Factions in Project Eternity

[IcyDeadPeople]

Tim and Josh have briefly commented on the various races and cultures in the game world, and provided an intriguing map with lots of settlements, towns and regions.

 

"We are creating a range that encompasses the recognisable (e.g. humans, elves, dwarves), the out-of-the-ordinary (e.g. the so-called 'godlike') and the truly odd (?!)," Josh Sawyer detailed. "Races and sub-races differ from each other culturally, but the races also have different physiological factors that can contribute to friction and confusion between them."

 

Cain told me Obsidian plans to have unique traits for races "so that playing an elf doesn't feel like playing a human, even if they are both the same class".

 

Sawyer continued: "Within even the recognisable races (including humans), we are creating a variety of ethnic subtypes and nationalities. This world's races did not all spring forth from the same place, and millennia of independent development have resulted in distinctive and unconnected groups. For example, the dwarf ranger [concept art - posted in this article] is originally from a southern boreal region that is quite different from the temperate homes of her distant kin to the north.

 

"Additionally, Project Eternity's world contains some isolated races and ethnicities, but transoceanic exploration and cultural cohabitation have heavily mixed many racial and ethnic groups over time. This mixing is not always... peaceful. At times it has degenerated into genocide and long-standing prejudices are ingrained in many cultures."

 

Sounds like it's shaping up to be a rich and fascinating gameworld with diverse cultural and ethnic groups.

 

What are your thoughts on how the various factions might be handled? Are you hoping for factions the player can choose to join and rise through the ranks over the course of a deep questline? Do you want to see a range of factions that complement various playing styles such as stealth, magic, melee, etc.?

 

How about factions that are at war with one another, perhaps to the extent that if you ally with a particular group, you might become the mortal enemy of another, permanently locked off from joining the second group and completing their quests?

 

Perhaps based on your character background choices, it might be impossible to join certain factions, or maybe your follower becomes angry and leaves your service if you join a faction she hates?

 

How do you think the geography revealed in the map might influence the various factions and ethnic groups? There appear to be at least three or four very large central regions, perhaps these represent kingdoms in conflict with one another or in some sort of uneasy truce?

 

 

 

Regions depicted in the map:

• Free Palatinate of Dyrwood
  
• White March (name is cut off, looks like "White March")
  
• Ruins of Eir Glanfath
  
• The Pearl Coast
  
• Boreal Region (name is cut off from the map, it seems the first word ends with an "E" and second word starts with "V")
  
• Pearlwood Gulf
  
• Bay of Crowns
  
• Bael Marsh
  
• Thein Bog
  
• Lake of Drow Tombs
  
• Northern Coast Region (name ends with "DRA" - perhaps some sort of tundra region?)
  

Towns, settlements and keeps (ruins?):

• New Heomar
  
• Echo Bay
  
• New Yarma
  
• Godhammer Citadel
  
• Mercy Vale
  
• Geiran's Grasp
  
• Coldmorn
  
• Dawning
  
• Durgan's Battery
  
• Stalwart
  
• ____el's Gate Citadel (first word is cut off)
  
• Gilded Vale
  
• Raedric's Hold
  
• Loghome
  
• Eina's Rest
  
• Kindle Vale
  
• Arrey of the Cloven Wheel
  
• The Court of Bowing Ashes
  
• Isrul's Well
  
• Maiden Falls
  
• Defiance Bay
  
• Sorceror's Tomb
  
• Dyrford
  
• Twin Elms
  
• Solace Vale
  
• Midwood
  
• Telaneir
  
• Brass Crown Tower
  
• Forked Vale
  
• Madsdam
  
• Steel Crown Tower
  
• Girrar
  
• Dunlan's Keep
  
• Hill's Edge
  
• Thein
  
• Airana's ____ (second word is cut off)
  

Edited September 19, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[Nivenus]

The poll seems a bit odd to me.

 

None (or at least very few) of the answers for the first question are mutually exclusive and the second question makes unjustified assumptions about the game world (we don't know, for instance, that any of those names corresponds to a faction).

 

I'm interested in a discussion about how factions would work in "Project Eternity" but the poll seems an odd way of going about and promoting such a dialogue.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Does anyone remember the cleric alignments in Icewind Dale? I'd love to see something like that but faction based

[Jarmo]

One thing about factions I've always disliked is the Magical Knowledge of Things everybody in the faction possesses.

