately? Atari is not in good shape apparantly. They're desperate. They're very likely to move on to theirNext Big Hit tm after NWN2 is released without asecond glance. Remember, it's not like Atari was pouring money into NWN1. BIO, and the PM *were*. Multiple Pm were in the works - likely BIO already apid those involved cosnidering they were under NDAs, and thw work was approved by Atari/WOTC/Hasbro throughout the process- yet, NOW they cancel it? Face it, in Ataris warped minds, NWN1 a 4 year old game is a threat to NWN2 a new game's success all because they were going to add rideable horses? Give me a break. It shows Atari has little faith in NWN2 or Obsidian. Too bad as my faith in NWN2's success is much higher than the one who is paying for it. Hahahaha!

"But at the same time, they were fans of D&D." I know very little about Irrational; but are they somehow anti D&D or RPGs or soemthing? You do realize that dave Gaider is not a fan of the Realms right yet he somehow manages to write for FR games that most people seem to like? *shrugs* I think writing soemone off because they don't have experience in x is just plain dumb. everyone does everything they do for the first time at least once, right? P.S. Of course, the chances of Irrational (or any other company) doing BG3 is next to nil.... afterall, for Atari, such an announcement would probably hurt NWN2 sales... LOLOLOLOLLIPOP

"If anything, continued support of NWN1 could only be seen as good publicity for NWN2 'cause it would feed the belief that NWN2 would see such support. The cancellation only makes people doubt that NWN2 will enjoy the same type of support." Game over. edit: Comments from Mr. Zoeller of Bio on the NWN boards (same thread as earlier)... "There were other modules in production of high quality and with a lot of work put into them by other parties as well, so this is really a sad outcome all in all. I'll comment on the DLA stuff since that's the module I'm most familiar with." That's pretty close to a confirmation that the jest of the issue is true... link: http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.ht...&forum=42&sp=60

Atari ok'ed 3 patches (though the last one was a quicky for one specific problem)for TOEE. That should be enough for a SP PC game. Afterall, BIO's KOTOR only had 3 patches I believe. I think nowadays, one patch is pretty much a given (sadly). Anymore it's good.

"When is the last time the best game of a generation, hand-held or otherwise, was not released on a Nintendo system? (popular opinion)" o rly? You sure? I call bogus. So, which game is considered 'the best by most' in the last two generations? Last I checked, PS1 had FF7 which was, byt and large, considred the 'best game of it sgenration' by a heck of a lot of people. And, in the PS2 era, GTA series was held up as some sort of Messiah as well. Seems to me your theory is false.

"Better get some profit than risk a full game that can make loss..." When a company is on the edge of cvollapse (supposedly like Atari is) making a small profit is likely not enough. They need blockbusters that fill their penny bank up. I seriously doubt Squaresoft would have survived if FF1 had made just a small profit as opposed to being the smash hit it was.

"Everybody who can call him (or her)self a "gamer" does..." YAY! I'm not a gamer! WOO HOO! I must have been fooling myself for over twenty years now! WOWSERS! "If NWN2 generates enough cash I cannot see why they try to gain additional funds in the form of an expansion or downloable content for $. All to save the company. Why risk money in a game not sure it is going to make profit if you can guarantee profit with bringing an X-Pack for an allready well-sold and profitable-proven game?" It's simple. Expansions simply don't seel as much as full fledge games,a nd they simply don't make as much money as full fledge games. there are, of course as always, exceptions to this but it's a rule nontheless. Example: BG1 has sold 2 million + copies... TOTSC has sold 600k+ copies... that's about 30%... And, TOTSC is considered a SUCCCESSFUL expansion. Companies don't get rich off expansions supposedly. They make a profit at best (again, there are liekly some exceptions that someone will likely point out).

"Irrational are definitvely pros's, but not in that specific field. You underestimate the importance of expertise." Again, neither was BIO when they worked on BG. You underestimate talent. If irrational is as good as their fans claim (I don't really play their games); I'm sure they'd do a good job. Afterall, before I played BG, I didn't know BIo at all. And, I'm sure that's true for most RPG fans.

"If Atari 'dies', isn't the DnD CRPG license just going to be acquired by some other company?" Interplay had a limited license. Atari has a stranghold on all D&D vieo game products for a long while yet. It's why BIO had no choice but to go with Atari. Interplay signed away their licence. Atari had the full license even before Interplay went Kaployee which is why it was even posisble for the transistion to even go. "Interplay dying didn't stop NWN from flourishing." If Atari 'dies' it will take a while. And, someone would have to buy it off them with Hasbro's oking. If Atari flat out dies then it would be up to WOTC/Hasbro. And, a mess like that could take awhile to sort out.

