kalimeeri

Weelll... Handmaiden is okay, but I wish she hadn't brought up the whole how I remind her of her father thing. Never quite got past that. If she actually has the 'first-teenage-crush' stuff going on, then she's not seeing the Exile enough for a romantic interest. It makes him feel like he's taking advantage of her, and folks, that ain't Jedi.. Oh, and I'm not too fond of the haircut, either, even though I really couldn't see a fighter-type having anything else. I'm just glad she didn't go Juhani on us.

That wouldn't make any sense; perhaps it was only conjecture on HK's part, or a method to save face. If Revan did in fact memory-wipe him, why 'shoot' him wth a blaster? If he actually wanted to destroy HK, Revan could simply have disabled all systems and disassembled him, at that point. Also I get the impression the shooting part occurred more recently than Revan's departure. My error. I should have said the 'user interface' was programmed by Revan. The holo told you that, in a roundabout kind of way. The computer itself was ancient, as was the one in Rakatan village. But Revan didn't want anyone following or discovering the records he'd accessed, while still allowing himself to come back if he needed to. When he did, he was subtly changed. Agreed. She may have put herself into a trance, enough to fool the folks in the med lab enough to dump her in the morgue. But if she really wanted to prevent badness from happening to you, I'd think she'd have been out pitching a manipulation or two, if she was able. More her style.

Any time I want to see some serious booty-kicking, I take Bao-Dur as Jedi Guardian and Atton as Jedi Sentinel. Along with Exile, they are a mowing machine that's truly beautiful to watch. I really had to work to turn Mira faster this time. For that I had to make Nar Shaddaa my first planet after Telos. I was able to turn her before, but she was way too lame to use her powers against Hanhaar in the final battle. I found that a lot of the time influence points were soaked up by someone else, even if they were maxed out. I ended up having to cut everyone else out of my party at those critical spots, and then she would finally pipe up.

Not sure if this is a glitch, or if it was intended. Also, I don't think it's T3 at all projecting the images. I think it's a Goto-gram. The first time I saw a holo at the exit ramp, it was Goto. The second time it's Bastila ... err ... what IS that that she's 'almost' wearing?

Still JMO, but I believe T3 to be responsible. Revan memory-wiped HK just prior to leaving. But HK is very loyal to Revan and will seek the missing answers, and as such, he is a danger. T3 admits that he deleted some information from his own memory core, but at least in my games, he will not or cannot tell you why. I believe he did that to preserve Revan's secret--to prevent someone from doing what Atris tried to do, pry into his memory banks. He would be the most logical one to stop HK for the same reason. That is his primary directive, programmed by Revan, who was a computer genius (Remember the checks and balances he programmed into the holocomputer on Kashyykk) Bastila's request is just a subroutine, an if/then statement. HK47 cannot harm the HK50 unit, and vice versa. No one else was on board except you and Kreia, both of whom were incapacitated, perhaps in part because of the bond, the effort it took just to sustain life. HK47, while perfectly capable of destroying T3, completely discounts the little droid as a threat. He doesn't expect it, and therefore is vulnerable to both attacks. There are some very brief video flashes of T3 acting very nervous when the questioning of HK gets around to what happened to him. (Dwoooo). Others may guess what happened, but HE knows. He was perfectly capable of repairing the ship enough to limp to Peragus. And if he wasn't responsible (if the HK50 was), he would had no problem answering the questions. An interesting question, though, is why did Bastila's subroutine trigger? Or did it? Revan probably left the Hawk (including the droids) at Malachor V. 'He didn't need it any more.' He also consulted Kreia again before leaving, and Kreia obviously had made Malachor her home after the wars. She was an historian; she had the knowledge from both Sith and Jedi. Was she training Sion and Nihilous in hopes that they would be able to help Revan, and it backfired? Her students tended to do that. Why not choose Exile from the start? It is strongly inferred that he was another of her Padawans. Revan knew Exile from the academy, knew his strengths and weaknesses, but he worried that the bonding would be his downfall. Perhaps there is a more personal connection that is not revealed (the sibling theory?) Maybe she went against Revan's wishes in desperation. Any ideas? And how does Kreia's suggestion that Revan may have been born in the Unknown Regions fit in?

