nightcleaver

Tyrell: Have you ever seen someone say something and thought, "that's stupid" or somesuch, or just been annoyed? By extension, people can recognize the other person's feelings and who they are as a person, not necessarily even thinking they are, overall, unintelligent, and still think this of a person. That's what shdy does, and that's what he's saying. He might be a little more blunt than you'd like, but that's all that's wrong with it - bluntness. Let me translate a few things: When he says, "I find it funny he says I can't get a reaction out of him" he's talking about how you're continuing to insinuate that he's fighting with you - he isn't, even if he takes glee from blowing your (to him) over-serious attitude off completely. You think he's just trying to goad you, though, and thus you dig your hole deeper than it should be, and he and others make fun of it.

Sorry... are you talking about my, "in the save file" comments? In the video, he loads the game twice to start from two different points. Look closely at the window to the right, that has the screenshot of the game to be loaded. (above the screenshot is a name, below it is another name. you'll see what I'm saying) On another, completely different note: The character head in the demo looks exactly like one of the heads in the first KotOR. Plus, she has a bun on the top of her head, and dark looking eyes. Her face is a little more triangular...

Hehehe.... exactly... I like your analysis of my wording...

How would they tell Jedi robes? They're pretty nondescript. They're robes - people might think you're just some odd hermit, like 'Old Ben'. On the other hand, walking around with a lightsaber and nondescript robes, spouting the Jedi Code, might just get you in trouble. Honestly, I can't imagine many people would care if you were a Jedi in the common public. A few scripted sequences would work just fine, I think. Having a few sequences where you get attacked randomly by Sith assassins would work as well. You're being hunted, but they don't have any idea what to look for until you're well known. EDIT: I should rephrase. The PROBLEM with this idea is that you wouldn't know when to have robes on (they are, in fact, armor) and when to have them off, and switching armor in combat is taboo. It would get pretty tedious to switch armor back and forth, even if it were put in the interface like the weapon swapping. Especially considering the difficulty involved - you get bounty hunters, but they fail. Then you run into another person, they call bounty hunters, it fails. What does this add to the game? Would you know, realistically, who told on you or who might tell on you, and where not to wear jedi robes? Might as well just do what I offered above.

Well, it's consolidated. It looks more complex at first, but it really isn't. I dunno, I was unsure about the look too... until this. Maybe I've just gone crazy.

Look further before that. The save file is in the format: Name at top, area at bottom. Otherwise, Eras Jast (a very KotOR name generator'ish name, might I add) is a place on Telos. Thus, the main character is named Arren Kae, whether or not it's a character you'll have join your party in the full game. To be honest, I can't wait for the X-box version - and that's the version I'm buying. It'll run on X-box FAR better than my stupid comp. Of course, it would be a far better idea to buy the PC version if you have a good PC... lots of high res, quick loading goodness. It loads faster on my comp, sure... but the jerkiness makes a lot of wierd glitches and stuff in the engine. To stop that from happening, I'd have to turn off all the fancy lighting and per-pixel effects, which is just stupid - at least the X-box runs with those effects on, and smoothly. I'm sticking to the X-box version, curse it.

It wasn't exactly an argument that I was making, about LOTR. It was more of an expression. Yes, it's brand new. What says they'd have to use the same story, characters that Bioware put in their notes? It HASN'T actually been done yet. Was Tolkien reusing his own work when he changed notes before writing the final product? No! That's because no one had ever SEEN his work before. Would it really be that different if Bioware handed over notes to OBsidian, and obsidian changed and added their spin on things? No, it wouldn't, because it would essentially be Obsidian's work forever after. The handing over of notes would make it collaboration; Obsidian wouldn't be stealing anything unless they totally reused all of Bioware's ideas. What do you mean by, "more interesting"? Are you saying Bioware shouldn't have put tattooine in? No; and tattooine included everything we know about that planet from the movies, with a new spin. If you think they shouldn't have put Tattooine in, I don't see why it matters. There was plenty of original content there. Edit: and I agree with anari as well.

To be honest, it varies. ...(yeah right) No, but seriously... sometimes I feel like I can't wait for it. I guess I've matured, in that I don't think about it quite as much as I could. I do have a life now, I guess. Wierd.

... err, one is old, more grey haired. The other has white hair, different color eyes, younger. I don't see the overlap here.

whatever, it's a slip Also, to whoever said the demo was laggy: The hiccups could be due to internet connect, computer stuff, etc. I didn't see anything that would stop gameplay.