"I was talking about the BioWare Forum Moderators. Wasn't that clear?" No. But, it is now. And, you are still wrong. :D "They signed the contract, Volourn. They are just responsible for the game as the publisher." True to a point. Heck, I'm the first to always point that out. LOL But, if Atari says no expansions it means no expansions. "If NWN2 appears to be their savior they might aswell throw a X-Pack to us to make even more out of it and give them a few months/years of survival..." Expansions make money (or else why make 'em, lol); but they aren't going to save a company. And, as Hades says, one game doesn't save a company either. Even if NWN2 sells millions of copies (NWN2 will at least sell 1 mil copies, I'd be shocked otherwise); it alone won't be enough to likely save Atari. And, if Atari falls, it likely be a slow painful death where they ll be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive which means focusing on products that cna do that - NWN2 patches and epxansions won't do that. Remember, this is a company who for some odd reasons fears that a 2006 original game would threaten the chance at success for its 2006 sequel. "As I said before that happened before." Atari isn't Squaresoft which was a small company so its bill likely werne't as high as Atari. if a big company like Atari is in direness it needs a LOT of successes; not just one. R00fles!

"Unlikely, not their style/expertise." You got no proof for this. Before BIO got into games, they were medical software developers and before that they were doctors. Their first game was an action game. Then they did BG which 'wasn't their style'. We see now how much that line was a joke. Of course, I'd be SHOCKED that irrational is doing BG3 considering the mess that Atari is in.

"Honestly, I only care about the OC and official expansion packs, not some user made free content with rideable horsies, a few crappy tilesets and other nonsense." They were hired professionals that had to go through professional QA. Also, if Atari is in as deep trouble as they are, don't hold your breath for NWN2 expansions or foficial patches (outside of one or two basic ones). This bodes very poorly for NWN2 through no fault of Obsidian's here.

"We all know how rigged these guys are in making sure Pro-BioWare stuff remains. Yay if they can get people await from that awfull Obsidian, with it's policy to allow discussion instead of immediate locking all what is offensive to the company; and thus allow an actual community that doesn't suck (and (asskiss)..." Nonsense. BIO and Obsidian are on good terms last I checked. And, there's enough negativtity towards both Bioware and Obsidian on those boards are left untouched. "Our content is so awesome that Obs will die because of us." Well.. that's just hype. It doens't matter how good or bad their work is in this case... It should eb noted - again - Atari isn't stopping funding for NWN1 - they don't fund NWN and haven't done so for at least a year (accoridng to BIO).. they're just intervering with BIO supporting it inculding cancellation of 3 PM due out during the summer... Atari: Oh noes! NWN will stop NWN2 from selling 'cause it's gonna get free ridable horses! Stop it!!! R00fles!

Agreed. BIO also clarified in that thread that the 'NWN Live Team' can't be killed exactly; becuas eit hasn't been ana ccurate way tod escribed it for some time. It's actually the 'Bioware Live Team'. However,t he fact that BIO has avoided addressing the issue and actually moved 9instead of erasing) the thread when it was found on the NWN2 baords gives some credence to the overall story... *the plot thickens* THE HEADLINES: 2006 Sequel Fears 2002 Original LOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP Silly Atari.

From the BIO boards: Accoridng to Eldidrin, the one who worked on ID: "In addition to the 3 PMs for this summer, Bioware had plans for doing PMs for NWN2. One of them a sequel to a well loved PM from NWN1. As of last week those plans were killed to, by Bioware, they no longer have an interest in persueing the legalities. This is probably what disturbs me the most about the entire situation. Bioware got kicked in the teeth hard enough to not want to be involved in NWN2." Damn it, Atari! It should be noted, btw, that Atari isn't stopping financial support for NWN. They stopped that a llong time ago. They simply stopped BIO from releasing new content (1 more patch though). That's where the problem is. It seems Atari is a fraid that NWN2 can't compete with a 4 year old game. LOLOLOLOLOLOLLLIPOP

"As for Witch's Wake 2, that died a looooooooooooooooooooooong time ago. I know people have been itching for it, but unless you heard anything from Rob Bartel (and only Rob Bartel), it was a pipe dream. Considering he didn't mention it at all when I chatted with him about the original Witch's Wake, he's either an absolute dynamo at keeping a secret, or he wasn't working on it." Supposedly, Atari killed that too. After a few Pm, I bleieve Atari proclaim only FR mods were allowed. "You'll all get your horses anyway, just not with a Bioware stamp on it." Simply not the same thing. "If I were Atari I'd probably do the same thing." Why? You have no faith in NWN2? I have a hard time belieivng that NWN's failure or success relies on the fact that NWN1 would still has support or not. Afterall, don't other sequels have their original games stoill be playing? Having NWN still being hyped as far as I'm concerned can *onlY* help NWN2. Why? Simple. Someone - for some odd reason who hasn't played NWN1 yet - picks up NWN up in stores, likes it, hears that NWN2 is being made, and since NWN is still very fresh in his mind, he'll eaisly scoop up the sequel. LOL Game over. P.S. I used to defend Atari; but if this is true; not anymore.

Until Atari dies, they have full power over the game (along with WOTC and Hasbro). After they die, it'll be all WOTC and co. Anyways, why is this topic uP? It's dead. People like Grom got their answer. Let's move on. "

Sorry about the image overload. <>

Ahem. I like porn as much as the next fellow (if not more ); but back on topic: I tend to like Atari. I think they've done a great job supprting BIO's support of NWN. If this is true, it sucks big time, and makes me like them (if I even still do) a lot less. R00fles! :D