Perhaps she simply wants people to be able use the Force as a tool -- instead of the other way around. In order to do that, one must be able to set it aside. Good discussion, btw.

I feel I should qualify my vote. The Kotor games-story are on a par with the first trilogy of movies, but far better than the latest. Revan's (and Exile's) story is every bit as good as Luke Skywalker's. It's just not finished yet. At their best, games are creative expression on a par with a good movie, or a good book. I would no more part with the older games I cherish than I would with some of the DVD's and novels that have earned a permanent place in my library. But as gaming has evolved, there have been fewer and fewer of the ones that really shine, and that's sad. The Kotors (both of them) are exceptional due to character development and compelling storyline. Thinking back to how many fictional characters actually remained part of me in any of the above categories, I suspect the numbers are small. But PC games had a decent share. Planescape: Torment and Gabriel Knight, to name a couple. Plain and simple, the later movies have nothing to commend them. The characters fall flat, and taking the last three as a separate entity (the only way to stay sane) I already know how that story ends. It's a tragedy. And a hard sell, unless it was really done well. Too late for the third movie to salvage it; even if the movie is excellent, it cannot stand on its own. We've already moved past the Skywalker saga. LA would have better served the franchise by devoting more effort into being sure K2 was all it could be.

I completely agree.

Mission babbled, and she tended to get on my nerves. I think she was supposed to (poor Revan). But she was cute in a naive sort of way. Disciple is ... er ... unredeemable. 'Are you and disciple--' "HELL, no."

The new drivers still have the same problems with K1 that all drivers since 4.12 have had (lag in open areas). Don't have K2 yet, but that would suggest that not much has changed in the new driver with regard to the KoTOR engine <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I tried rolling back to the 4.11 drivers, and/or putting just the openGL dll in the game file and got crashes every five minutes. No warning, no save game. Upgraded to the new drivers and on Dantooine, the characters try to run, then just spin in place. Ugh. About all I could do to unstick them was change and save the graphics options (didn't seem to matter which one) and then continue until the next time. The ONLY thing that worked for me with Radeon 9600XT was adding this line to the Kotor2.ini file in the Graphics Options: Disable Vertex Buffer Objects=1 I got onto Dantooine and it's beautiful. Grass, shadows, et al. Sigh of relief. Both video cards are awesome. My daughter has a GForce and is as loyal to it as I am to my Rad. She has problems with fog on Malachor, whereas I had none, so there are trade-offs for both. But neither of us is going to buy a different card for the sake of one game.

Playing a male Exile, I don't trust him. Was vaguely interested in what his game was, but never saw or heard anything of him after Dantooine. Female Exile... Sit. Stay. Roll over and play dead. Pleeeezz.

In K1, Vrook was there in the training chamber, but he didn't contribute much to Revan's training. He was his hypercritical self, though not with the bitter viciousness he displayed in K2. Vandar and Zhar did most of it, and then there was the library/historian dude (don't remember his name but Kreia didn't mention it). I read somewhere that with LA's reorganization they laid off much of their in-house staff ... and I thought that K3 was farmed out to a company called 'The Collective'. However, all I see on their site is a reference to an 'Episode III' game, which is quite a different animal (staying away from what species). Maybe I misunderstood, being desperate for another KOTOR. However, K3 was under development at the time of the reorganization. No idea where it stands now.

Okay, people. SOMEBODY voted for him. I'd suggest sending Mira after whoever did it ... on second thought, Hanhaar.

