Immortalis

So.. What your saying is that you support combat xp?

Why? It matches the previous statistics of roughly half the forum wanting Combat XP.. That hasn't changed. Almost everyone on the forum believes quest XP should exist, about half the people on the forum think Combat XP should exist. This has always been the case. If I made the poll say: Do you want Combat XP or No Combat XP.. It would be a 50 - 50 split.. but many combat Xpers want what IE had so they generally vote in both categories. If this poll hit 300 votes.. I would guess that combat XP would be around 150..

Which is precisely what's wrong with 90% of polls posted on boards like this - they become skewed to the opinions of the person posting the poll - there should always be some form of "other" option - even in the case of a simple yes or no vote there is room for a maybe. I voted for 4 out of the 7 or 8 options.. I think many of the stuff up there is stupid (Lock XP?).. but not as stupid as letting people who have no opinion voice an opinion.. it's just white noise.. Go make a fanboy thread somewhere else where you and your waifu pillow of J.E. Sawyer sip tea and talk about how Obsidian can do no wrong. This thread is for big boys who have an opinion on the game and want to discuss it. Or I can remain here and continue to inject my opinions into the debate whether you agree they are valid or not - I'm just messing with you.. I still think a "I Have no Opinion" option on the poll is stupid.. Having an "Other Idea Not Listed" choice has some credibility..

Which is precisely what's wrong with 90% of polls posted on boards like this - they become skewed to the opinions of the person posting the poll - there should always be some form of "other" option - even in the case of a simple yes or no vote there is room for a maybe. I voted for 4 out of the 7 or 8 options.. I think many of the stuff up there is stupid (Lock XP?).. but not as stupid as letting people who have no opinion voice an opinion.. it's just white noise.. Go make a fanboy thread somewhere else where you and your waifu pillow of J.E. Sawyer sip tea and talk about how Obsidian can do no wrong. This thread is for big boys who have an opinion on the game and want to discuss it.

Except it won't be represented in the result, that way. I think Immortalis and you are too focused on only looking at it from the perspective of giving any potential person who has a firm opinion on the poll's issue, a platform to voice that opinion. Whereas I also look at it from the perspective of gaining statistical data about where the community as a whole stands on an issue, and that requires additional considerations such as the aforementioned "Other" and "Don't know/care" options. For example, imagine if this (or any other) poll uncovered that 90% of poll participants are in favour of an idea which until then, Obsidian didn't think anyone wanted. Don't you think it makes a big difference to know, whether the idea is in fact near-universally strongly wanted, or whether it's just a tiny organised minority that wants it, and a majority that isn't outspokenly against it but also doesn't see a benefit in it? In the second case, the cost of implementing the idea would only go towards improving the game for a few people, which may not be the best way to spend that time/money. Also, note that in some cases, it actually is possible to have "Don't know/care" as a strong opinion which one would want to become a part of a poll's result, e.g. "I don't care which option the devs choose as long as they feel it's the right thing, and I don't want to let those other forum members control the narrative and make the devs think everyone wants them to implement whatever option ends up being most popular in this poll". Denying them that non-option is just as bad as any other potential bias or slant when creating a poll. You: EVERYONE LISTEN! I HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS TOPIC.. I don't care what decision is made and will be happy with whatever the devs decide. Me: Thanks your input. Very valuable for this discussion.. [/sarcasm] I don't think a voice should be given to people who have no opinion other then a non-opinion.. This thread is about discussing the viability of different xp sources..

Just so everyone knows.. this poll changes the dynamics of the argument.. This is no longer a Us vs Them argument between combatXP and non-CombatXP.. This is only a discussion on which sources of XP should exist and why.. The fact Quests is outperforming Combat doesn't mean we should have quest and not have Combat.. It means more people think Quests are a viable source then Combat.. I wanted to stop people trolling and **** posting.. That's my job.. and just discuss the facts and pro's and con's of each option.

"don't know / don't care (i.e. whatever the devs think is best)" Sorry I meant to state that this poll only applied to people with a functioning brain.. Fanboys need not apply. If you wanted an option that would allow you to just be an echo chamber for whatever the devs decide.. You don't bring any meaningful discussion to this thread. Just log out and wait for the game to release and you will be happy with what we convince Josh to do.

I'm just having some fun.

You run a Bestiary in your PnP games? Common..

Thanks.. I agree.. With this part.. not the rest.. Combat XP is obviously the best choice.

I would argue this is one of the most unbiased polls so far. Take notes.