I'm pumped. I've listened/watched the walkthrough video five times, I've meticulously downloaded every screenshot of the game released so far and kept them on my computer. I've downloaded and watched other videos several times (though some of them were pretty insufficient) and have the best ones on my HD. ... Did I mention I spend way too much time on this forum? Oh, just to save Hades One the trouble... This game will suck.

Yes. They made it clear would not be, "all dark", and that triumphs would happen. The key here is the word, "darker" instead of saying, "dark". Also, they say they're working on making the the LS/DS contrast greater in the sequel, making things the character can do more advanced than stealing candy from babies. This would DEFINITELY make the game a bit darker darkside than KotOR I's darkside was. Seriously, I found most of the DS choices to be more amusing than serious. Also, Malak wasn't a very serious villain. He was stupid, frankly; uncunning and blunt. There was only one villain, and overall the Republic was still pretty much organized, and there was a Jedi Order still. In the second one, the Jedi Order is forced into hiding (what's left of it that's not destroyed or assassinated) which is definitely darker than the first game. There are multiple villains, we can surmise, being an age of "Sith Lords" more or less. The game is, overall, much lonelier with all this going on than the first. In the first, also, the Republic fleet withstood incredible odds for an amazingly long time while the Sith fleet pounded on them with Battle meditation, then (somehow) having the werewithal and firepower to completely turn the tides and obliterate the Sith Fleet (or what was left to resist, and wasn't fleeing.... which I theorize is what happens for the second game) with or without Bastila's meditation. If you ask me, killing her should've just about killed their chance of doing anything more than destabilizing the Star Forge... meanwhile they'd likely be surrounded and destroyed, much as the darkside ending. To make things darker in the sequel, nothing like THAT (to specify - the LS winning no matter what, even if it IS dependent on your character still that's pretty light-hearted) would happen. The meeting with Saul could've been made darker - by extension, anything similar in the sequel could be darker. The questions and especially the ANSWER's were pretty lame and humorous (though humor is welcomed in the sequel, none of the answer's seemed real) and somewhat formulaic. Torturing for hours was pretty pointless, as it stood, I could'nt explain why - but if it were questioning like that for hours with the torture it would be more serious and less... comic-bookish 'maniacal'.

Ohh, pfah. She'lll be in there, whether or not you get to choose whether she died.

Actually, it's pretty safe to say that this is the E3 demo being, err... demo'ed. They told everyone that the plot in the demo had nothing to do with the plot in the full game. It's a very, very simple plot too - it can hardly be called a plot. Considering that all the enemies looked like enemies from the first KotOR, including the Sith Master, and that there weren't any names... It doesn't look like much trouble went into it, especially considering how much work goes into the final game. Maybe it took a week to make, and they might have used some stuff they had decided to cut from the final game or something. ADD: Ohh! Looking at it again, I noticed the first two character's you fight in the Sith tomb are unarmed - Martial Arts of some sort, it looks like from their stance. No, that's just stupid. People fought unarmed in the first one...

In the D20 system, Yoda can't force jump. He's a "consular", right? Level 17 or 20 or whatever, it really doesn't matter. He can't technically block force lightning, or do anything he did in the movies unless it followed the D20 rules. Point is: the problem isn't that people are unfaithful to the big D20 book. To be honest, if D20 were at all dependent on setting and tried to be accurate, would there be the one big book of D20 for every possible rpg setting? Heck no. Now that I've said that: I didn't like the BGII expansion, Throne of Bhaal. I didn't really like the idea of it. I mean, sure; I can sort of understand your Bhaal blood making you more powerful, but your comrades are that powerful too. But it's all about context - difficulty in KotOR I changed as you leveled, or it should have, and it didn't much make a difference. I absolutely agree that you shouldn't be popping rancor monster's like candy, but on the other hand the level system is pretty insufficient and crappy as is. More levels only means more steps to your top skill level, which to me is more accurate and more interesting. You hit 20, but what now? You're as powerful as you'll ever get, which to be honest, doesn't make much sense considering how EASY it was to get there. I like games where you never QUITE reach your maximum potential, so you always feel like you're progressing. It's not just about hack n' slash, and more of it, but of hack n' slash actually meaning something beyond the very repetitive, soulless action that's all too easy to fall to the trap of. On the StarForge, fighting was just that; fighting. That would be fine if it were an action movie with all sorts of interesting choreography and special effects, but it's not an action movie. It's an RPG. The driving motive of an RPG, as long as CRPG's are so limited in what animation they can do, is character development. At the end of the first KotOR, I knew there wasn't any point except in getting it finished, and the fighting was just an obstacle and a nuisance. I DON'T think that should be repeated, and if that means they need more levels, so be it. Being level 20 right before the last fight would be really nifty. And god, what level is Malak in the last fight? He was an easy fight, but that's because I had a buttload of uber items and MEDPACKS. To me, using medpacks like that felt like cheating, but what other possibilities for strategy were there in such a melee battle? Well, that's true D20 Star Wars for ya'. Do you REALLY think you'd care, if it had Epic levels but the story was well done and it didn't seem like you were just an invincible bad-***? I doubt it. The character would be the same, if not better, than if it had the normal 20 levels.

