Helton

Those quotes don't say any other Jedi experienced the same thing, only that no Jedi has the power to live with that pain. Yes, something happened at Malachor. A gravity-well was created, and it crushed everything on the planet. Nothing sentient survived. The Exile was bonded to every single Republic soldier and Jedi who was on Malachor V. Remember the pain he felt as Kreia lost her hand? Magnify that by a few million times and you'll get what he felt. He felt thousands of deaths, all at the same moment, and only he felt them. What turned the rest of Revan's fleet is something different, it came later(or prior). The war itself turned many of his followers, and Revan's "fall" afterwards only magnified it.

If anyone else had felt the pain the Exile had they would have died or done the same thing he did. There is no turning to the dark side when you essentially experience 1000's of deaths first hand. You either die or, if you're a lucky bastard, you rip yourself out of the force.

And KOTOR I left you 90% dead after every boss fight? I killed Uther and Yuthera without taking a hit (Consular), killed Malak's aprentice relatively easily. I killed Malak easy, too: 1. Fight 2. Cutscene 3. Drain all bodies 4. Spam Thermal Detonators 5. Watch victory cutscene MAN! Glad that wasn't an easy fight. In a perfect game should it have been more difficult? Of course. In a game made for the masses who hate having their ego dented? It's not really practical.

That's of course possible, but then he would have to travel alone (as Revan did) in order to be free of manipulation. But, I guess that is what he intends to do.

Brain Storm Mode- On. If what I say is contradictory to what I normally think, it doesn't count. The death of the Council, Atris, and all of the Sith is obviously important. But was it Kreia's plan? Maybe, but I doubt it. Kreia knows the force is controlling and guiding them (guiding may be a better term), she let's it take them to Telos, to Dxun. So much of the plot falls right into the laps of the players. THAT is how the Force works. She hates it, but she uses it. She uses the Force's use of her, which is part of her genius. She does not plan the death of both the Jedi and Sith orders, it just kind of happens and she goes along with it. Her goal is to find knowledge, and when it is found, to give the Exile true freedom. Her goal is not to prepare the Galaxy for something, she doesn't care! The Galaxy could rot for all she cares, but the Exile is beautiful. That is all that matters to her. Choice is there, always. But is it truly a choice if we are influenced by dozens of different things when we make it? We have to consider past experience, how it would go over with people from our past (would father approve?), if we have been repeatedly wrong in the past. Until one has come to terms with his past, no choice he makes will truly be his. The Force controls choice in a different way. It controls the choice you are allowed to make. The Force puts you in a situation where you must make a choice. It does not control what choices you make, but rather when you make them and where. It is all control, and Kreia frees the Exile of all of it (save the Force, which he is already free from... or not?). The question, then, is the Force still guiding the Exile? It would appear so. Up until he regains his Force powers, perhaps, it was not. His destiny was in his hands until then. So what (should)will happen after the events of KOTOR II? The Exile will once again sever his connection with the Force and truly be free. Brain Storm Mode- Off

Yes, there is choice, but there is so much influence. The Force is not the only thing that controls people, other people do it as well. Past events control us. Places control us. The Exile was perfect because he had tackled the biggest problem all by himself, he had removed the Force as an influence on himself.

I would lean more towards Great great great Uncle. Being that Jedi aren't allowed to have children. And with Vandar on a very high place on the Council in KOTOR I, its unlikley he pulled a secret Bindo. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where are people getting this? If there ever is a no-kids rule, it comes long after KOTOR times. There are many force-sensitive families, and many of the better artifacts in both games refer to these families in their descriptions.

No. To be truly free one must release themselves of all influences. Kreia was an influence, and she controlled him. That is why she had to die. If she wanted to control him it would never have been necessary for her to die.