 

I meet a group of Dwarves from Hippy HIlls somewhere in the woods, there's an argument and I end up killing them. Leaving no survivors or witnesses.

I race a very fast horse to the nearest village, only to be greeted by "oh, the butcherer, we don't serve your kind here".

 

Or in the chambers of the head priest, I promise to help the Paladins of Pure Skins, and suddenly everybody everywhere knows that.

There goes the infiltration plan when everybody is all "you're a bit too.... radiant for my tastes".

[IcyDeadPeople]

The poll seems a bit odd to me.

 

None (or at least very few) of the answers for the first question are mutually exclusive and the second question makes unjustified assumptions about the game world (we don't know, for instance, that any of those names corresponds to a faction).

 

I'm interested in a discussion about how factions would work in "Project Eternity" but the poll seems an odd way of going about and promoting such a dialogue.

 

In that case, what are you personally hoping to see in terms of factions and how the player will interact with them? I'm interested to know your thoughts and apologies if you found the poll options to be distracting from the discussion.

 

I understand the poll options are not mutually exclusive. In fact, personally, I would love to see all of these features implemented if possible - joinable factions integrated in to the main story, with deep questlines and in some sort of conflict with one another, follower and NPC reactions to player faction choices, etc. I suppose the idea of the poll was simply to ask which of these particular features do you find most important. Are there some faction mechanics or other features you'd like to see in the game I should add to this?

 

As for the regions on the map, yes, it's premature of course, we have no idea what the various factions will look like. Judging by the font size however, there do appear to be about three or four very important regions, that might represent political boundaries or some sort of kingdoms. And we know that the dwarf ranger in the concept art pic hails from the Southern Boreal region, where there is a faction of dwarves that is quite different from their cousins in the North. I will also attempt to keep this post updated as details are revealed about the various factions.

Edited September 19, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[Nivenus]

The poll seems a bit odd to me.

 

None (or at least very few) of the answers for the first question are mutually exclusive and the second question makes unjustified assumptions about the game world (we don't know, for instance, that any of those names corresponds to a faction).

 

I'm interested in a discussion about how factions would work in "Project Eternity" but the poll seems an odd way of going about and promoting such a dialogue.

 

In that case, what are you personally hoping to see in terms of factions and how the player will interact with them? I'm interested to know your thoughts and apologies if you found the poll options to be distracting from the discussion.

 

Well, to start with I like the idea of having opposing factions like in Fallout: New Vegas (though it need not be so dualistic as the Legion/NCR conflict was) and the idea that you can really only gain favor with one if you oppose the other. It would also be nice to be able to join factions and rise through their ranks (though I'm of a mind that there should be prerequisites and limits to how far you can rise - beggar to master of three separate guilds seems absurd on the face of it). And I'd love it if companions had opinions about the factions, down to encouraging or opposing player participation in one of the factions (I'd even welcome the idea that they might leave the party if sufficiently upset).

 

Class-oriented guilds are something I'm okay with, though I feel they should be more profession-oriented and act more like real-life trading unions, with an emphasis on protecting the interests of that specific group rather than generic fighting, thieving, or spellcasting. Thieves' guilds in particular, as usually rendered in RPGs, seem terribly purposeless in my mind - what exactly do they do other than to highlight the fact that, yes, a rogue/thief class exists? Generally a guild requires some kind of sanction from the powers that be and I can't see any government allowing the formation of a guild that specifically promotes the "profession" of thievery. If you want something vaguely analogous to a thieves' guild your best bet is some kind of criminal syndicate, which has far different implications.

 

I understand the poll options are not mutually exclusive. In fact, personally, I would love to see all of these features implemented if possible - joinable factions integrated in to the main story, with deep questlines and in some sort of conflict with one another, follower and NPC reactions to player faction choices, etc. I suppose the idea of the poll was simply to ask which of these particular features do you find most important. Are there some faction mechanics or other features you'd like to see in the game I should add to this?

 

Fair enough. I assume the factions will be integrated into the storyline and world-building, so I'll skip that option (which would otherwise be my top choice). I'll go with "factions that are in conflict with one another."

