deganawida

Sweet. Thanks, Rhomal.

Oh, it is. I just couldn't help razzing you about some of your, um, idiosyncracies. It was meant to be a funny. Ignore the "lies, myth, and innuendo" bit, if that helps.

[volourn]Quit spreading lies, myth, and innuendo. You lose R00fles![/volourn]

Do they have foul language? politics? imbedded images? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um, yeah, and an X-Rated forum for people over 18 who are into that kind of stuff.

They wouldn't. He'd be banned in 5. : :ph34r:

No, it's more likely being removed because you're a f---in' idiot.

You actually finished it? Heck, I got 10 hours into it and was so thoroughly bored I returned it the next day. Disappointing after Suikoden III.

Beat it five times, got more than halfway through at least 2 other times. What increases the replayability to me is the whole stance you can take on whether the War was right or not.

Notice what was said on pg. 3, about LucasArts being very upset about last week's article? Makes some things around here look a little bit different.

An answer may be found in this article. Please note the following quote: I'd imagine that is why it was closed, and most likely presents problems to OE.

Since this thread has quite rapidly degenerated into bickering, I once again encourage those of you who wish to express your desire to see any closure of the forums be temporary do so here.

Though I've said it elsewhere, I feel compelled to say it again: Like others, I have always appreciated the openness of the developers and employees of Obsidian Entertainment (not just those who used to work for Black Isle). I enjoyed reading the discussions that y'all have had with us, and though I understand that at the moment y'all are unable to discuss as much or as often, I hope that this is just a temporary phase, and that soon we can all enjoy this wonderful community again.

I would be very saddened if the forums were to close permanently. I have always enjoyed the openness and friendliness of BIS/OE, and this has been one of the major factors in my purchasing and playing of their games (the other major factor being the high quality stories and varied gaming experience they've always produced). I sincerely hope that this continues to be a facet of life at Obsidian Entertainment, and hope that any closure would be merely temporary until someone can be hired to manage the forums.

Well said, Sargie, well said. And thank you to everyone else for posting your opinions as well.

For the record, I enjoyed the hell out of KotOR2, as I've stated elsewhere. Even though I had some problems with some decisions, I love the game. In fact, even though I couldn't afford to buy it, I rented it for a solid month, and beat it 5 times during that month. It was a blast, and I have very high hopes that, given a time, OE can surpass the greatness of its predecessor. Further, as I stated in my other thread, I have come to really feel comfortable at this board, so much so that I am reminded of the old BIS forums (back when people still had the "Revered Defender of the Isles" titles and whatnot, which, being a rather infrequent poster and frequent lurker, I never got). For those who don't understand why it is important to OE to interact with their fans on their forums, that was the way it was when BIS was around. The ex-BISers were often on the forums, explaining their desires, wishes, and design decisions, and conversing with forum-goers about things that might not have anything to do with their games, but which they were really interested in. In other words, they were the most accessible developers that I have ever encountered (with the possible exception of Bioware back in the day; Dave Gaider was often up for a good conversation/debate when the two were business partners), and it seems that all of the employees of Obsidian Entertainment have desired to uphold this fine tradition. I, for one, have always been grateful for that openness, that friendliness, and would sorely miss it if it were to disappear forever.

Here's my little petition/request to make it only temporary. If you care to, please post your comments in it. Thank you.

Feargus-- While I can understand how, due to other business constraints and the need to spend time with family (a commendable decision, in my opinion; oh, and congrats on the new little one) you and the other Obsidian employees cannot spend much time at these forums, and while I understand that it is difficult for a company to have its own forums and keep involved in the community without dedicated personnel, I would just like to throw in my voice to say that I hope that any closure of these forums be temporary. Having been a member here since the forums opened, and having been a member at the old BIS forums way back when (though I'll admit I didn't post much back then), I have to say that these forums have a distinctive personality, similar to that of the old forums, and are some of the friendliest, laid-back game forums that I have ever been to. They have helped build a community of gamers, both ex-BIS board members and new gamers, who are intensely interested in following the work that Obsidian produces, and I feel that it would be a shame to close down these forums permanently, as then the community of gamers here would have no method to gather together at one forum and discuss with each other (if not the developers, as is currently the case) the merits of the OE games and game design philosophy. I understand that you feel the need to do this, but I would like to reiterate that there are those of us (and, y'all please post in this thread to lend your voices to mine) who would like the closure to be merely temporary. Thank you, deganawida

