Aurora

Sure, I have a thread for cut non-ending scenes. Oh, note that also there are a fair amount of scenes that have wacky triggers, and they may still actually be in-game but only pop up for a few people or if the variables are messed around with (Atton/T3, Disciple/T3). Not sure what's going on there.

Okay, the forums are now up and ready, here! Only those who have contacted me about working on the ending mod will get access to the SECRET MOD ROOM. We'll try to keep everyone else updated about how much progress we're making, though.

Ah, well, finding them isn't that hard, as far as these things go. The thought of adding them all back in, and in a way that makes sense, is what's making my eyeballs bleed. But thanks.

There's some cut stuff dealing with the GenoHaradan, who were originally supposed to play a bigger role (hunting you down on Nar Shadda & elsewhere). Or, well, a significant role at all. I suspect this is related to the "everyone thinks you're dead" scenes - an explosion could make people think you were dead w/o them having to see the body. Dessicus: So... you've crawled your way here. I admit, I thought to be dueling you on some far-distant world. But you have honored me by not wasting my time hunting you down. Exile: Maybe some day, but not today. D: We shall see. I have studied your movements, seen you fight, and I have already killed you a dozen times over. OR: Exile: You think you can kill me? D: I do not think I can kill you - I have watched your movements, seen you fight, and I have already killed you a dozen times over. Prepare yourself - I have waited for this moment to test myself against the Jedi for some time. OR: E: Enough words - prepare to die. OR: E: I'd rather talk with you first - and find out who hired you to kill me. D: Do you think I would reveal it to you? If so, then you thought wrong. Prepare yourself - I have waited for this moment to test myself against the Jedi for some time. Fightfight, then: Do... you think you could best me? Try... your skills against this. {runs the script a_door305cage which doesn't exist afaik} More fight, then: {Defeated, weak, but defitant}You have defeated me... but you will not leave here alive. This complex is a trap... when my heartbeat fails, this place shall explode, removing all trace of the GenoHaradan... and you.