I rember that Kreia, when she was speaking about her past as jedi, said something like: "You cannot find all the answer you seek into the jedi code. You've to search for them elsewhere". So the feeling was mutual. She betrayed the order as much as the order left her because it couldn't provide an adegaute answer. Something similar to what happened to Jolee and, even if the outcome was different, in the end both characters feel like they were betrayed by the Jedi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Something to consider... It doesn't seem that what the Jedi order did to her would be sufficient to be regarded a betrayal. After all, she knew and lived by the Jedi Code, and she knew the consequences. So Kae obviously hid the child, probably had little contact with her after she was born. The Jedi were taken young, so their parents couldn't teach them--what about the Echani? They don't really question the absence of parents. It might be the perfect place for her--and fitting, because they are not Force users. The child might never discover any Force potential (Kreia's hatred for the Force?) But it only worked for 10 years. I think that the betrayal is probably related to how the Jedi found out about the child. Her anger and her feelings of betrayal are personal. Perhaps General Y was a little drunk one night and blabbed, or maybe he got angry with her for some reason... but he's dead, so we can't ask him. And Kreia ain't tellin'.

He says something about you acting impulsively, charging into situations without thinking first. But if you talk to HK47, that's exactly what you need to do, to fight Jedi or Sith, since some of them can see into the future and anticipate your actions. And sitting back and thinking too much is exactly what got the Republic into such a bad position against the Mandalorians, and divided the Jedi. What he sees as a bad thing is actually a positive one, in the current conflict. But I suppose he resents it because he can't predict what you might do ... and he already fears you because you're different. Perhaps you always were. I think it's rich that he (and the other two) admit that they recognize the problem in the Force, and they decide it's YOU. Just you. You caused it, you're spreading it. Do they think it will magically go away if they strip away the Force powers? Hello? Sith? Or are they simply not capable of 'seeing' the others? Short-sighted fools, clinging to a narrow belief, deluding themselves that they still have power. But the problem is, they do still have influence in the Republic, and for that reason both Kreia and Revan believed they had to go. The time for stubbornly adhering to such a narrow doctrine (sometimes only when it served them) was over, and they were doing more harm than good.

Uhm, that would be "The Mary Tyler Moore" Show. Man am I showing my age here. :ph34r: Tsel " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You might have been able to avoid that. He's done a lot of good stuff since. But that is the only one I can immediately call to mind, too.

To hear sound files get Miles: here To view movie files get Radtools: here To view content so far, go to tubertarian: here (credit to tu2thepoo) The original topic can still be found here Here is the recieved email from Obsidian. Here are the contact addresses: bizdev@obsidianent.com (official Obsidian Contact address - good, fast response) pr@lucasarts.com (official LucasArts Public Relations address) mbihr@lucasarts.com (Mary Bihr -- she's the Vice President, Global Publishing, and cares greatly about customer opinion) rscott@lucasarts.com (Ronda Scott -- Community Relations Specialist, it's her job to collect & report customer feedback) Thanks to markussun for finding the latter three addresses. Just don't be rude to them or bother them too much. Thanks to Aurora for the original thread. Keep discussing, playing and working hard. May the force be with you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for posting this, as Obsidian's response, while sad, at least helps in understanding. Unfortunately, while I played NWN and a mod or two, I never formed the same attachment to it as I have to the Kotor storyline. It didn't have the same depth; and I simply don't feel the compulsion to rush right out and buy NWN2. But after this post from Obsidian, I would pre-order K3 in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, from what I have read, they have not been contracted for it.

I understand that she understands , perhaps better than Exile does. I just felt that if she was so easily swayed light-side that as soon as she got close to Nihilous again, I'd at least see some vacillation. Perhaps wishful thinking ... I like character conflict, what can I say... Ref her final dialogue, did I miss something? Not entirely sure what convo you're talking about.

That's what confused me as well. Both of the other two Jedi Masters, when they were talking one-on-one, seemed reasonable, even friendly. Yet in the 'Council' atmosphere, they turn on you as soon as Vrook gives his opinion. I almost thought I did something wrong, but replaying that part only makes me kill them, and Kreia didn't like that, either. Man, was she MAD. Vrook is the real baddie here--he has always had a sense of your power, if not an understanding, and for that he fears and hates you. He and Atris were a good pair; they both used their power to try to destroy you for their own purposes. Perhaps the fact that the others are so easily swayed condemns them as well. It makes me think that Vrook was the driving force behind the barbaric way Revan was treated by the Jedi.

