Eder Tangent

[PatrioticChief]

I stated before the game release that I had no issue with not being able to romance Eder. The idea of a platonic broseph, a la Garrus, seemed splendid. However given numerous narrative decisions in the game, I can't help but be disappointed by the writing. If you want to make the most popular fan character from the previous game a purely platonic relationship here are the things you should do and not do. 

 

1) Do not make his companion quest about chasing down a chick he enjoyed banging a decade ago. 

 

Do not mistake me. Eder having an opportunity to save a a young boy from a cult is good writing material. The jokes about him being a baby daddy were funny. But the instigation for this quest is Eder wanting to find a chick he had fun screwing back in the day. Doesn't seem like the type of man who would be uninterested in a romance with a potentially attractive woman he has already formed a deep personal bond with. 

 

2) Do not kill off this decade old love interest if you plan on using her as a prop to justify Eder not being romanceable 

 

Oh no this woman I banged ten years ago who got married and had some other mans kid died. I cannot possibly pursue a romance with my close and attractive friend!

 

3) Do not make him worldly with a light heart 

 

Yes, this easy going jester who enjoys bawdy behavior and sex has no interest in pursuing a romantic relationship? Again, it just stretched credulity barring a compelling counterpoint. 

 

4) Do not make every other companion, except the games most standoffish character written by an author who has a hateon for romance, romanceable by both genders 

 

It just seems contrived. Every other character is romanceable regardless of race or gender but Eder? If you are going to carve out that exception, create a compelling reason for it. 

 

 

5) Write a compelling reason why he would not be attracted to the Watcher 

 

 

He only likes men. He only likes women. He only likes Orlans (the freak). Cynical Eder rejecting Xoti advances makes perfect sense. She is a borderline zealot and he's angry and suspicious of the gods. But a Watcher he has a maxed out relationship with? Not so much.

 

6) Write a compelling reason why he would reject The Watcher even if he attracted to her

 

Our quest is too dangerous and I can't allow myself to love you. I already lost my brother I can't get hurt like that again. I am already in love with someone else, a la Vivienne,  therefore I won't allow you to pursue me. I honestly find the first reason fairly weak. After all, he starts the game devoted to you and can grow on top of that existing foundation. Losing you would already suck pretty bad for him and the Watcher could easily point that out. Still, it would be a better justification than the game gives. 

 

Given Eder's quest, quest outcome, and the disposition of the character, the writers really should have crafted a more compelling rationale for why you can't romance him or they should have just included it for the fans that wanted it. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Voss]

A la Garrus?
So... A romance option, then.

But yeah, I think you've nailed this down pretty well. A reasonably stated premise for why trumps 'well, he just isn't,' with a shrug.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Voss

[E.RedMark]

 

 

He only likes Orlans (the freak)

  gonna make voodoo doll of you now ! watch as mah curse hit you! 

[Starwars]

I must say, it's extremely weird to me look at characters and say that there should be a reason for them *not* being romanceable. 

[PatrioticChief]

I must say, it's extremely weird to me look at characters and say that there should be a reason for them *not* being romanceable. 

 

We just have different philosophies for RPG's. I think RPG's are best when they maximize freedom. Is it moronic as hell to defy Eothas and let him obliterate you? Sure. But damnit that is my right as a role player! 

 

Likewise if there is no compelling narrative reason for a character to not be romanceable, and in fact several narrative reasons why he should be, why is the player being limited? 

 

To me there is no difference between the choice of defying the gods and romancing a character. It's simply an option for the player and if you are going to eliminate options there should be a decent narrative reason for it or it should be an opportunity cost relative to another part of the game. In this case the game actually provides numerous narrative reasons for it to make sense so it's doubly jarring from a writing perspective. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Ryz009]

Hell they could've even said he saw the Watcher as a standin for his brother and would only see them in a sibling like way. That'd at least been a sensible friendzone.

 

I don't mind him friendzoning the Watcher. But they went with the worst reasoning.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ryz009

[PatrioticChief]

Hell they could've even said he saw the Watcher as a standin for his brother and would only see them in a sibling like way. That'd at least been a sensible friendzone.

 

I don't mind him friendzoning the Watcher. But they went with the worst reasoning.

 

I concur. 