I thought it was just Warcraft II with the expansion that was ported over? Lots of fun, and it was constantly being rented at the video stores in Macon. I think that there was also a Warhammer Fantasy RTS. At least, it was a strategy game, and I believe that it was RT.

Thinking of maybe a different approach. The ranger is supposed to be a tough character, surviving in the wilderness when no one else is able to, going up against big baddies either solo or in small groups and emerging victorious, and so on. Perhaps the problem, then, lies not with Favored Enemy in particular, but in focusing the ranger's class ability on offensive abilities. Maybe instead of pure offensive abilities like Combat Style and Favored Enemy, the ranger needs support and defensive abilities to represent his toughness and self-reliance. Maybe make some extraordinary, and others supernatural. Perhaps some of these abilities may be useful in combat, but be useful outside of combat as well, like some kind of stat-boosting ability. This would keep the barbarian and the fighter as the pure damage classes, the paladin as tank, and the ranger as survivor.

In 1st Edition, rangers added damage equivalent to their level to damage against "giant-class enemies", which ran the gamut from orcs to trolls. Phos, Unearthed Arcana has a variant called Favored Terrain, which gives skill bonuses to the ranger when in his terrain.

I voted "Yes", but there is some soundtrack that he did (can't think of what movie, though) that sounded distinctly different. In fact, I wouldn't have know that it was an Elfman flick if my wife hadn't found an interview with him on the DvD.

Part Two So, how do you fix this broken class? To be honest, I no longer know. I had a fix which has now been rendered obsolete by the scout class from Complete Adventurer (which does what the ranger should do much better than the ranger, IMO). I have, however, collected a few ideas, and would love to hear some feedback on them. BTW, these are all balanced with the idea of upping the HD to d10. 1. Remove combat style and HiPS. Alter FE so that one only has to pick type (not subtype in the case of humanoids and outsiders) and give a bonus to saves equal to FE bonus at 17th level (Favored Enemy mastery). This makes FE more appealing and more useful, but the ranger will still only get his benefits with 1/3 of the creature types he encounters. This is the smallest of the changes that I've come up with. 2. Remove combat style, HiPS, FE, Animal Companion, Evasion, and the good Reflex save. Instead, give the Whirling Frenzy variant Rage ability from UA to the ranger while in light or no armor and d10 HD. When using WF, the ranger will get an extra attack, bonus to AC, and bonus to Reflex saves. At 14th level and beyond, he will also gain Evasion while whirling around. This gives the ranger an ability that he can choose when to use, gives him an extra attack (which the designers of 3.5 deem necessary for the ranger), and gives him some of his current bonuses when using this ability. This also makes the ranger a sleek, fast fighting machine, who rushes in when enemies appear and works to quickly eliminate them. Suddenly, the ranger is the sleek alternative to the barbarian, and a viable choice for a combatant type in a four person party. Of course, the Whirling Frenzy name would have to be changed, as Frenzy doesn't quite fit any of the rangers from fiction or reality. Whatever it will be called, make it a result of special training on the part of rangers. 3. Remove combat style, FE, Evasion, Animal Companion, and HiPS. Bump HD to d10, and give the ranger a smite ability, usable x number of times a day. Call it "Ranger Strike", and have it do y amount of damage while also bestowing some kind of penalty to the target at higher levels (such as save vs Fort or be blinded for two rounds). Damage will be minimal, so as to balance the status effects. This has the advantage of representing special training (which is what FE is supposed to represent) and presenting the ranger as a guerilla fighter without being a wilderness rogue. Of course, how much damage, how many times per day, and what status effects should be applied I have no clue as yet. Anyway, these are my three main ideas that still work. I prefer the third, but the second would probably work best right now. I'm not looking to make the ranger uber or anything, just give him his own identity and make him more fun for players while making sense from a class design standpoint. I have, in each case, attempted to remove powerful abilities in an attempt to balance the new abilities. I would, of course, appreciate feedback, both positive and negative, about each of the proposed changes.

