Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Games and culture/history/myth


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#41
Calax

Calax

    Former Superman

  • Members
  • 8226 posts
  • Location:The Fortress of Solitude
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Oh come on, my Crimson friend, you didn't kind of like the characters in New Vegas, you luuuuuuurved them! ...And I've seen the video footage to prove it! :D

Particularly a lotto winner.

#42
Cantousent

Cantousent

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4895 posts
  • Gold Backer
Everybody lurves the lotto winner, Super-Cal.

#43
LadyCrimson

LadyCrimson

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 7551 posts
  • Location:Candyland
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Oh come on, my Crimson friend, you didn't kind of like the characters in New Vegas, you luuuuuuurved them! ...And I've seen the video footage to prove it! :D

I knew someone would mention that. ;)

Notice I said "When a game does make me feel emotion, it's given to a party member." This is probably why story-based RPG's that don't involve party members very much (or none at all) don't stick with me that well. But KOTOR did (Atton/Disciple), and Baldur's Gate (Xan, sigh...hehe). Skyrim interested me initially because it was going to have companions. But I didn't end up liking them and the game as a whole didn't capture my attention much either, so it was a wash.

For games like Diablo, I don't care about companions that much. They're not designed to even try to be emotionally riveting, just run and bash and loot. Altho it was fun to equip those D2 hirelings and try to keep them alive. ;)

Outside of character/story, music is what most evokes emotion for me. Those awesome battles in Stronghold or other strategy games wouldn't be nearly as much fun without the great soundtracks to go with them. (edit - the main thing I like from games is exploration and tinkering, ie collecting loot, alchemy, crafts, strategy. It's a task-obsessive thing, not an emotional one)

Edited by LadyCrimson, 03 April 2012 - 05:45 PM.


#44
Tigranes

Tigranes

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 8772 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia, USA
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I can see how it's different if you're already 'set in your ways' culturally - though as you admit, LC, I'd wager your affections for Boone is an interesting window into how we can latch on to the most unlikely things. I think that's the greatest strength of games providing a coherent world with rules that you can play in (and break). Just the fact that, although it's not 'historically accurate' or anything like that, you have a world that obeys its own rules, and the sum of its parts is more powerful (and thus fun).

Sometimes I wonder, the people that download nude mods which invariably top the popularity list for Elder Scrolls games and the like - is it for titillation? I mean, you can get a lot better pornography than that just using Google, right? And it's not like they add any adult functionality in the gameworld. An idle speculation I have is that it becomes more exciting just because it's a coherent gameworld - not that it's mistaken for the real world, but just that aliveness. Or, people are weird, I guess.

#45
Calax

Calax

    Former Superman

  • Members
  • 8226 posts
  • Location:The Fortress of Solitude
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I think part of the issue with nudes Tig's is immersion. I know that in the two Elder Scrolls games, and the Fallouts I've played, it's kind of... jarring to me to "strip" somebody (with visible effect of having their clothes removed) but they still have their "unmentionables" hidden... particularly when the locations/settings don't lend themselves to the concept of a "bra" as existing/being available. Admittedly I don't want to see some guys junk, it just doesn't make sense to me that the woman would have anything covering her chest. Although I'd never get the mods that'd have always nude. I do admit I'd probably put one in for Dragon Age if I could find one that wasn't "your characters will look like they're wearing a dominatrix outfit AT ALL TIMES!

Or, conversely, it's just in a spot that flat out makes sense and has (in other markets) been entirely decensored (Indigo Prophecy and Witcher 1).

#46
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2960 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow
I think that immersion for this case its a facade, there is some shame in admitting to something sexual specially when it involves only yourself. Aside from nude mods; which peak the popularity because they are the basis for a lot of other sex related mods, there are very revealing armor sets based on said models and mods which depict sexual acts.

At its core, the gaming experience provided by free roam games like TES and FO its a world free of consequences where you can exert your will. A very appealing thought considering that games are a vicarious experience and this models plays into that. Which belies the main reason that we seek to exert our will as a species, which often involves survival which is intertwined with reproduction. Basically, we are wired to correlate survival and power with sex.

Disclaimer: Of course i'm sure that some people might do it for the immersion. You know, a cigar is a cigar but it's more fun to tell people that's a **** on their mouths.

#47
Calax

Calax

    Former Superman

  • Members
  • 8226 posts
  • Location:The Fortress of Solitude
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Honestly, Carla Valenti taking a shower in her underwear is kind of jarring to me. I know it's stupid but f- it I'm gonna do things how I think they should be done were the situation "realistic" (reality altering mayan dead people not withstanding)

#48
Nepenthe

Nepenthe

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4641 posts
  • Location:Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer


Do games play any role in your exposure to or thoughts about different cultures, history, myth, religion and ritual?

No.

I think we have a potential country/education system pattern here. ;)

#49
LadyCrimson

LadyCrimson

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 7551 posts
  • Location:Candyland
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
The one time I tried a nudity mod, I ROFL and then deleted it soon after. Outside of the giggles, not for me. But I know a lot of people who love nudity/sex mods if they can get them...I couldn't explain why they want them so much, since I'm not into them. But from what I've noted, immersion definitely plays a role, I think. It's not much different from people wanting better textures for roads, eyes, objects - doesn't add to the gameplay, but it does wonders for eyeball immersion. Perhaps for some it's just curious/humorous titillation/outlet, and for others a more serious part of their game...a roleplaying thing, if you will.

