Immortalis

I think people don't realize that by having negative things in a game that you "love to hate" you actually feel better when you over come them.. I don't mean that repetitive or poorly designed Inventory screens or annoying bags of holding / scroll cases / ect.. should stay. Those were engine limitations that need to die in a fire. However.. when OE just gives you everything on a silver platter.. it cheapens the entire experience. I think everyone forgets those magical moments where your just a lone guy.. scratching and crawling out of candle keep trying to make something happen.. It feels overwhelming.. maybe even annoying.. but in the end.. you feel good. You can't just teleport every mundane thing to a magical infinite stash and sell it all off.. You feel weak and helpless.. you try to find every advantage you can.. you do any easy quest or take any companion because without every tiny advantage.. your screwed. I am talking first play throughs before these games got meta'd to death and you could solo the game with an inventory of monster summoning scrolls and fireballs. We will see when the game releases.. I think the Stash thing is gonna be nixxed for PoE 2 if we ever get that far.

uhh.. Nope. Usually by the time you hit level cap the game has been mostly explored.. most side quests are finished.. The game tends to fall into a much more linear narrative where you are basically wrapping things up.. Maybe finish up doing the hard optional dungeons that are really challenging.. maybe those will have really great item based rewards.. possibly the best in the game I would imagine just like Durlags or arguably Watchers Keep.. (depending what your building).. Lets you feel that sense of accomplishment for beating something harder then the final boss and getting some of the best advantages the game has to offer. Then for that closure of the great writing and plot you've been following.. you finish off the final baddy and play the game again! Sounds perfect to me actually. EDIT Rereading what I just typed.. Sounds better then perfect.

Wait what? I seriously thought its all on purpose. I need a fry meme picture right now

Yep, a lot of people have left, during the Kickstarter even. They could smell the foulness of these decisions miles away. I wish my RPG sniffer was as good as theirs. (To my defense, I wasn't following the Kickstarter as closely as I should have) Good thing for you that you're not out any money, then. Unless I'm mistaken? If everything we vote on or write is so meaningless, then why are you even here on the forum? I believe he's speaking to ~Le XP Debate~ specifically. Ihr krieg ist vorbei, ok? I have nothing against Gromnir at all.. he seems like a nice guy.. but I will never begrudge someone who is confused about what he is saying.. I have no idea half the time what Gromnir is talking about.. all I know is he is having a lot of good fun doing it. I hope he knows that when debating topics "in-Character" he is just asking for misinterpretation.. lol experience reveals that there is far less misinterpretation than you might expect. what is common is the stuff such as, "Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare. "HA! Not So Fun Understanding What You're Saying!" in point o' fact, the Gromnir shtick is kinda a foolproof schmuck detector. ... and am betting you understood this post quite well. HA! Good Fun! I take back you being a nice guy ... Do you have illusions that your writing style is fully legible to everyone? Sometimes you speak quite clearly.. but when you get going with all your ye olde orc talk coupled with almost no grammatical structure or spell checking.. I understand english is not your first language.. I don't wanna be a grammar nazi but common.. I really don't understand you most of the time.. Want me to lie? Maybe I can catch the jist of it if I read closely but you jump around all over the place..

So close.. I guess the sawyer koolaid is too strong.

Yep, a lot of people have left, during the Kickstarter even. They could smell the foulness of these decisions miles away. I wish my RPG sniffer was as good as theirs. (To my defense, I wasn't following the Kickstarter as closely as I should have) Good thing for you that you're not out any money, then. Unless I'm mistaken? If everything we vote on or write is so meaningless, then why are you even here on the forum? I believe he's speaking to ~Le XP Debate~ specifically. Ihr krieg ist vorbei, ok? I have nothing against Gromnir at all.. he seems like a nice guy.. but I will never begrudge someone who is confused about what he is saying.. I have no idea half the time what Gromnir is talking about.. all I know is he is having a lot of good fun doing it. I hope he knows that when debating topics "in-Character" he is just asking for misinterpretation.. lol

And why are you, of all people, now giving me the roll-eyes? Your posts always make me laugh. You have a really dry wit.. I wish I was as snarky as you. Haha

Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare. HA! Not So Fun Understanding What You're Saying! Role playing an orc? It's really hard for me to understand what he's talking about.. He's been doing it for years and I usually just skip over his posts. No, it doesn't. There are reasons why people specifically don't want Kill-XP in the game. Which can be solved but that takes too much logic on your end. *Flings poo* Almost the exact opposite happened in the last thread.. the votes were heavily biased in favor of combat xp last I checked.. and althought objective based xp wasn't far behind.. almost NOBODY wanted the current system.. The first person to say polls are inherently flawed was me and it had nothing to do with the results.. it was me recognizing that even if Combat XP was the winning selection, I don't expect obsidian to make a change based on a forum poll.. only register people aren't happy with the current direction. Way to misquote and skew reality to fit your imaginary world.

Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare. HA! Not So Fun Trying To Understand What You're Saying! Oh you.. FYI: The last poll was locked for reaching 500 posts.. not sure how he can bump it. Unless theres ANOTHER combat xp poll running around here..

Yes!

Sorry to ruin your forum with our useless opinions Why post in it? Because it slowly turned into captain ahab chasing the white whale of kill-xp. You wont get it, like some other things it wont change no matter how long you discuss it. I agree that it is disheartening to see thing not in the game that you personaly really like but at this point it doesnt matter anymore. Aim your effort at something that is not set in stone, deal with it and move along. People like discussing it.. can you stop derailing the thread.

Totally Agree.. I'm glad he cuts through the **** and says like it is, it's refreshing after all the PR spin you hear everywhere else.. Nobody is saying he doesn't care or isn't a good designer. He is extremely passionate I just wish he cared more about our opinions.

Wowow.. You do know that sawyer can dish it out with the best of us right? Have you actually read some of the stuff he's said? I would never talk about him the same way I would Tim Cain or MCA.. only Sawyer provides the really good gems via quotes. I don't think I have ever called Sawyer a bad designer.. he's not.. he's very intelligent.. But he is very brash, stubborn and can even be sorta hostile sometimes.. The only reason we hold him up as a poster child is because there are just so many good quotes of him trashing other designers, players or ideas. He's no angel on this crazy internet man. Do your homework before you roll a white knight class. I do like to keep my criticism of him not personal. I would never attack him as a person and if anything I ever said seemed too far or too personal I apologize. I get what you mean but just because Sawyer has no problem "dishing it out," I would think that doesn't entitle people to come back stronger and harder and feel like he's okay with that. But hey, maybe he'd disagree and think it's fine, who knows... we are after all talking about someone neither of us know personally (which I am officially starting to find kind of weird so I'm gonna stop this here!) As for the quotes trashing other players, designers or ideas... well I have a feeling that you're exaggerating a measured argument against something as "trashing it," but hell, I'll bite: care for some examples? That actually sounds like it'd be super entertaining :D So you didn't google roguey.. made me do it.. When he says most games get it wrong and most designers don't give 2 ****s about their product.. thats not a good old fashion trashing?

Wowow.. You do know that sawyer can dish it out with the best of us right? Have you actually read some of the stuff he's said? I would never talk about him the same way I would Tim Cain or MCA.. only Sawyer provides the really good gems via quotes. I don't think I have ever called Sawyer a bad designer.. he's not.. he's very intelligent.. But he is very brash, stubborn and can even be sorta hostile sometimes.. The only reason we hold him up as a poster child is because there are just so many good quotes of him trashing other designers, players or ideas. He's no angel on this crazy internet man. Do your homework before you roll a white knight class. I do like to keep my criticism of him not personal. I would never attack him as a person and if anything I ever said seemed too far or too personal I apologize. EDIT: If you want more of his quotes let me know.. I got a collection going (I just google roguey and pick the best ones that come up)

If you go back and read the 1500 posts on this topic that are all in the threads that got locked.. I mentioned like 5 ways to get around this abuse.. one of them is close to what your saying. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I've heard a lot from people who want Kill XP and next to nothing from people who don't. Do these people actually exist? In the end, as Polanski said, the devs likely are already well enough aware of the pros and cons, I suppose all that's left is to show them our preference while there's still (possibly) a window of opportunity for such a big change to gameplay. Actually, I'm not sure that they could even make such a big change at this point without delaying the game... There's a sawyer post flying around that said XP could be changed relatively late in the development cycle if it needed to be.. The balancing though.. that's a bigger problem methinks.

