Volourn

"what it costs bio/ea/whomever to create dlc is clear not proportional to the costs... " No. Like most things it comes down to supply and demand. What a silly goose. " intense entitlement issues. " This. This is the number one evil amongst gamers, and other type of customers. Extremely sickening and evil. No morals whatsoever amongst this group of 'people' hence why I laugh when them hypocritically bash companies' 'lack of morals'. R00fles!

"He said it hasn't aged well. It hasn't. It looks horrible. The models are made of cubes. The clothes look like circus clown outfits. The tilesets are cookie cutter." I read what he wrote and he's wrong. Plain, and simply wrong. "The infinity engine games have aged better," No. NWN graphgics > IE graphgics. This is fact. " but being from a completely different era of gaming that's not surprising because they were near the zenith of the graphical paradigm they were created in." IE was created in the late 90s which is exactly when NWN was started to be worked on. BG2/TOB was released in 2000 (2001?), and NWN was released in 2003 with HOTU out by the end of 2004. " NWN wasn't, it was at the start. This isn't Bio hate, it's just a fact." Bull. NWN was better graphics than its fellow RPG counterparts. That is fact. Nobody claimed it was 'BIO hate', doofus, since were are debating two BIO engines/games. You do remember that BIO made both NWN and BG, right? RIGHT? Right? Right? This is NWN hate vs BG love. NWN has better graphics. Period. End of discussion. Game over. NWN wins. BG loses. Deal with it, BG fanboys.

No way do BG or IWD look better than NWN. I consider this the 'think the one you love is the most beautiful in the world even if she (he?) is ugly' disease. NWN is a solid loooking game that gets to look better come HOTU.

"from where I'm standing piracy and second-hand marked are virtually the same thing. by selling your copy of the game you take a potential customer, that would otherwise be paying the publisher" Not the same thing. It don't matter if the publishers disapprove or the stupid 'contract' suggests (since said 'contract' for most game purchases likely wouldn't stand up in a court of law if pushed). To compare the second hand purchase of products to theivery is delusional.

"More idiotic crap vomitted from your fingers volo." Crying again? Go cry to yer mommy little one.

wORST EVER? Kiddin' right? Have you played games like ME1, KOTOR series, and other crap stuff. The only negative about NWN inventory system is there were way too many pages. There should have been only 1 page. And, the amount of lag was 0. None. Zilch. Nadda.

"Why would someone buy legitimately a second hand game when he will miss some content and in the other hand, geting a pirated version of the game for free would give him all of the content ?" Because they aren't thieves. Why spend thousands buying a new car when you get it for free by stealing it. L0L0L0L0L0LLLIP0P Complaining about the 'evils' of DLC and refusing to buy any is one, but giving approval for theivery is a whole nother box of wax. LMAO 'Customers' supporting theivery is hilarity!

"alan, what we are saying is that the Bioware / EA DLC model appears to a lot of gamers to be sharp practice and price-gouging. It certainly looks that way from where I'm sitting, although I bought two DA:O DLC pieces and thought they were OK. I agree that paying to unlock content that's already there is smelly, buying DLC as a longevity thing after release is different." You hate the concept of DLC yet bought some. That's silly. That's as bad as people hatinga game and buying it or its sequel at full price anyways or heck even stealing it and playing it despite the fact they claim they'll hate every minute of it. DLC is optional. Don't want it don't buy it. Heck, games are optional. Don't like it, don't buy it. Why can't people get these simple cocnepts. You aren't 'owed' anything here except the product offered. If EA says," Hey I have a game called DA3. I will sell it to you for $50." and you say "Ok, here's my $60.". Then they hand you the game. That's ALL that is owed. Everyone knows games - like movies and other types of entertainment - 'enjoyment factor' are pure opinion so that is irrelevant. Reminds me of the sports fans who whine they shiould get thjeir money back if the game they go too their fave team sucks. Very illogical. But that's customers for you. No persecptive ever at all. Worse than a 2 year kid.

Keep up the good stuff.

" Is it because Bioware is guilty of at least fifty percent of those, not least 'making an announcement about an announcement?'" You are mistaken me for someone who actually cares about companies. if BIO were to go out of business today, I'd shrug my shoulders, chuckle, and I'd look for other games to buy. I wouldn't whine about it for years like some did with BIS or Troika. I'm not emotionally attached to video game companies. Or customers. Or internet approval. I support BIO b/c they make games I enjoy even if they aren't perfect. When BIO stops making games I enjoy I will stop buying their games. It's why I didn't buy Sonic RPG. R00fles!

NEWSFLASH: DA WAS NOT A CULT HIT.

My #1: Pathetic, arrogant, piece of crap, evil, scummy, whinyetc. etc. 'fans' 'customers'. Worst part of the game industry by far. (i include myself in this group too). There are no exception to the fans are douches rule either. Sorry, but the truth hurts, and that article proves it.

Sweden is irrelevant to the disucssion since you guys make up what? .00001% of NA game publishers' sales anyways. L0L

The above post is silly since its about personal tatse. By that account, Betehsda owes ME money for their ES crap, and Obsidian should give me their next three games for free after the joke known as AP. And, BIO should have sold me KOTOR on a discount, and I would have gladly paid $200 for NWN instead of the $100 I did. *shrug* Logically, games aren't priced based on what someone eprsonally thinks of it after the fact. This works for movies too. AS I don't care for certain popular movies so I should pay less for them. L0L

"you can't measure worth with spent time. personally, I find a good movie a lot more enjoyable than a great game." I don't. And, yeah, you can use time as a measure fo worth since time = money. Of course, time shouldn't be the main way to put a value on soemthing (afterall, plenty of shorter games are better than longer ones).