In terms of vs. porn - I could see that some might perhaps find acting out sex in games more interesting (interactive, an environment you control/may care about) over watching the usual static porn (non-interactive).

#50
Rosbjerg

Rosbjerg

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 4030 posts
  • Location:The State, in which something is rotten
I've used nude mods for all of Bethesda's games, it just feels more true in a sense for me that characters can be naked. I couldn't explain why my character having the ability to be naked is important, it just is - mostly I think because here in Denmark nudity is everywhere and the modesty in foreign games and films seems so artificial to me.

#51
Humanoid

Humanoid

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2751 posts

Sometimes I wonder, the people that download nude mods which invariably top the popularity list for Elder Scrolls games and the like - is it for titillation? I mean, you can get a lot better pornography than that just using Google, right? And it's not like they add any adult functionality in the gameworld. An idle speculation I have is that it becomes more exciting just because it's a coherent gameworld - not that it's mistaken for the real world, but just that aliveness. Or, people are weird, I guess.


You see, Gamebryo has so many issues with alt-tabbing out of the game causing hangs/crashes/general-bugging-out, therefore making this type of content comparatively much more valuable for its convenience than for competitors with more stable engines. :p

#52
Tigranes

Tigranes

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 8772 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia, USA
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Fair enough, I should be careful not to lump everyone in the same box. I can accept that for some people, nudity mods play a role in making the gameworld more coherent, while for most gamers, they probably bracket that part of 'unrealism' out to begin with. Then of course it's rather different with mods with sexual content or, I don't know, Thong Armour. And then, of course, there will always be people in denial, but that's something you wouldn't want to accuse anyone of, since it's impossible to tell.

I always thought the child-killing stuff in the Fallout franchise was actually similar. I never had any problem because I never saw a child I wanted to kill, or, more importantly, a child it would make sense for me to kill or to die in the crossfire in the context of a quest or story arc. That is, until Little Lamplight or whatever the name was in FO3, where the survival of children itself becomes a key story mechanic, and some children actively try to annoy you and do bad things.

I do think it's all related to the history/culture/ritual business. Most gamers don't require a fantasy game that borrows from an Aztec ritual to be 'historically accurate', but fit into the laws of the gameworld and the range of plausibility in our own world. If something fits well enough into both, then it can be a powerful storytelling device because we recognise the tropes from 'real life', but also fits seamlessly into the gameworld.

#53
Calax

Calax

    Former Superman

  • Members
  • 8226 posts
  • Location:The Fortress of Solitude
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I think that the laws of the game world being consistent with the expectation with the viewer. Using fallout 3 as an example again, the hooker you meet in megaton made a lot of people annoyed because you pay her for a 'service' and she just lays down beside you... In a franchise known for being more graphic. And in the game itself it seems like most of the women you meet are prostitutes or at least a nOn-exclusive woman taking care of an entire group of men(one of the vampires in f3)

As to your "child killing" thing, most games would remove the option by removing or limiting the location of children to non-combat locations. Partly because they would be throttled in the media because its considered amoral to consider anyone under 18 in a more adult light.
That social taboo is also why you find things like xenogears being... Liberally translated (at least three translators quit because of the content) so that it is more acceptable in the markets. Although you are seeing this less and less as the culture around anime keeps widening the hole through which series flow into the other nations with more faithful translations.

Well unless you are 4kids entertainment where you turn guns into walkie talkies, rice balls into apples, and booze into applejuice... While thourghly sanatizing any content that might be more violent or mature.

#54
Cantousent

Cantousent

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4895 posts
  • Gold Backer
I don't really care about nudity in games, although I can see the point about the hooker in the bed. (Why not just fade to black and leave it entirely to the imagination?) Folks don't take showers in their bathing suits unless it's a public shower and they're ashamed of their bods. Not much of an issue for me, but I can see why someone might take issue.

I think StarWars' point about small things drawing more out of the player than the big dramatic moments the devs usually use to force emotions. From the very same scenario in PS:T, about which my feeling are entirely identical, to the two skeletons hugging each other in FO3, I think the less in your face moments have evoke much more feeling on my part. ...And it's not all touchy feely either. Of all my companions in video games, the one about whose death I would be most enraged was always my dog in FO.

There's also the other side of helping to form your world view by persuasion. You can also sway world view by disagreement. Hasn't anyone here seen an idea expressed in a video game and had nothing but contempt for it? Pushback against ideas help solidify our own, after all, and that's just as important changing someone's mind.

#55
LadyCrimson

LadyCrimson

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 7551 posts
  • Location:Candyland
  • Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

though as you admit, LC, I'd wager your affections for Boone is an interesting window into how we can latch on to the most unlikely things.