Atton tends to get mixed up with Carth in my mind a bit, probably because they both piloted Ebon Hawk, and because he just seemed that type of character. But Atton definitely has a shiftier aspect, because once Carth finally trusted you as Revan, he is extremely loyal. I don't get that sense from Atton, that he fully dealt with his past. I could also see Kreia wanting to exploit him because of it, for his arrogance in thinking he could hide from her. Might've been an interesting twist for her to try to turn him against you. But he was a good character, all in all I liked him and took him along because he often popped up with funny things to say.

Thanks, I didn't know that. That's neat, and yes, this is my third time through; first time with a Guardian. Guardian was awesome in combat but had NO persuade or charisma, because I merely accepted the game's choices for levelling up. Just as a note, I got many more choices in convo with Atris as well. We actually had an adult conversation, and she almost seemed to consider what I was saying. Then she got snotty again, though, of course. I'm hoping to see more of the same later on in the game; I'm only on my second planet.

This was a very tough choice. It seems I tied up Carth and Atton, and that's appropriate, somehow. Throughout the game, I kept calling Atton 'Carth'. Don't get me wrong. I LOVED Bao-Dur. Liked Jolee very much, but didn't see or hear him, and he was a bit old in the my traditional hotness sense. (Look who's talking). Atton was a good character, full of wit and attitude. But when I first saw that holo of Carth... yeah, that's what it is. I missed him! The only one who would have been higher on the scale was Revan himself. Don't even try to tell me he's never coming back.

She was kinda worse than 'not there'. Yes, she has some interesting things to say, but she seemed so easily swayed from darkside to light it was suspicious. Was she important? It seemed so, yet... I expected her to die, actually, all the way through, because of the comments others made. But she didn't. Would have made a nice betrayer... but she didn't do that, either, not even when confronted by Nihilous, who had power over her. Sorry, didn't think much of her as a character as written. She wasn't convincing. She made a good support Jedi, though.

Considering the drone holos i think is quite likelly, also he doesn't show anymore in the char selection window and you get no info from Kreia about him. (also so far i have not yet finished a game where he become a jedi, so maybe i'm wrong and Kreia speak about him only if you "convert" him) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, she doesn't speak about Baodur even if you trained him. But then again, she couldn't 'hear' him on the Ebon Hawk even though you could, so maybe she just can't get a 'reading' of him? It would seem that Baodur was intended to perish at Malachor. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I do hope he didn't die. He has much potential, both in Atris's thought that he could save Telos, and in the future of Exile. He wasn't even there in person at Malachor, or was it he who fixed the ship? The fact that Kreia can't read him brings up some interesting thoughts, though. Obviously, what happened to Exile at Malachor also happened to Bao-Dur. During the journey, he faces his demons too. That permits him to use the Shadow Generator again, and perhaps to employ similar technology in reverse. If he was undetectable, even as an echo, he would survive the Sith threat, and could conceivably appear in K3 as a companion. Due to his unswerving loyalty, he would want to accompany Exile, above all else; yet he probably could be convinced to assist in rebuilding the Republic, or at least rehabilitating the planets that were destroyed. I'm thinking the dev's left his fate open on purpose.

Several problems... The Handmaiden's mother died waaaaaay before she had any consious memories, and can you picture the Leader of the Echani with Kreia, even 10 years ago??? Where does it say that Revan was taught by Kae??? I've only heard Kreia, and other Masters on Dantooine, but never Arren Kae... Second, the Exile never had a memory wipe. Just because you don't remember his/her past, doesn't mean they don't. The lack of memory on Peragus was because of the sedatives (poison to mere mortals ) that the HK-50 used. There are inferences in the game about the Exile's past, and the devs assume you're smart enough to pick up on the hints... :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exile didn't have a memory wipe? He was Kreia's Padawan. This is STRONGLY inferred, both by the discussion on bonding (master-apprentice) and by the Jedi Council. How could he NOT remember her if she didn't put the whammy on him? He has consciously or unconsciously blocked many things relating to the war itself, and has been on the outer rim so long he's lost track of current events in the Republic. But his training and his master would not be one of those memories. And no sedative would be that selective. She mind-wiped everything that had to do with her role in his life, so he would have no left-over prejudices, one way or the other.