"a video game on sale costs 3 times as much. everything is relative. " Movies last about 2 hours. Games last way more than that. "Everyone says that game prices have not increased, but it is just not true. It's a dumb myth, probably started by greedy publishers. Prices have increased by a factor of five during my gaming history." Nope. prices, for the most part, have gone down for games. $60-$80 for brand new releases. Sorry, dude, you errored here. "And yet I read in newspapers people get arrested for pyramid-schemes even if people willingly entered them. If investors get millions from their clients without giving anything back they go on trial. If Activision does so with a "map pack" it's all fine though apparently. Boggles the mind." Poor comparison as people really get nothing out of them while the customer gets something out of DLCs. You fail at understanding the law. Just because YOu think you don't get enough out of the DLC doesn't mean anything. btw, Most DLCs are $5-$7 and last 1-3 hours... OMG.. about the same price as a movie. Oh, btw, Movie makers also have no peroblem cutting things from the movie and then using those cut bits to hype DVD sales to make more money with the DvDs costing as much asn $30. LMAO

"Still the point stands they willingly cut out a part of their game to sell it." No. And, btw, games have things cut from them ALL THE TIME. Still the point stands that customers willingly choose to buy DLC. Companies are doing nothing wrong. They tell you what they are selling, and you decide if it's worth your money. Period. They owe you nothing else.

"I'm not a good DM, i'm a GREAT one." Doubtful. A great DM crafts the campaign for the characters/players not for their own selfworth/ "The players all know the rules though, the world is dangerous, you must be prepared for danger ahead of time." Duh. That's true everything. I have no problem having PCs die whether its due to their own stupidity, bad luck, or just simply getting beat. "Part of being prepared is being ready for any situation because some dungeons have traps in them, some don't. Some dungeons have monsters in them that are resistant to magic, some don't. some dungeons have powerful NPC's or creatures that must be reasoned with, not fought." Being prepared is one thing, but you miss the point. You cna still have trapped ruins without the party having an actual rogue as long as there are multiople ways to get past them. Heck, what would you do if the PCs hear there are traps that will kill them a certain dungeon and simply don't bother go them? Do you find a way to force them to go? That's also poor DMing. A DM shouldn't force players to go anywhere. the story should never be more important than the party since the characters should be the story. "the players know these situations can arise at any moment and thus always make a well rounded party capable of handling any situation. (though our current game they have decided to have two rogues and no cleric, so they are being careful about stocking up on potions etc ahead of time, but they think the risks are worth it to have one rogue dedicated to traditional dungeoneering, and another to diplomacy)" Players should be aware that anything can happen. That's the nature of the game. However, NOTHINg should be absolutely required 'cause that means the DM failed. "now, don't get me wrong, if I was playing with inexperienced players, or morons, I'd be more forgiving, but I don't make games with morons in mind." It has nothing to do with being forgiving. I am one of the least forgiving DMs of all time. Trust me on that. It's about understanding your role as DM. ON TOPIC: Keep up the good work, and ignore the constant anti NWN bashers who will spam this thread just to remind us all 8 years after the fact that 'NWN is the worst game of all time'. I'm all for your posting important/amusing dialogue. Heck, if you can, even record some of the more interesting fights.

"This DLC nonsense needs to stop, though. When I buy a game, I expect it to be a complete game, not a game with several elements removed and sold separately. " DA in the original packing was a complete. All the DLCs were 100% optional and were not just 'removed'. Think of them as optional addons for cars or optional add ons when you get cable. People whining about DLC are hilarious b/c they don't seem to get the fact that they are 100% opotional. Nobody forces you to purchase thenm, and the game is fine without them.

CRPGs are not PnP. "traps, picking locks, scouting ahead, without someone to handle these tasks the party will die." Horrible DM. The best DM cator their campaigns for the pklayers not the other waya round. This, btw, can mean many things including giving them the oppurtunity to hire a 'scout' npc; but a DM should never be the one demanding players need x class/race/gender unless its some sort of special campaign. P.S. This would eman I would never require players to have fighters , mages, or clercis as PCS either. i woukld craft the campaign around them, and if a quest came up where it wa slogical a cleric/mage was needed I'd give them options around the issue 9that they may or may not figure out). That's what a GOOD dm would do. Are you a good DM or a bad DM?

Old. It's not real D&D. It's gonna suck the big one. I expect it to be worse than POR2.

"He actually brings good and well thought-out critizism to the table" No, no he doesn't. Nothing wrong with that either since it's true of 100% of us internet dweebs.

"also, a fighter and a wizard? who is going to heal them when they get hurt? who will pick locks and find traps? is this a D&D game with no traps? inquiring minds want to know!" I have never played a D&D game where a rogue was required. Heck, i have never played a RPG where a rogue was required. And, like all RPGs, NWN OC has tons of healing potions around to be used.

"The ones that came with the OC weren't." Wrong. "This has been a plothole ever since BG2. I'd think the Academy would make it standard procedure to cast a Detect Alignment/Detect Illusion spell on any new applicant to prevent Luskan spies, Zentharim, or any other evil faction, from infiltrating." There are counter spells to counter the detect spells.

In the famous words of our beloved Hades: "NWN OC is the worst RPG ever and I know this by having played it 4 times!" Sorry, if me going to Hell means gettuing to play NWN OC, that ain't half bad. Certainly, the Devil has much mor devious ways to punish one as evil as me. R00fles!