Well, what was her true aim? 1. First she leaves the Jedi order because they cannot offer all of the answers. She seeks knowledge. 2. She, along with Nihlus and Sion learns the ancient Sith ways. She seeks knowledge. 3. The master of betrayal is betrayed and stripped of the force. Plans are revised. You lived without the force, as she is forced to do now, and she wants to know how you did it, and why. She seeks knowledge. 4. She finds the Exile, she studies him and teaches him. She realizes that Sion and Nihlus could not live without the force anymore than we cannot live without oxygen. In their strength is inherent weakness. Upon study, all force users have this weakness, as the force is a crutch. All, that is, save the Exile. She seeks to forge the perfect warrior. She seeks knowledge. 5. She helps the Exile revisit and defeat all of his ghosts. The Council, Dxun, Atris, Malachor V. One's future cannot be free until he is free of his past. These ghosts had to be faced in order to give the Exile true power, the power of choice. She finds an answer for why the Exile stripped himself of the force, and how he lived, her search for knowledge has ended. The Exile has faced all of his ghosts, only in doing so he created one more, Kreia. She seeks to forge the perfect warrior. 6. Kreia allows the Exile to confront her and kill the last thing that controlled him. Her goals are complete. One should not take 'the death of the force' literally. If we are all free to make our own decisions then, in essence, the force has died. That is what Kreia sought, and accomplished. What was her aim, then? At first she sought knowledge, and as she gained it her goals transformed into creating someone who was truly powerful, and truly free.

I know what you're talking about. I wouldn't say having a child is automatically considered a betrayal. I doubt that she was actively thinking of spiting the council as she made love, and so it cannot be considered a betrayal.

This is actually my only problem to see Kreia as Kea... Kreia felt because she was betrayed by someone she loved while it really seem that Kea felt for love <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't see Kea having a child as a betrayal, or as falling to the dark side. The council exiles her. Why? Because she loved, and had a child. Is that not a betrayal? She had been loyal to them her entire life, and she was cast out. It runs along the whole theme that the problem is the masters, the council. They fail to show Kae forgiveness, and thus exile her, betray her. Being the ripe age of 30-40 (guessing Handmaiden at about 20), she had enough time to have trained a few padawans, including Revan... The dark side makes people appear older, and I imagine having the force ripped from you would mess up your face as well, so of course Kreia looks like she's 90. Like the original poster has said, this is just a theory and can't be proven. But you have all failed to disprove it as well, and I think it is quite an interesting potential sub-plot.

The story appears to mirror it in many places. But, no, it wasn't even close.

That's a new one. You fail to prove it, though. Yes, both Kreia and Kae trained Revan... so? But I like it anyways. I'll keep my eyes open for more evidence on further playthroughs.

Well, the first two cave sequences were your past, and the one with Kreia was your present. Why would they go back to the past again? I thought the whole Revan sequence was part of your (potential) future. Same way that Luke's cave vision was of his (potential) future, and if it hadn't been for the cave he may very well have become the next Darth Vader... Something to think about.

I'm pretty sure it was Revan.

answered your own question there, didn't ya?

I adore Bao-Dur... If I was gay

That's a rather shallow thing to say...

Kreia effectively says that you are already assuming things by saying Revan fell. As always, she talks in questions. But did Revan fall? Or was he really preparing the Galaxy for... whatever. In responce to your previous post: 1. I don't remember Kreia saying she never fell, if she would have said that, then she would have said that. 2. The Star Forge was temporary, yes. Why? Because it slowly consumes anyone who uses it. For someone who had truly fallen, this presents little problem, as absolute power is usually (always?) the only goal for a Sith. The very fact that Revan planned to stop using it is evidence that he never *truly* fell. I'm not saying he wasn't a dark Jedi/Sith, and I'm not saying he had not embraced the dark side. The fact is that "fell" is rather vague. Kreia implies he didn't fall, and the rest is interpretation. In the end, it all runs along the central theme of TSL. Good and Evil are vague, do the ends justify the means, could Revan have turned back whenever he wished to? Debating these things is like debating philosophy or religion, because in essense that's what it is. The game is up for interpretation, and thus little things like this are as well.

The AK-47 is one of the most used fire-arms on the planet.

? You can do Nar Shadaa as your first planet.

You could go dark side and do Nar Shadaa, then start doing light side things.

Excellent point. The plot of TSL seemed to imply that both Jedi and Sith are wrong, and that the middle ground is the correct path... So where's the bloody middle ground? Not only don't you get the attribute bonuses (I can live without those), but you never get your prestige class if you stay neutral. I would prefer to be a neutral Jedi personally.

He seemed rather shallow to me, much like Darth Maul. Sure he looked bad, and oh wow, he can kill a planet. The power to kill a planet is nothing in the Star Wars universe. Malak killed many planets, Bao-Dur killed a planet, the Death Star can kill planets, it isn't that big of a deal. Real power is in manipulation. It's a shame you all moan about Nihilus and miss that Kreia is one of the coolest characters in Star Wars, ever. She manipulates everyone throughout the entire game. Nihilus served his purpose, a badass face on the box, and a red herring.

You have to start the end game to get into the tomb. Edit: ie, finish all of the planets.