If you go back and read the 1500 posts on this topic that are all in the threads that got locked.. I mentioned like 5 ways to get around this abuse.. one of them is close to what your saying.

I can see this game being speed run.. Make a human rogue with these attributes.. make sure to buy invisibility scrolls from this vendor.. okay so use them here.. talk to this guy.. run here.. grab this.. kill that.. you should be level 6 now.. talk to this guy.. pass the diplomacy check.. okay go here and stealth past this entire map.. no reason just wolves and beetles.

Stop flinging poop please

I wonder how many people would kickstart a darklands RPG.. he's just an older grognard then us.. WAIT.. Josh is a Fanboy of his old school game and thinks IE is what we think PoE is.. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

and Why is there not a very high bar for changing these kind of core mechanics? Wouldn't it just be easier to stick to what is known to work (even if its not perfect) so that the development team can instead commit more resources to producing fun and engaging content? I made this exact arguement my first day on this forum.. it hasn't changed one bit and I agree fully. One of my favorite things about BG 1 was that exploration.. I almost liked the lack of quests or direction.. I just walked in any direction and sometimes you would meet NPC's who were crazy or **** that shoot of a quick conversation then you wreck them.. gain experience for beating a fight that was potentially really hard for you.. had to use every consumable and every trick of the trade.. and you felt great. Now it's like.. oh that big bad guy is here.. go fight him and a 100 ****ing beetles too.. when you get back ill give you a farmers hat +3 and 2 level ups. (exaggerated obviously but that's how it feels to me)

If I'v gained any non-combat experience on this forum..

I'm pretty sure that you don't even try to understand.. I didn't get that from what he is saying.. I think the problem is that I am willing to see your side of the argument.. I totally get and agree with the pluses that no kill-xp is trying to achieve.. my beef is just the method to get there. You and a few others are actually just against the kill-xp system because it seems "archaic" and "dated" 2014 YOLO.. No matter what explanation or half measure I offer.. it's not enough.. inexcusable.. NEVER! Like you just won't allow it to exist even though people in this thread who are against it.. are explaining in their own words that fighting is lackluster because it doesn't feel like it has purpose.. but nobody is allowed to say.. Kill -XP is missing.. no we have to point and type around that but still we say .. "Theses wolves and beetles and lions are boring and I want some meaning from fighting them"

But that is so much extra work, why would you want to make the poor devs do so much work... Work is hard.. multi classing.. unique classes with special feats.. balanced combat xp.. its too hard... it's too much work to keep track of it.. good thing our "publisher" is now a forum of 15 year old cry babies.. otherwise we might be held accountable and actually need to work a little overtime here and there.. It's interesting to see the huge difference between InXile and Obsidian and how they deal with their community. I am sure many people weren't happy with the direction of wasteland 2.. but at least Brother None doesn't treat / ignore his own community like they are disease ridden pariahs after the checks all cash.

Deus ex had that, its not a real rpg but the underlying system is the same. People sneaked around to get sneak xp, than used diplomacy or whatever to get another chunk xp for the same route and in the end killed all the npc's they talked with 2 min ago because it gave them extra xp. Your right.. there's no way to solve this abusive behaivior except to axe the entire system.. like if theres a bump in the road.. lets just demolish the whole highway.

Why.. Seriously Why? Why is everyone dodging the obvious solution with these lame attempts at solving the problem that has one huge obvious solution. You want bandits to ride the wolves or the wolves to be eating pigs with dialogue and lore popups.. you want obsidian to stop bug fixing to make an eco system with realistic wolf simulation.. you want farmer joe to need 10 wolf pelts for a new coat.. you want loot and items to fall out of the wolfs asss when it dies.. just make them give kill xp.. Look, I'm totally with you there. I'm just trying not to derail this thread, and also, there's a very real chance we might not get that change made, so I'm just offering some potential next-best-case scenarios. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, that's all I'm saying. Im totally okay with half way points but adding a bunch of fetch quests to the game is a half way point everyone will hate.