 

As for the regions on the map, yes, it's premature of course, we have no idea what the various factions will look like. Judging by the font size however, there do appear to be about three or four very important regions, that might represent political boundaries or some sort of kingdoms. And we know that the dwarf ranger in the concept art pic hails from the Southern Boreal region, where there is a faction of dwarves that is quite different from their cousins in the North. I will also attempt to keep this post updated as details are revealed about the various factions.

 

Looking at the map again there definitely do seem to be "major" regions and "lesser" regions, although I wouldn't say those necessarily correspond to factions. The Free Palatinate of Dyrwood is the only that particularly strikes me as definitely a faction name and not just a region, but the Ruins of Eir Glanfiath and White March seem much more likely to simply be toponyms.

 

In any case, I suppose the name "Free Palatinate" does actually imply the existence of another faction... namely an empire of some kind, since the name comes from the term "county palatine" which referred to semi-autonomous areas within kingdoms and empires of pre-modern Europe.

[incubus9]

I think with factions, the most important factor will be the integration into the story line. Joining a faction needs to impact the overall story arc. I don't think one specific faction needs to be the "good" faction or the "evil" faction. Every side needs their motivations and goals as they conflict with each other. I think there should be a good deal of moral ambiguity as you select your factions.

[Gurkog]

The more reactivity in every aspect of the game, the better. Choices and consequences are the most important part of any game.

[IcyDeadPeople]

Well, to start with I like the idea of having opposing factions like in Fallout: New Vegas (though it need not be so dualistic as the Legion/NCR conflict was) and the idea that you can really only gain favor with one if you oppose the other. It would also be nice to be able to join factions and rise through their ranks (though I'm of a mind that there should be prerequisites and limits to how far you can rise - beggar to master of three separate guilds seems absurd on the face of it). And I'd love it if companions had opinions about the factions, down to encouraging or opposing player participation in one of the factions (I'd even welcome the idea that they might leave the party if sufficiently upset).

 

Class-oriented guilds are something I'm okay with, though I feel they should be more profession-oriented and act more like real-life trading unions, with an emphasis on protecting the interests of that specific group rather than generic fighting, thieving, or spellcasting. Thieves' guilds in particular, as usually rendered in RPGs, seem terribly purposeless in my mind - what exactly do they do other than to highlight the fact that, yes, a rogue/thief class exists? Generally a guild requires some kind of sanction from the powers that be and I can't see any government allowing the formation of a guild that specifically promotes the "profession" of thievery. If you want something vaguely analogous to a thieves' guild your best bet is some kind of criminal syndicate, which has far different implications.

 

Thank you! I completely agree. The concept of generic Fighters', Thieves' and Mages' Guilds are a sort of pet peeve of mine. Many games use these tropes as shorthand for little more than employment offices with some uninspired quests vaguely related to the player's class. If I never see one of these generic "guilds" in a game again it will be too soon.

 

Even if the team were to include essentially the same tired employment office type guilds (which seems highly unlikely considering Obsidian's brilliant and compelling factions in past games), surely it can't be that hard to at least come up with an original name for the organization and some half plausible reason why they have banded together.

 

And any viable organization in a richly detailed world would likely have some friends and some enemies, no? If we can join some scholarly group of mages, for example, it would be great if we could choose to join an opposing mage faction - some necromancers or perhaps a coven of witches, etc. If there is a melee warrior oriented organization, let them stand for something other than simply "fighting" - perhaps they are a sect of holy warriors who fight to cleanse the land of creatures of the night, or perhaps they are a cruel gang of bandits and highwaymen, etc.

 

 

 

Looking at the map again there definitely do seem to be "major" regions and "lesser" regions, although I wouldn't say those necessarily correspond to factions. The Free Palatinate of Dyrwood is the only that particularly strikes me as definitely a faction name and not just a region, but the Ruins of Eir Glanfiath and White March seem much more likely to simply be toponyms.

 

In any case, I suppose the name "Free Palatinate" does actually imply the existence of another faction... namely an empire of some kind, since the name comes from the term "county palatine" which referred to semi-autonomous areas within kingdoms and empires of pre-modern Europe.