Ah, right, the Smelly Atton dialogues - it looks like the Disciple/Handmaiden Nar Shadda dialogue *is* supposed to trigger. I'm not sure what's going wrong there. Here are the four possibilites for the Mira/Atton convo after she says "Calm down - what is your problem?": most all have V/O. 1) Atton: I don't want to talk about it. Mira: All right. You know, Atton, sometimes it's no wonder you can't figure yourself out the way you lie to yourself all the time. I've hunted a lot of people in my line of work, but I never met someone who wants to get lost more than you do. I've got a pretty good idea why, but not the whole picture. I will, though. My advice? Come clean before I find out. {Warning, walking away from Atton}And stop watching her. She's got enough problems. 2) Atton:That guy - I don't trust him. Mira: I do. {Shrugs}I mean he's all right, I guess. He's like someone who watches too many holovids. Or teaches them. He'd get beaten to death on Nar Shaddaa almost as soon as he landed, though. Atton:{A little relieved}Yeah, you're right. He's boring. Mira:Yeah, and that puts him a few ranks up the ladder from you. Atton: What's that supposed to mean? I'm not boring. Mira: {Matter-of-fact}No, you're more like a shifty, lying idiot with a tendency to complain about every little thing and offer only small bits of helpful advice if pressured. Don't take it too hard, though. That still makes you better than most people I've met on Nar Shaddaa. Atton: {Sarcastic, mutters to Mira as she walks away, more like a mutter}Thanks. 3) Atton:That guy - I don't trust him. Mira: I do. {Shrugs}I mean he's all right, I guess. He's like someone who watches too many holovids. Or teaches them. He'd get beaten to death on Nar Shaddaa almost as soon as he landed, though. Atton: {A little relieved}Well, that's good to hear. Thought I had some competition there. Mira: Oh, well, it's not really a competition. I mean, you're kind of an idiot, Atton. And you don't shower enough. And you scratch your... equipment... when you think no one's looking. 4) Atton: What's up with that guy? I don't trust him. Mira: {Shrugs}I don't know, but she seems to trust him, so it's all right with me. Given this, and with comments in the dialogues like {Atton turns, and starts shouting and complaining, like he always does.} I'd say that at least one of the writers isn't too fond of Atton. Poor little Atton. Oh, and only the first conversation will *ever* happen, as far as I can tell. I'd guess that the shower-line was meant to be extra third-playthrough-unlocked content, but there's nothing to trigger it. There's also the delightful alternate Atton/Kreia conversation, which is actually still in-game. In order to trigger it, you need to have a high enough influence with Atton that you can get the story of his past, and then before boarding the Ebon Hawk again when he speaks to Kreia, piss him off enough to get no or low influence. For reference, the regular conversation: Kreia: Why are you here? Atton: Because I told her, told her everything. Kreia: {Seemingly calm, but really about to kick Atton's ass}Ah. And now you are free? Atton: Yeah - so no more threats, no more of your "requests." You and me - we're done. Kreia: Did you ever think I truly held you? You are more of a fool than I thought. What truly held you was you - and let me show you why. I once held the galaxy by the throat... ...as you once held her by the throat, and let her die slowly. And your emotion at that point is what you fear. I can unlock that part of you anytime I wish. It is a simple thing, the human mind, once it feels something strongly, it becomes etched in the memory, the subconscious. Shall I show you? That part of you that hungered to kill Jedi, that took pleasure from it? Or perhaps you will continue to listen to my counsel and I shall ignore your pathetic attempts at freedom. Now leave me, murderer. I have nothing further to say to one such as you. Without high influence: A: Because I told her, told her everything. Just like you asked. K: And did she believe you? A: {Feels a little dirty}Yeah. Yeah, I think she did. K: You have done well. Now we shall see what happens. And then, already posted, for later: K: It is time. A: {Resigned}All right. Where are we going? K: To a place you know well. There, much will be revealed. {Sensing hesitation in Atton as they are about to leave}Any regrets, "Atton?" A: {Mentally saying final goodbye to player, breaking up, and becoming colder}No, I thought I would. I just feel... cold, nothing. K: Keep that feeling close. You will need it where we travel. ALTERNATE for Kreia: Did you know I once held the galaxy by the throat - no, you did not. I wielded power like you cannot imagine. Everything I saw was awash with possibilities, spreading outwards, touching everything else. I saw all of that, all that the Force is... and only when it was ripped from me did I truly see it. And I know what lies buried within you. That you hide with your desperate thoughts, your guilt, your lusts. ALTERNATE for low influence (I didn't get this when I tested): A: Because I told him, told him everything. K: I did not realize there were more lies left in you. And to lie easily to such an ally... you are indeed worthy of contempt. A: {Slight anger}Shove your lectures - and your threats, and your "requests." You and me - we're done. K: Did you ever think I truly held you? You are more of a fool than I thought.

Here're a bunch of mixes, including the dialogue from the cut ending. sniffle.

You can also get the mod from here if you don't want to download it with a buncha other mods.

Yeah, I also said that someone who wasn't going to be a total jerk (or obviously something worse than that, as I got all censored) to me. Although HK is really quite polite... bah! The character-angsty-backgrounds felt very similar to those in PST: but it made more sense there, at least. I wasn't particularly thrilled with it popping up here, though not because it's Star Wars. I do agree that the scrapped endings are *more* emotionally satisfying than the current ending and I'd prefer them. Still unecessarily negative, unless the self-sacrifice bits are still in there somewhere. If they'd been in, I would have felt like it was far more of a complete game than it is now. Totally agree: granted, those games are all in my top ten (along with BG2, where even if you're good you're somewhat indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents), but it's getting pretty tiresome. And this is coming from someone who isn't particularly tired of amnesia as a plot point. When I heard that the PC for NWN2 was going to have a set background, my first thought was "Great! I get to play a mass murderer again!" I hope this isn't true.