So half the forum wanted Combat XP / Objective XP for doing things besides quests that were challenging so they didn't feel exhausted or unstimulated by large amounts of trash mobs while exploring the world outside of questing. The other half of the forum wanted Quest Driven XP so that progression was not based on how many things you killed but just followed the pacing of the game and you would be equally rewarded no matter how you solved objectives. There are a few other people who want to be snowflakes and will say they had some special middle ground.. nobody cares. ========= After 6ish Capped threads at 500 posts.. and several polls.. Josh's solution is rewarding Xp for opening locks and disabling traps.. the one thing from Baldurs Gate 2 nobody wanted to see make a return. What the hell just happened?

The game does look really good.. those environments are tight.. but with first person games coming so far.. I don't see Isometric really being a good medium for doing "Atmospheric Horror" genre.. It just doesn't really hit the mark that well.. If that game was a Tormentish type game with emphasis on story.. That would be great.

The fact it's an adventure game kinda ruins it.. I always got bored playing Sanitarium.. Even though it's such an atmospheric trip.. even by today's standards.. I like combat mechanics and progression..

Not really. The beta's problems have little do with rules and everything to do with implementation and "feels". The principles of "Sawyerism" (by which I mean things like class balance, "gamist" attribute design, etc) have little bearing on issues like animation and visual feedback, combat speed, pathfinding, etc. I disagree.. I think game design greatly effects things like combat and pacing and "feels".. Adding abilities, cooldowns, changing the pacing of combat all for balance reasons will also effect how the game plays and the player feedback you get. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Sorry I'm not mature enough to take the high road.. too many fanboys I need to smack around. It's time they became men.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68878-pillars-of-eternity-early-2015-beta-feedback-and-game-polish/ This is the part where I say "I Told You So" And the all the Obsidian fanboys nerd cry because they were squabbling and moaning about how devs had everything under control and making design decisions 2 months before release was perfectly fine.. Oh wait no we are pushing the game out to next year. Wonder how they are funding this Oh And... You sound like someone who doesn't really understand how game design works from a practical standpoint. For example, attributes in RPG's are not really core systems, they're essentially number modifiers, they can be tweaked or even completely altered just fine even close to release. In fact, that's the whole purpose of the beta: to get feedback on such things. This guy looks really dumb now..

Now it is.. Couldn't of done it without you.

Ok, here is what I saw reading the OP: First: It has become apparent that Obsidian seems to really want to rush this game out the door. There is no basis for this. The impersonal use of the pronoun was employed in order to give his opinion an air of objective assessment instead of it being the result of his own impression. He could have easily said "I think Obsidian is trying to rush this game out the door," then the discussion could have been about those things that made him feel that way, and others could have offered their own reactions to these evens. Second: little known fact, this game was going to be released even earlier than December. How is this a little know fact? This statement is couched in terms as if he has busted some conspiracy and used to imply that Obsidian was even more unrealistic in their previous expectations. In addition, the only thing resembling an official release has always been Winter 2014. During the KS event, I believe they had hinted at a spring 2014 release, but later said that the scope of the project made them delay to winter. Of course this contradicts that poster's claim that Obsidian is trying rush the game out since they have in fact developed a schedule based on the scope of the project and not on initial expectations. But they wanted to keep it from releasing close to Dragon age 3. This statement implies that the OP has some sort of intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the decision project for release, when in fact it is entirely conjecture on the part of the OP. And the So called ""Beta"" IS acouly a alpha they just relised to make time for the December relise. And how can this NOT be trolling? Others have pointed out the problems with this statement in the thread. It is obviously in a beta state, the developers have called it a beta. It is a small slice of the game. So, in my opinion, much of what the OP wrote he just made up, and made up specifically to incite other people. It masqueraded as a constructive post (complete with the implication of evidence to back up his opinion). He could have very well expressed his concern as his own impressions and invited a discussion (or, if this wasn't just for attention, join another thread I am sure discusses this very topic somewhere else on the boards). Thanks Lephys.. Unfortunately your assertions are just as much your opinions as the OP's opinions are his.. Trolling or not.. Obsidian has obviously set a deadline that meets their budget requirements... Wether there is some wiggle room or not.. Who knows.. I do know they aren't gonna work for free and with Josh redesigning the game every morning when he comes into work.. well.. I just don't see this game being a bugless polished game at release.. I want an amazing game.. I really do.. but when Backers are worried about quality.. especially with upwards of 500 bucks of their own cash at stake.. It's a legitmate thread. You can disagree with the OP.. of course, but the fanboys coming in here and trashing the place and ****ting on the walls is just pathetic..