Part One Alright, I'm not satisfied with the 3.x ranger. Why? Multiple reasons: 1. It's the only full-BAB class that receives less than a d10 for HD. Even the hexblade gets a d10. Why is this important? First, it is a matter of design. 3 separate hit die values for classes is ridiculous IMO. Second, the purpose of all full-BAB classes is to fill the role of combat specialist in the traditional 4-member party. With a d8/level and being limited to light armor, the ranger can't fulfill this role. The 3.5 PHB even describes the 3.5 ranger's role as "secondary combatant and opportunity attacker". If this is what they want, go whole-hog and reduce the ranger's BAB to 3/4 to match his HD. They couldn't do this, though, as they knew that the ranger had to be good at combat. Oh, and I don't buy the whole, "It's a throwback to 1st Edition" argument, as the differences in HP in 1E between a ranger and a fighter were significantly less than in 3.5E. 2. The ranger is a hack job of a class, design-wise. Virtually all of its abilities come from other classes, of which the druid and rogue have the most influence. The ranger feels and plays like some kind of warrior (not fighter, but the NPC class)/druid/rogue hybrid, and not like a class that has a distinctive role to play in a party. Oh, sure, it gets Track, but anyone can get Track and some, like the barbarian, can do it better, and it recieves limited bonuses to tracking that don't make the ability shine. 3. The ranger's signature ability, Favored Enemy, sucks. There's no other way to put it, really. I love the concept behind it, and on paper it looks like the coolest, most useful ability ever, but in practice it is atrocious. Why is it atrocious? Simple: its utility is entire dependent upon DM fiat. Sure, the player makes a choice as to what his FEs are, but the occurance of FEs in an adventure is up to the DM. The DM shouldn't be forced to include FEs in every adventure just so that the ranger can feel useful, if doing so goes against the DMs story or makes other players feel left out. No other class, by the way, has its signature ability totally dependent upon the DM. 4. Virtual feats are a cheap attempt at balancing. I don't like them. Either give free full feats (preferrably with choice), or give special abilities that one cannot mimic with feats. A good example of both approaches is the monk. The monk essentially receives Improved Unarmed Strike at first level, but his unarmed attack is significantly better than anyone else's strike, as evidenced by the fact that his damage starts at more than 1d3 and ends up being 2d10 (for medium monks). The monk also receives 2 feats, chosen from 4 choices (bad sentence structure, but, hey, it works), that he doesn't have to meet the prereqs for and doesn't have any restrictions on. The ranger's, on the other hand, artificially limit him to light armor, and, in the case of the melee combat style, force him into a role which the PHB admits he is not qualified for. 5. Animal Companions are, IMO, a wasted ability. At half Effective Caster Level, all the AC is good for is scout, and if you get bonuses to Spot and Listen, why do you need the AC to do it for you? They're ineffective in combat, and most likely will get killed shortly after entering combat. None of the famous rangers in D&D novels, or otherwise, save Elbryan, have Animal Companions. True, Drizzt has Guenhyvvar, and the Justicar has Cinders, but Guen is a figurine of wondrous power and Cinders is a sentient hellhound pelt (and didn't become Jus's traveling companion until he'd been skinned). Ren o' the Blade didn't have one, Tanis didn't, Riverwind didn't, Strider didn't, and so on and so forth. It's a bit of a shame that it's such a useless ability for the ranger, as it was originally a ranger-only ability (in 2e). 6. Hide in Plain Sight breaks the rule that no class should be able to sneak better than the rogue. This ability also has the net effect of turning the ranger into some kind of assassin, rather than the warrior that he is.

Firefox 1.0.1 is out, BTW.

*cries for joy*