Oh, that's right, I'd forgotten that scene. Still, it seemed like Mandalore was pushed around too easily, perhaps? But then, I only played LS with him so far (haven't gotten him yet in my DS game). I'll actually be able to learn more about him when I play through as a DSer. Theoretically. I didn't think it fit the series at all. The first few seasons were very much about redemption and justice and fairness and what those really meant or could mean, as ideals and in reality. The end of season 5 was about Our Heroes realizing that not only were they a bunch of idiot puppets for TPTB just LIKE THEY'D BEEN SAYING ALL SEASON TO EACH OTHER, but that everything ever was hopeless.* The hint of "life is hard, but we do what we can to make it better" was brutally crushed, IMO, by the "life is hard, and we do what we can, and it's all hopeless and gee I hope that Hell isn't as bad as they say 'cause that's where we're going since we can never make up for the bad things we did, ever" theme. Oh, plus the whole Circle of the Black Thorn Club tossed in at the last minute, and all the dangly unresolved plotlines. Wes died pointlessly and stupidly, in a manner that was very unfair to the character even if he had turned kinda crazy. Fred's soul was utterly destroyed, just to show that Bad Things Happen To Good People Haha. Spike and Angel are damned to hell forever, because *nothing they do will ever be good enough.* Gunn's going to die, who knows what'll happen to him. Lindsay wanted to redeem himself in some manner but had to be killed by Lorne because Angel decided he might've been wishy-washy and they couldn't take the risk, the risk that ultimately wouldn't have mattered anyway. Lorne actually had the fairest ending: he ran away because he didn't ultimately care too much about good versus evil. Illyria might be killed, or might survive by punching the hell out of everything. Harmony ran off, because she was never meant to be redeemed and a joke of a character anyway. Cordelia died in her sleep, ultimately the result of a demon pregnancy (which is the WORST plot device ever, although I adored the Jasmine arc), because Joss was pissed at the actress: at least she got to say goodbye in a way, I suppose. I didn't hate it as much as it probably sounds from this post, but I think the show deserved a lot, lot better. Redemption is still the largest overall theme I can find - you were given a chance to redeem yourself in a way, and you either accepted that and went "yay redemption" or grumbled "redemption is hard" and "proved" to the world that some people can't be redeemed. I was vaguely fond of the DS ending, myself, particularly with Carth rushing in to try and save me. Ouch. *Handled SO MUCH better in the fantastic elevator scene in season 2's "Reprise."

I'll add to the lovefest and say that KOTOR2 has the best-written dialogue of any RPG I've played, and better dialogue than most adventure games I've played.

Yup, saw the page, and thanks for putting all that together. (As a sidenote, you should also give credit to thedigitalsin, who's probably not around any longer but started this thread that lead me and others to dig up dialog.tlk.) If you want to offer yourself up as e-mailed scene taker and sorter, that's fine. I just think this would be a better place for scenes to be posted because there are more people reading to sort through the scenes and indicate if they did or didn't get them.