[Galagraphia]

I agree. I personally find it odd that Edér is more attached to a woman he last saw about 2 decades ago (especially since the short story makes it look like that has already been dealt with) and to her kid, than to his real friends, who he has strong bound with and clearly cares about very much. Elafa didn't seem that special to him from the short story (though I think she was cool). She left, told him to move on, and he was like "Yeah, whatever, church time!" His claim that he hasn't had any romantic relationships for ages kind of contradicts what he says in the first game, about ladies he courted, some milkmaid, the Pallid Knight even? Even his interest in Iselmyr. I understand he was joking a lot about his personal life, but he never seemed like a one true dead love kind of guy to me. But if he's into dead ladies, the Watcher should be exactly his type I'm still hoping he'll sort out his issues in some DLC, but it wouldn't undo his quest, which is really disappointing already.

[Slotharingia]

I have to admit I'm dismayed he's not romanceable. I had no intention of romancing him personally as I play male characters (and he seems hetero to me), but I'm suprised they made him like that as he's the obvious choice in the Alistair/Cullen league from DA. I could even see fans of those types of romances buying the game just for that. *shrug*

[biscuitsntea]

Okay, if this short story actually seems to have concluded this whole thing with Elafa pretty neatly with her telling him to move on etc. then his personal quest makes even less sense. 

I've now played through the whole quest, and maaan it's just... awkward and forced. Like it made me cringe a little when we get told that Elafa actually died and how the boy wasn't Eder's son at all and hey crazy cult gets thrown into the mix! It just felt uninspired, contrived and like I said, awkward. And when Eder's like "oh yeah I'm a good person I petted so many animals", like seriously? That felt like a bad Flanderization-moment. I get that Eder has a soft spot for animals, and he's more of a "simple farmer" - guy, but c'mon, that line sounded like it came straight out of a bad fanfic. 

 

So yeah... not getting this questline and the way Eder was handled at all. And to top it off it is all a very weak excuse for him not being romancable. 

[marimo]

I could be way off base but I interpreted Eder's quest as not really being about Elafa and Beorn at all, but more about Eder having a little crisis about the direction of his life. I think he was kinda coasting along on his adventures, thinking that he'd get around to settling down "one day" like he always thought he would, and then was blindsided by the possibility of having a son, and was surprised by the strength of his own feelings about the idea. But then he very quickly discovered that Elafa is dead and Beorn is already grown and it sort of slams the door shut on this possibility that had existed in the back of his mind for a long time, and again the way he feels about it probably surprises him. I don't think Elafa was a one true love kinda deal, I think Eder is in shock and in mourning over the death of a dream. Kind of a midlife crisis I suppose, but the reverse of the one you see more often, which is someone bored with their life who wants excitement. 

 

Anyway that type of feeling came off as very natural to me. I'd have liked to see Eder as a romance option but I didn't mind his quest. If it was the case that his writer just didn't want to write a romance then I think that's a valid reason, even though it's disappointing. 

[omegazen]

We just have different philosophies for RPG's. I think RPG's are best when they maximize freedom

 

Likewise if there is no compelling narrative reason for a character to not be romanceable, and in fact several narrative reasons why he should be, why is the player being limited? 

 

To me there is no difference between the choice of defying the gods and romancing a character. It's simply an option for the player and if you are going to eliminate options there should be a decent narrative reason for it ..

 

There is practically all the freedom you could want. There does not have to be any narrative reason at all. If the character doesn't want to tell you the reason, that's their choice. Do best friends have to give a reason to not hook up? no..Even if Romance options weren't in the game at all I don't think many would pay it any attention, because there's 100hrs+ of other content, while romance does nothing and is ~1% of the game content.

 

The reason the romance here isn't so "well written" or "free" is simply because most people are not going to care about that in an RPG where the focus is several other things entirely that are on a much larger scale. This is not a romance novel, it's an RPG with gods, magic, pirates, and whatever.. they really don't have a reason to waste time and focus on such a minor aspect of the game that most people would find cringy unless written casually anyway.

 

People always find something minor to whine about though lol

Edited May 17, 2018 by omegazen

[Verde]

They messed up Eder plain and simple. Besides the very first line when you ask him "Who are you?" He is just distant and sullen. I mean we killed an fn Adra Dragon at the bottom of a 15 floor dungeon for Gods sake. We lived in a castle. And you can barely mutter a few words except of your displeasure for Xioti and me stealing something (ha). Surprised they dropped the ball because the writing for others esp Aloth is better. And Shark dude may be one of my fav companions ever.

[Lexi]

He only likes Orlans (the freak).

 

Hey, the man loves animals. A lot.

[PatrioticChief]

 

 

We just have different philosophies for RPG's. I think RPG's are best when they maximize freedom

 

Likewise if there is no compelling narrative reason for a character to not be romanceable, and in fact several narrative reasons why he should be, why is the player being limited? 