That would be dorky. Someone said her name was slipped a while back - a lot of people actually, though maybe just because they heard it from the few that saw it. At the time her name was something like "Atris". That said, I seriously doubt they'd put a cameo appearance as the cover right under our noses without being blatant about it. IF it is Bastila, *I* think that says some very bad things about the new plot... maybe TOO derivative... That said, I should add they haven't truly specified who will end up in your party (during any period of the game) - they've only mentioned T3 and left it pretty open for other cameos(as your party).

I would go with, "not necessarily moved." But no, it's not old - it's in the announcements on the mainpage, newer than the Dxun announcement. I don't see them giving us a walkthrough with TOTALLY false information, or for that matter an old video.

Check out the LA site, underneath the main logo (sith mask/white hair)... http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/ !!! If you don't want me to spoil before you see, don't read on. Things I like: The style and color is awesome for the interface. Who is the person taking Malak's spot to the left of the main menu, I wonder? and GOD was it perdy. It ran incredibly smoothly - I've forgotten how crappy my computer really is. Force Jump! no more wierd, buggy teleportation... you go WHOOSH and the camera even FOLLOWS you! If they pull off the story and NPC stuff as well or better than the first, this will be friggin amazing. That's the only thing I think could go wrong, short of LA cancelling it suddenly. (It doesn't look like there are any veteran writers from BIS - are there any?) I'm hyped up. Ohhh... he says, "february 2005" still. Darn. Ahh, and we discover the beach planet from some of the screenshots is, in fact, Telos. Does this make Telos a pretty rural area? I wonder... Is that the final logo? I can't see why it wouldn't be... looks awesome...

Maybe it would completely silent. I'd like that, though I don't think it would work so well (except for a horror-Star Wars story).

Nice try at being condescending, but i understood what you meant from the beginning. Well, if none of the above was clear enough, then suffice to say that i don't think romances should be included at all in RPGs. Most of the time, the game's premise doesn't even lend itself to their existebce, as you're supposed to develop feelings for characters who have only been traveling with you for a very short time (and which you can barely relate to), and have to pay attention to their calls and needs while simultaneously defending yourself from attacks coming from all sides. If they have to be included for some reason - like pandering to loveless teens who want some virtual nookie - then they shouldn't be taken lightly, and should be mature elements. Obviously, you can't see what I'm saying. The fact that you said, "nice try at being condescending" proves this. Ok, this argument I can work with. (which is all I was saying when I was trying to get you to give examples: 'Something, anything you like about the plot' etc.) I never felt like I was supposed to have feelings for a computer character while I was playing either BGII OR KotOR OR even Ps:T. (I know you aren't even talking about the last one... and to give you an idea how you haven't been understanding me, I feel at this point I need to leave that little reminder in because of how you've been interpreting everything I've said) What I'm saying is that the Romance is largely dependent on plot. Basically, yes, the romance doesn't fit as well as it could and they push it a bit. Still, I think the romance could and should be salvaged, despite the plot. (the several star maps and Malak were kind of contrived) I also think the CORE of the romance was just fine. Jolee asks you about truly loving, not just an infatuation, and the only response available is, "well...", so we can surmise that your character isn't in love with any of the other character's at that point, and thus it's not expecting you to be. The Carth romance is pretty much just flirtatious... and though I'll take note of the semi-marriage proposal as out of place, it really doesn't push anything on you. It does, however, add character, and most girls seem to like the Carth character just fine for this. Then there's the Bastila romance. There really isn't any "romance" until the end, before which you can treat her basically any way you want as long as you're nice to her in order for this to reach it's summation. She declares her feelings for you, but you have the absolute right to reject her. The kiss, I think, is just the main character's fooling around. That, just like friendships (which can easily be considered out of place in a game) and family relationships (which can be way out of place) can add to the plot. They have feelings for eachother, apparently; I don't quite see (with how little time is spent on it) how it eats up the plot inappropriately. It's a little melodramatic, but it's star wars. Besides, when people are "infatuated" with eachother, they often say those things whether they know the person really well or not. Obviously, if you don't want your character to go that far, you don't have to.