I was thinking more about this, and at the risk of over-analyzing myself (heh) I'd say/agree that it's not game format itself per se that won't involve me emotionally. It's just that most games - that I've personally played - do not have the themes or enough of an uninterrupted storytelling flow to latch onto very strongly. There's also the issue that being chronic-depressive all my life I tend to use games as a way to escape from emotion (outside of laughter - I like to laugh), so I focus on the task/humor stuff and may miss the emotional forest for the trees because I don't look for it/want it...eg takes a lot to get past that to make me notice. How's that? hehe ;)

Child-killing or other "no-nos" in games...don't care one way or another, generally speaking. I'm not going to clamor for its inclusion because it doesn't specifically interest me, and if the given scenario offended/repelled me, I wouldn't want to play that game, but I have no issue with a game existing that has it. I don't like censorship on principle, so as long it seems "natural" to the plot/environment/world presented, it won't offend me just because it's there.

Also, addition re: nudity: The reason I don't find it entertaining or more immersive is because most of the time such mods are, imo, rather poorly done. At least for the males. Most of the focus of such mods goes towards the females, with lots of energy spent on making their boobs look hi-res fantasy awesome or whatever, but not so much for the males. So instead of immersion I'm jarringly amused at these poorly rendered/textured naked men wandering around. :lol: They just look better/less artificial with their clothes still on, so far.

#56
Starwars

Starwars

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2392 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
I think the whole child-killing business bothers me mostly because I think I'm somewhat of a continuity nut when it comes to the "inner rules" of a game. It bothers me that I could kill off everyone in the game world, but the children are immortal. And it bothers me anymore that there is a notion that child-killing is absolutely wrong, but blowing away innocent people is alright as long as they are adult.

But I don't think it's even that much about the children in particular, I could count the times I've killed children in the old Fallouts on one hand I think (and that's during the course of a *lot* of replays during the years) it bothered me a lot in Fallout 3 as well that there were certain characters who were unkillable for no reason at all (well, that Bethesda couldn't design the game in a way that allowed for their death of course, but I mean in the context of the game world itself). This is in a game that is supposed to be pretty much about ultimate player freedom. It bothered me a lot in Skyrim also.

It does not bother me in well... I dunno, Mass Effect for example because the rules for the game are clear. You can't attack anyone you wish in this game.That's fine. I have no problem with that. But if a game allows me to attack anyone I wish, then clearly I would expect for those NPCs to be able to die also.

#57
Gorth

Gorth

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 9821 posts
  • Location:Germany

I think the whole child-killing business bothers me mostly because I think I'm somewhat of a continuity nut when it comes to the "inner rules" of a game. It bothers me that I could kill off everyone in the game world, but the children are immortal. And it bothers me anymore that there is a notion that child-killing is absolutely wrong, but blowing away innocent people is alright as long as they are adult.


Yeah, Tigs already brought up Little Lamplight. The location that killed Fallout 3 for me and caused it to get uninstalled. When not even the Fatman can kill the little brats and remove that obstacle on my path of progress, I lost interest in the game. There is silly in a fun way and there is insulting the player in a non-fun way.

My first (and only) nudie mod was "nude patch" for the original Tombraider. Turned all 15 pixels of her butt into something remotely looking like skin colour :rolleyes:

Mind you, there wasn't really much internet available to the public at the time and mod scenes were usually limited to usenet and bbs boards.

#58
Cantousent

Cantousent

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4895 posts
  • Gold Backer
I'm with LC on this one. It's a question of censhorship. I don't figure I'd want to kill children in games, but I resent the hell out of the fact that we can't by reason of censorship. I don't think it does any good, either. As it seems to me, some kids are going to be abused by some adults whether game allow for the depiction of abuse or not. There has to be a damned compelling reason for censorship before we impose it as a society.

I don't think it's important that you get emotional at video games, either, LC. The point of video games is to enjoy them in whatever manner you like. That's the same reason I don't care one way or the other about folks 'cheating' in a single player game.

As to you, Gorth, remember doom? It had some pretty good mods way before Tombraider. I guess folks just didn't care to see a naked imp nearly as much as the hot chic from the 'raider series. That's conjecture on my part. I've never played one of the games.

#59
Calax

Calax

    Former Superman

  • Members
  • 8226 posts
  • Location:The Fortress of Solitude
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

As to you, Gorth, remember doom? It had some pretty good mods way before Tombraider. I guess folks just didn't care to see a naked imp nearly as much as the hot chic from the 'raider series. That's conjecture on my part. I've never played one of the games.

Why do I get the feeling somebody might have gone in and re-coded a beholder as a giant floating phallus just for kicks? >.<

That said, one of the more interesting things to note is from the opposite end of things. Instead of Japanese/Euro culture infiltrating america as the focus, why not look at america infiltrating Japan? They have an entire subculture based around amping up what they see as "American" culture (nicknamed Yankeii).

#60
greylord

greylord

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1053 posts
I really have no interest in nude mods. I imagine the mother of them all early on wasn't Doom though, it was Duke Nukem. I think i actually heard articles about that one long ago.

I think including gratuitious sex or violence in games really doesn't add much normally. In fact sometimes it makes them laughably silly (like DA2 where you hit them in the arm and they explode in a flashbang of blood...or at least some sort of red liquid).




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users