 

To me there is no difference between the choice of defying the gods and romancing a character. It's simply an option for the player and if you are going to eliminate options there should be a decent narrative reason for it ..

 

There is practically all the freedom you could want. There does not have to be any narrative reason at all. If the character doesn't want to tell you the reason, that's their choice. Do best friends have to give a reason to not hook up? no..Even if Romance options weren't in the game at all I don't think many would pay it any attention, because there's 100hrs+ of other content, while romance does nothing and is ~1% of the game content.

 

The reason the romance here isn't so "well written" or "free" is simply because most people are not going to care about that in an RPG where the focus is several other things entirely that are on a much larger scale. This is not a romance novel, it's an RPG with gods, magic, pirates, and whatever.. they really don't have a reason to waste time and focus on such a minor aspect of the game that most people would find cringy unless written casually anyway.

 

People always find something minor to whine about though lol

 

 

I don't think you addressed my argument at all. *shrug* 

 

Not to mention several of your claims are easily contradicted. 

 

his is not a romance novel, it's an RPG with gods, magic, pirates, and whatever.. they really don't have a reason to waste time and focus on such a minor aspect 

 

 

The writers clearly disagree because they included romance for 5/7 companions. 

 

I loved PoE and there was no romance. My issue is deciding to include it for the vast majority of characters but not provide a narrative reason to restrict it for Eder, a fan favorite. The issue is compounded by there being plenty of narrative reasons that the relationship would make sense. By all means if Obsidian wants to shut the door on romance, that is their prerogative. But if you open that door, then you might as well do it well. I don't think they did with Eder. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Aridea]

Eh I think there is a difference of perception of what you would consider a bad vs good argument, as well as what would or would not make sense. 

 

You thought the arguments were not good enough, I thought they were fine. (although I do have to say that something about his conversation at 2 disposition rubbed me the wrong way. its like it was meant to push you into asking whether he has feelings for the watcher. Never felt that way with Serafen for example.)

I also think its perfectly possible to have the most gorgeous, smart, and capable person as your best friend and never be attracted to them. But then again this is just purely personal opinion.

 

Regarding his quest - it actually made more sense now that I started replaying POE1. One of the first things you can ask him back in Gilded Vale is why the hell he was staying in the village which was on the verge of hanging him, and he just kind of shrugs it off. The guy is so hung up on the past and established way of things that nothing short of immediate death can push him, I thought it was actually fitting he remembered his old flame. Instead of looking to the future for comfort he is looking to the past. Plus, there is the whole "re-evaluating personal beliefs" kind of thing happing in his head still.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[PatrioticChief]

Eh I think there is a difference of perception of what you would consider a bad vs good argument, as well as what would or would not make sense. 

 

You thought the arguments were not good enough, I thought they were fine. (although I do have to say that something about his conversation at 2 disposition rubbed me the wrong way. its like it was meant to push you into asking whether he has feelings for the watcher. Never felt that way with Serafen for example.)

I also think its perfectly possible to have the most gorgeous, smart, and capable person as your best friend and never be attracted to them. But then again this is just purely personal opinion.

 

Regarding his quest - it actually made more sense now that I started replaying POE1. One of the first things you can ask him back in Gilded Vale is why the hell he was staying in the village which was on the verge of hanging him, and he just kind of shrugs it off. The guy is so hung up on the past and established way of things that nothing short of immediate death can push him, I thought it was actually fitting he remembered his old flame. Instead of looking to the future for comfort he is looking to the past. Plus, there is the whole "re-evaluating personal beliefs" kind of thing happing in his head still.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

This is obviously just my 2 cents too. But enough people have concurred to make me think my analysis is probably not an isolated one. You feel differently. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

As for this 

 

I also think its perfectly possible to have the most gorgeous, smart, and capable person as your best friend and never be attracted to them. But then again this is just purely personal opinion.

 

 

It may be possible but I find it incredibly improbable. I am also fairly confident one could find more than a few scientific studies to support my skepticism as more of a fact than an opinion. I definitely believe there are reasons an individual in such a situation could find an excuse to suppress their attraction. I simply do not think the game gives a compelling one. Without one, or a reason they wouldn't be attracted due to race/batting for the other team etc, it simply feels unrealistic and contrarian. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[Ascaloth]

With regards to Eder not being romanceable, a few pieces of the puzzle dropped into place for me when he first mentioned Elafa's personality. Specifically, she's pretty loud when being friendly, she's short and ill-tempered, the sort to push a pistol up the nostrils of any uninvited guests. So, an unladylike, uncouth ass-kicker of the roughest sort.