I love how someone who backed this game made a thread worried about the final level of quality and like a pack of hounds.. the 12 year old key board warriors descended on this thread to the defense of their infallible Obsidian. I can picture the tiny little fingers chittering on small apple laptops in a Starbucks cafe somewhere.. their faces in a permanent sneer as they stare at the screen in a cold sweat.. Slamming the F5 key so they can fight off the obvious moronic hordes of trolls invading their bastion of fanboyism.

Nope.. You're wrong.. The engine was already made when they started.. When I say system I mean game mechanic system not technical system as in a rendering routine or AI manager.

You realize they saved a ton of money by purchasing those Unity assets, right? And shouldn't a smaller team save money? Oh, and Pillars of Eternity's development will be roughly the same as Wasteland 2's, it will just stay in beta for a shorter period. Your arguments don't really seem to have any merit. My only argument is that you didn't understand my original post and you're an angry fanboy that made stuff up in your head. The rest is my opinions.

I haven't shipped any titles, but then again, I'm not the one claiming the developers have no idea what they're doing. That would be you. What changes have they made to the attribute system that are so outrageous? Action speed and deflection? Those things were already in the game. Up to here, I can where these opinions come from, even agree with some of it. But that: Any inside information about the company's assets / liabilities you care to share with us and are any of our business? Feargus has said in interviews that their overhead per month is roughly 1 million dollars.. This is I believe their whole company and not specifically the PoE team which only has a fraction of the developers on it.. But they have much higher overhead then say InXile.. Every day this game goes over budget it comes out of their pocket.. not a publisher who has much larger cushions. Funny that you should mention InXile since Wasteland 2 apparently has a much bigger budget than this game: I believe they said its budget doubled from the initial 3 million they raised on Kickstarter, and unlike PoE, it didn't have a focus on pretty graphics. That only solidifies my opinion that Obsidian have budgeted everything correctly and the final game will be fine. Wasteland 2 was in open beta with a public bug tracker for about a year.. has a much smaller team and purchased a lot of their assets.. I wasn't saying that Obsidian was wasting money.. I said they are a large company who can't afford to go over budget.. Are you able to read or only spout your own opinions. I understand your inner fanboyism is raging like a thousand hurricanes.. So you are interpreting meaning in my words where none is there. Try to come back to reality for a second and we can talk it out buddy.

Up to here, I can where these opinions come from, even agree with some of it. But that: Any inside information about the company's assets / liabilities you care to share with us and are any of our business? Feargus has said in interviews that their overhead per month is roughly 1 million dollars.. This is I believe their whole company and not specifically the PoE team which only has a fraction of the developers on it.. But they have much higher overhead then say InXile.. Every day this game goes over budget it comes out of their pocket.. not a publisher who has much larger cushions. I'm not saying Obsidian wastes money.. They are a large company.. not a indie team. They can't afford to dev this game for the next 2 years to make it pefect like most indie devs from kickstarter can. You sound like someone who doesn't really understand how game design works from a practical standpoint. For example, attributes in RPG's are not really core systems, they're essentially number modifiers, they can be tweaked or even completely altered just fine even close to release. In fact, that's the whole purpose of the beta: to get feedback on such things. Yes.. you sound like an expert on game design.. Please share with me the list of titles you have shipped. If they are changing what the attributes do.. I don't mean tuning numbers for balance.. literally saying attributes now do something completely different or act as a variable for these systems as opposed to those systems.. 2 months before release.. There is trouble afoot.. If you disagree then we will agree to disagree.. but don't judge me from the angle that your an expert on anything.

Remember.. This Forum is 90% Pandering Fanboys.. Anything critical of Obsidian.. no matter how factual it may be.. or even if it's not factual but just your opinion.. You are called a retard, moron, **** poster and worse. The dogs have been released.. How dare someone be critical of PoE.. Especially if that person invested.. what.. 300? 500? dollars.. More then anyone else in this thread. Do you actually think he is **** posting? The game is a mess.. Entire systems are being changed 2 months before release.. We still don't actually know what the attributes will do before launch.. Beta means the game is done and they are testing for bugs., If you can't save your game or use core systems of the game.. It's Alpha.. that's all he's saying. The reason it MUST be released this year.. is because honestly.. Obsidian just has crazy overhead for everything they do.. They burn through cash like a flame thrower and if this game dev goes any longer.. they are gonna be operating out of pocket.. Maybe if Josh just made a damn IE game.. we wouldn't be in this situation. The PoE expansion pack is gonna be 10 minutes long at this rate.