 

Interesting background on the term. I mistakenly thought it had something to do with paladins.

Edited September 19, 2012 by IcyDeadPeople

[IcyDeadPeople]

Does anyone remember the cleric alignments in Icewind Dale? I'd love to see something like that but faction based

 

Can you explain a bit more for those of us who haven't played the game?

 

Something along the lines of various groups of clerics that follow different deities?

[Oerwinde]

I'd like to see a good variety of factions. Some political that you can aid and influence but as a concept are too big to be joinable. Joinable factions would be things like thieves guilds, knightly orders, etc. Possibly tied to class, or your reputation with the political factions. These would be large and have more direct rewards for completing quests. Able to rise in the ranks, but I wouldn't allow the character to lead them. Then I'd like to see smaller factions. These could be village militias or small social clubs and such. These would be things that you could eventually lead, or get titles from, but are mostly roleplaying rewards rather than monetary and such. The smaller factions could also be used as building blocks for future games. Like perhaps you could start your own faction, that during PE is no more than a few members working out of a storefront or something, but when the sequel hits it has grown depending on what you did in the first game.

[Gurkog]

instead of lame TES style factions there should be competing criminal organizations, mercenary forces, townships, regional powerbrokers, some kingdoms, religious institutions, etc... none of them would be based on classes, but they may have more demand and opportunities for some.

[Oerwinde]

instead of lame TES style factions there should be competing criminal organizations, mercenary forces, townships, regional powerbrokers, some kingdoms, religious institutions, etc... none of them would be based on classes, but they may have more demand and opportunities for some.

 

Yeah, your role in the faction should be based on class rather than having factions based on class. For instance a criminal organization would have different missions for a thief than for a fighter.

[Entropious]

If there is one type of faction I believe would be particularly interesting, I would have to point out towards a "Lovecraftian" cult - a dark gathering worshipping not some "evil" gods, but completely abstract, alien entities whom the human mind cannot hope to complrehend; a gathering of the lost, hopeless and desperate, no longer driven by ambition or earthly desires, but by the insanity brought about with the forbidden knowledge they now possess.

 

As such, I believe the bogs would be an excellent location for such a cabal.

 

Also, utilising the old alignment system brought about by D&D, I would have to stress that such people would fit the "Chaotic Neutral" category, rather than any notion of evil.

 

Last but not least, I believe that such a faction should NOT be joinable, or at least several exteremely severe plot requirements would have to be made. After all, the stress would be put on the mysteriousness and otherworldness of such a society, the depravity born not out of spite or immorality, but total, utter amorality.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Entropious

[Wombat]

If there is one type of faction I believe would be particularly interesting, I would have to point out towards a "Lovecraftian" cult - a dark gathering worshipping not some "evil" gods, but completely abstract, alien entities whom the human mind cannot hope to complrehend; a gathering of the lost, hopeless and desperate, no longer driven by ambition or earthly desires, but by the insanity brought about with the forbidden knowledge they now possess.

 

As such, I believe the bogs would be an excellent location for such a cabal.

 

Also, utilising the old alignment system brought about by D&D, I would have to stress that such people would fit the "Chaotic Neutral" category, rather than any notion of evil.

 

Last but not least, I believe that such a faction should NOT be joinable, or at least several exteremely severe plot requirements would have to be made. After all, the stress would be put on the mysteriousness and otherworldness of such a society, the depravity born not out of spite or immorality, but total, utter amorality.

This reminds me of chaos cults in Rune Quest - they are totally odd and can be very dangerous. Although the rule set allowed to play any creature as characters, the setting made it impossible for the players to play their roles. There are other examples like Dragonewts, who are intellectual but their way of thinking is hard to be simulated by human-beings. They'd belong to "Huh" category in PE. They often make things even more complicated in the middle of various conflicting factions.

[novander]

I don't mind becoming enemies of one faction if I join another, I don't mind the racist factions banning my Godlike character outright, I'd quite like to be able to join one of the many thief-catering organised crime groups (and possibly take them down from the inside); that's all part of the game world. What I don't want is my companions leaving if I join the wrong group. Companions are a great link to the world, so when I turn up in New Heomar for the first time and everyone throws glass shards at my face, I want to know that I can turn to my trusty friend Dwarface McRangerzard and say "hey, what is going on here?"