Maybe the second one, with a stylized silver Sith Lords (ala the first one) at the bottom?

I'm not against character development, i'm against elements which are perceived as being means of character development, but which in the end are not. Being against a romance element isn't the same as being against character development. A main character can be developed in multiple ways, wheter in the statistical or social/interactive aspects. I just feel romances are perhaps the most pointless elements of character development. I think of them as being usually forced and contrived, and some are shoved into the plot in a way to make players feel like it's taking them somewhere with it. And have you asked yourself why this appears to be so? They're specifically made so the plot usually revolves around them if they are active. It's smoke and mirrors. This is similar to how the plot of Baldur's Gate 2 worked. When you confront Bodhi after the Underdark, if you were involved in a romance, the character in question would get abducted, thus throwing at the players another forced, additional concern in the game. Yet, it didn't changed the plot one bit; you were just given another element to add to the plot, a sidequest, so to speak, which was of little to no relevance. It's shallow, at best. Beats me, specially when Bastilla was a very ill-devised character. You didn't understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying that you were against character development, unlike others here. It gives additional meaning to the plot, and YOU don't have to bother with it. If the problem is that you don't see why someone would put a romance in, that's fine, but evidently it adds something for a fair majority of people. I'd like you to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING that indicates good plot in this game. I'll probably be able to give a retort that states those things are no better or worse than the romance. Romance - contrived? How so? It seems that you're arguing a romance can only be contrived when it's in a game, and *I* would argue that most of the plot in a video game has to be somewhat contrived in that same or similar sense. Romance fails in video games for the same reasons friendships or familial relationships fail. Sure, Imoen in BG 2 was supposed to be your sister, and you had that feeling for a little while... but eventually it just faded out and didn't make any sense. Who is this girl?? Did THAT anything to the plot? Sure it did, despite the limitations. In addition: There are COUNTLESS ways to make video game romances better, it's just that there are too many problems with time(lack thereof)/the plot in general (somewhat linear, VERY level oriented regardless of replayability) and the fact that the main character has serious limitations on development due to people insisting "free will". (Whatever the heck that means, in this case) There are, however, workarounds. I would agree that the romances in BGII and even KotOR aren't nearly as good as they could be, but they still add emotional context. (If that's your feeling that they don't because of how "horrible" they really are, that's not anyone else's issue.... unless they agree with you) I hate bananas, but I like banana chips and banana flavored candy. Banana's have a horrible texture, and apparently some people think so too but still enjoy them for their flavor. Would it be annoying and nonsensical for me to fight the production of banana's for mass consumption, because they were a waste of human resources? No. However, I might say, "I don't see the point in eating banana's" because they're so horrible to me, but still understand that not everyone hates banana's (for whatever reason). Is that what you're saying? If so, there really isn't any point in arguing. If you still can't see what I'm saying, I don't really understand what your problem with romances is. (In other words, if you can explain specifics and examples, please do so)

I wouldn't agree on the hippies, though I'm not one myself. Would it be a good guess that you're pretty conservative? (Ha!)

I think the whole Star Forge was crappy nonsense. I'm sick of the, "throwing everything I have, but withholding just enough that he'll survive" crap. Basically, it's like the Kung-Fu tradition of ONE AT A TIME, PLEASE. It totally takes the drama out of it for the sake of more fighting, and considering that I didn't particularly care for the combat engine in that game in the first place, well... I think cloning is exactly what they did. Either that, or the combat engine was so easy to master that they had to use excessive spawning to slow down the player... Hmm, maybe they should just give a penalty of several hitpoints to yourself when wielding the dual lightsaber (insert laughing face)

Blah. People were just working around it