1) The "character knows their past, but player doesn't" thing is okay in theory, but didn't work out so well in the real game. A few parts, like meeting Bao-Dur, were okay - adding characters from the past who know the PC is neat, as it makes it feel like the PC have a history. But this particular character's history didn't work so well for other parts, for meeting people who were very close to you and having to say "yeah, sorry about the mass murder" while they go on about your past. 2) Partly disagree. I think cliche was avoided for Atton's character because he never actually says "I want to make up for everything I did wrong and I feel awful about it," although of course it comes through in his other dialogue. He doesn't go around constantly muttering about redemption. He's brave enough to desire redemption when the opportunity expressly comes up, but too frightened to do anything about it otherwise. Maybe that's still vaguely cliche, but it's pretty hard to avoid having no cliches at all, ever. I think he was still a fascinating character. And if he'd been a Sith Lord, it would've been just as easy to say "oh, of course he is! He was totally open about his dark past and never said he regretted it so he technically never lied to you!" Mira definitely needed a stronger motivation to tag along. "Oh, you're my bounty" got silly, as she didn't seem like the kind of person to lie to herself so much. Hanharr's joining up just to watch you didn't feel strong enough, either. I didn't see a real reason why Mandalore needed to travel with you. 3) Totally agreed about the darkness. This is a huge problem for many beginning/intermediate writers: they think that piling on misery after misery makes their story better. Reviewing clumsily-written drug addiction/rape/abortion/breakup stories is... not one of the best ways to spend one's time. I think it was handled moderately well in some areas of the game: I understood that a big part of it was how the wars had touched everyone, had hurt them. But still, I wanted some kind of character like Mission: someone who wasn't going to be a total **** to me at some point, someone who wasn't completely scarred and (at least!) half-broken inside because of their past. Even *T3,* the sweet innocent little droid, is depressed because he was abandoned and is hiding things from the player. As for the endings themselves: the scrapped endings fill me with mixed feelings. They're well-written technically, but there really doesn't seem to be much point to killing everyone off (except Atton, to a certain extent) aside from "yup. Everyone's dead. DRAMA." And either way, ending as-is or ending cut-out, the Exile has no ultimate choice about their fate: sorry, you're going to do this and there's nothing you can do about it. The theme of KOTOR1 was redemption. The theme of KOTOR2 leans more towards sacrifice - but, as it is (cut and included material both), it feels like pointless, empty sacrifice. It's the difference between, say, the end of Buffy and the end of Angel. People died on the Buffy season finale, some totally unecessarily, but the remaining characters still saved the world and brought forth new hope, both for the characters and for the world itself. There was a lot of clumsy storytelling, true (not to mention some of the godawful dialogue) but it ultimately felt emotionally satisfying for me. The end of Angel? Well, they realized that redemption was a pointless waste of time and that they were all literally doomed to hell, a bunch of random exposition was tossed out to make some sketchy plotlines make sense, one character died in a totally idiotic pointless way, and the others were all pretty much ready to die just, uh, just for the heck of it. Pretty damn frustrating when you've watched this show for five entire years - or, say, paid $50 for a computer game.

That's what my first post is for.

Bumping: If anyone has found genuinely new scenes, scenes I've forgotten to add, or other super-helpful things, please list them.

A power, greater than the mightiest of empires... ...greater than the slash of a Jedi's lightsaber... ...greater than the power of the dark side... ...yes... yes, greater then the Force itself... ...MAGNETISM!

Please please please pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.

CURSES! MY SECRET IDENTITY, REVEALED! *runs off to France*

Female and male *players* can get Disciple. They have to play a female *character* in order to do so. 's ok, the game designers made that mixup all the time. Oh, Atton, darling, look into my eyes.

Right, well: I created the channel #K2Mod on irc.gamesurge.net for people who want to come and help out. Nothing really deep going on so far, but I want to have a meeting sometime, perhaps as early as next week. I'm well aware that Obsidian didn't drop all this stuff just because it could've cut into their three-hour lunch breaks. I know that it's a huge project. I've watched many huge projects lead by people with sparkling eyes and epic goals (we will make a better game than any studio can! we will add over 40 hours of new content! we will add 4 full romances with ten times the depth of any current romance!) crumble into dust as time passed for lack of organization, of clear aim, of ability. I can't guarantee that this won't happen here. The people who want to work on this, including myself, are not professional game designers, are working with scavenged and third-party tools and material, are not getting paid, and (presumably) do not have a ton of free time. But a lot of us are creepily devoted to this idea and ready to work hard. Start small, sure: but not with the idea that we're just going to aim for adding one or two scenes back in, because you have to add multiple scenes to make even one of the variant endings make sense. We'll see how it turns out.

Fairly slowly. There are some talented people who've volunteered and who are eager to help. Hopefully most of them will stick around. I have a fair amount of the ending organized/worked out, but there's still some stuff that's still puzzling me. I'm mostly waiting for updates to the KOTOR modding tools, particularly KOTORTool. It'll be easier to tell exactly how much we can get done once that's fully updated for TSL.

Oh, turning Disciple into a dark jedi is hilarious. "Well, I want to help people, and if embracing evil is what I'll have to do to help them, then, by golly, I'm going to give evil a great big hug!" Yeah, uh, dude, you're so evil you belong on the Venture Brothers.

Yeah, well, also keep in mind that the game isn't so hugely hard that it makes much of a difference. What's more important is that apparently Handmaiden has way more of a personality than he does. alas.

Brothels.

Voices of... reason?

Yes, I suppose a ninja could be an interesting romance option.