[Entropious]

I was thinking more along the lines of worshippers of "The Sleeping One" in Gothic (their main source of income were narcotics) or, in general, cults present within the works of Lovevcraft. "Alien", "mystery" and "insanity" as the main motiffs, not so-called "grimdark".

Edited September 19, 2012 by Entropious

[Wombat]

I was thinking more along the lines of worshippers of "The Sleeping One" in Gothic (their main source of income were narcotics) or, in general, cults present within the works of Lovevcraft. "Alien", "mystery" and "insanity" as the main motiffs, not so-called "grimdark".

Chaos cults are kind of RNA to DNA in Gloranthan setting and, you can see heavy influence of Lovecraft there. Worshiping them would make you something totally alien, not need to mention it would make you stop being human - both mentally and physically. Even having contact with them is dangerous.

[Dianjabla]

Why all of them at once.

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Does anyone remember the cleric alignments in Icewind Dale? I'd love to see something like that but faction based

 

Can you explain a bit more for those of us who haven't played the game?

 

Something along the lines of various groups of clerics that follow different deities?

 

Yeah they had different gods that your cleric would select and if I remember correctly they would grant differently abilities. Some god's weren't available to certain alignments though.

[Lysen]

I don't care if it is generic, I want to join the thieves guild! Or some kind of equivalent. There was a thieves guild (!) even in Fallout 1.

[LordCrash]

For your information:

E.g. the bay area in the north is called "Boot of Ondra" like you can all see in the kickstarter video at about minute 1:00 when the camera flies over the map of PE.

[Sarog]

If a game has a factional emphasis but I can't outright join a faction, but rather remain like a free agent or hireling, I tend to feel disappointed. Making a factional emphasis but excluding a player from proper commitment to one faction or the other is rather like taking me to a steakhouse and only letting me order the salad. If there are going to be factions, let me get in there and join one as proper member and put my freelance associate days behind me.

[IcyDeadPeople]

One thing about factions I've always disliked is the Magical Knowledge of Things everybody in the faction possesses.

 

I meet a group of Dwarves from Hippy HIlls somewhere in the woods, there's an argument and I end up killing them. Leaving no survivors or witnesses.

I race a very fast horse to the nearest village, only to be greeted by "oh, the butcherer, we don't serve your kind here".

 

Or in the chambers of the head priest, I promise to help the Paladins of Pure Skins, and suddenly everybody everywhere knows that.

There goes the infiltration plan when everybody is all "you're a bit too.... radiant for my tastes".

I see, yes it presents some challenges to incorporate reactivity in a way that does not defy logic, but with limited resources would you not prefer at least some reactivity, even if there were some sort of psychic grapevine nature to their information gathering, or would you prefer no reactivity at all in such a case?

 

 

If there is one type of faction I believe would be particularly interesting, I would have to point out towards a "Lovecraftian" cult - a dark gathering worshipping not some "evil" gods, but completely abstract, alien entities whom the human mind cannot hope to complrehend; a gathering of the lost, hopeless and desperate, no longer driven by ambition or earthly desires, but by the insanity brought about with the forbidden knowledge they now possess.

 

As such, I believe the bogs would be an excellent location for such a cabal.

 

Also, utilising the old alignment system brought about by D&D, I would have to stress that such people would fit the "Chaotic Neutral" category, rather than any notion of evil.

 

Last but not least, I believe that such a faction should NOT be joinable, or at least several exteremely severe plot requirements would have to be made. After all, the stress would be put on the mysteriousness and otherworldness of such a society, the depravity born not out of spite or immorality, but total, utter amorality.

 

Great concept, this sounds like a lot of fun. I'd like to see a kind of faction like this. I can understand why there should be some extreme challenges or roadblocks to joining or advancing within such a group, but wouldn't a good quest line for such a faction serve to introduce the group to the player, from the perspective of an outsider becoming involved with such a faction and perhaps becoming some sort of initiate in the cult?

[Crosmando]

I generally don't like factions much in RPG's, mostly because they feel like they give too much "control" to the player over the world (given that you're a single person +5~ companions), and seem to cross into strategy game territory somewhat.