 

Now if we think about it, in all our travels so far, which women's company did Eder particularly enjoy above and beyond the usual courteous demeanour he treats his fellow Companions with? As a matter of fact, there's only one; Iselmyr. Who also fits the aforementioned description.

 

Tl;dr Eder isn't interested in romance with Xoti or the Watcher, because he has a type.

 

[Aridea]

Yes, apparently there is some data-mined dialogue for that too. But... lets not go in there... 

[Galagraphia]

Hm, the short story mentioned that Edér is fully aware that he has a type (like Elafa, Iselmyr), but he's also aware that he can't endure relationships with such women for long, because he gets tired of it. So I got the idea from that story that this is his type for short term fun And that's why I'm surprised he's so into Elafa 20 years after she told him she doesn't need a relationship with him. The story also implied that Elafa wasn't the only one of that type he ever dated, because he thinks to himself "it never lasts with girls like that". So why her and not, say, the milkmaid? I bet that one still lives in Gilded Vale and is much easier to find. That's why his quest is not convincing to me.

[Slotharingia]

Yes, apparently there is some data-mined dialogue for that too. But... lets not go in there... 

Why not? I want to know now lol.

[Sotof]

Honestly I just saw his quest as him trying to keep an old promise.

[Ryz009]

With regards to Eder not being romanceable, a few pieces of the puzzle dropped into place for me when he first mentioned Elafa's personality. Specifically, she's pretty loud when being friendly, she's short and ill-tempered, the sort to push a pistol up the nostrils of any uninvited guests. So, an unladylike, uncouth ass-kicker of the roughest sort.

 

Now if we think about it, in all our travels so far, which women's company did Eder particularly enjoy above and beyond the usual courteous demeanour he treats his fellow Companions with? As a matter of fact, there's only one; Iselmyr. Who also fits the aforementioned description.

 

Tl;dr Eder isn't interested in romance with Xoti or the Watcher, because he has a type.

 

 

See if he had said his relationships don't last long and he doesn't want to ruin his friendship with the player I'd got it. But he instead dances around it with how he's too messed up and his head is not in the right place instead of admitting he has a habit of screwing up more intimate relationships.

[Midian13]

With regards to Eder not being romanceable, a few pieces of the puzzle dropped into place for me when he first mentioned Elafa's personality. Specifically, she's pretty loud when being friendly, she's short and ill-tempered, the sort to push a pistol up the nostrils of any uninvited guests. So, an unladylike, uncouth ass-kicker of the roughest sort.

 

Now if we think about it, in all our travels so far, which women's company did Eder particularly enjoy above and beyond the usual courteous demeanour he treats his fellow Companions with? As a matter of fact, there's only one; Iselmyr. Who also fits the aforementioned description.

 

Tl;dr Eder isn't interested in romance with Xoti or the Watcher, because he has a type.

 

 

Well Aloth says my character is like Iselmyr (aggressive/passionate) in dialogue she has with him.  So...?   This isn't me having a problem with your response but how the writer of Eder's character doesn't give any response.   

 

I just think this whole Eder personal quest was handled poorly, romance or not.  It's essentially a rehash of the 2015 novella "The Reaping."   For those who haven't read the story this whole ex-girlfriend story line comes out of nowhere, and for those who did read it, makes it even more questionable why it was included at all.  To be fair though the novella gives an overall better characterization of Elafa than the game ever does.  Elafa in the novella knows exactly what she wants, what she doesn't, and tells Eder this.  It seems this whole personal quest is a step back with Eder's character rather than a step forward.   The events in the novella occurred fifteen to twenty years prior to Deadfire, and for some reason Eder learn nothing from it?  Eder's character takes an even further step back when he opts to take care of her son, if you read the short story that's not what Efala wanted Eder to do. 

 

My take is that Eder doesn't really know what he wants.  But nowhere in the game is PC able to discuss this with him.  He states that wanting to find Elafa isn't a love thing.  He talks to Pallegina about kids.  Maia points out that he seemly dwells on "what if's."  Still there isn't any way for your character to ask him about it.  Not even on a friend level.  I don't even remember Eder thanking the Watcher for saving Elafa's son.  It just comes off to me as an inconsistent mess, and there is only so much I can blame on bugs.

[Voss]

Honestly I just saw his quest as him trying to keep an old promise.

I just saw it as an irrelevance. She was already dead long before he talked about her, and he didn't even like the kid. (Yelled at him like he was a blithering moron for not already knowing the secrets of the gods...despite the fact that we hadn't told anyone so far)

 

It felt like someone randomly obsessing over a girl they took to a dance once in junior high.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Voss