Wizards...butchered.

[Zeitzbach]

Wizards feel "different" from POE1. Multiclass wizards are absurdly broken. I'm playing an unbroken+wizard in POTD and it's funny how enemies that are supposed (by level) to crush you barely does any kind of damage. Lots of buffs at 0.4s/each. I went to Hassango at level 5-6 and I was able to tank an entire group of snakes by myself as long as the buffs were active. No class can do that. +5 STR +5 Dex + 5 Int + 5Con, 11-12 armor value, HP regen and spikes of +50 deflection (veil) with level 2 spells!

 

But pure class casters are kinda weak compared to what they were in POE1. Specially single class ciphers that I find extremely underpowered (the best thing they can do is to spam endless whispers) . Some players says that at high level wizards are good. At high levels every class is broken, specially if you have proper items. I think it's just time to get used to the new mechanics.

 

Nah, even if you have items, you don't scale as well as magic do and can't abuse empowered. This is because when magic scales up in power level, their base damage goes up which is greatly boosted by the might and crit. Meanwhile, weapon are stuck with absurdly low base damage unless it has some kind of bonus damage attached to it. It just so happen you can grab legendary gears early and be strong all the way to level 15-16 before they start to fall in damage again.

 

Wizard has the strongest damage in the game with T9 Salvo or Meteor that can 100-0 the tankiest boss when empowered. Druid has the strongest AoE in the game for common fights with Maelstorm. And Cipher has the best attack buff in the game with +8 pen allow those two to overpen anything without having to crit especially with the level scaling fixed to at least give the bosses some defense to go with their "hit to crit" defensive passive.

 

People just hate it that cipher is no longer the "Drop into fight and perma CC + kill everything with infinite resource". They are now more of an offensive-support class that can use weapon to deal some damage.

[Kampel]

I actually love what they did to wizards, in PoE1 it was useless to have scrolls or different grimoirs, now you need to pick good grimoir combos and get ready multiple scrolls for big battles. Wizards are not self sustainable as before.

 

The need for disposable items is not perfecly refined or balanced yet but i like the direction this is going.

 

I also found the "cape of the seven bolts" or something and a belt that generates free scrolls each fight, keeping things interesting

Edited May 19, 2018 by Kampel

[Juodas Varnas]

Eh, i've always preferred casters with a universal 'mana' system myself, i just find the whole "being able to cast x 1st level spells, x 2nd level spells, x 3rd level spells"

[Volourn]

"I actually love what they did to wizards, in PoE1 it was useless to have scrolls or different grimoirs, now you need to pick good grimoir combos and get ready multiple scrolls for big battles. Wizards are not self sustainable as before."

 

Haven't used scrolls or grimoires in PE2. In fact, only good thing grimoires bring for me is gold. <>

[Kampel]

"I actually love what they did to wizards, in PoE1 it was useless to have scrolls or different grimoirs, now you need to pick good grimoir combos and get ready multiple scrolls for big battles. Wizards are not self sustainable as before."

 

Haven't used scrolls or grimoires in PE2. In fact, only good thing grimoires bring for me is gold. <>

I have several, it gives me freedom by not being forced to pick "autoinclude" spells because i know a grimoir will have it, so i can go pick the less used ones.

 

I do agree that the other abilities available for wizards are kinda too generic.. they could have added things like "point blank casting: -%75 spell range, +30% casting speed"  stuff like that for building diversity

 

They could have improved the quantity of grimoirs with unique bonuses, so far i've only seen one, in a vendor.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Kampel

[Sanctuary]

In my opinion new mechanics have made wizards ridiculously good.

 

Grimoires is biggest advantage which wizards have, as you don't need to actually pick any spells during level up as you get access to them via grimories, which there are plenty. Also grimories give you flexibility with your active spells that other classes don't have, as you can change them even middle of fight. If you make pure wizard build you can pick up more passive abilities which allows you pick more defense bonuses without hindering effectiness of you build, you can do more min-maxing with you attributes without losing you defenses too much. And multiclass wizards can just focus to pick things from their other class.

 

Empowered spell give you ability clear horders of enemies from beginning and your ability to clear most of the enemies with single spell just gets better in late game.

 

Also wizards spell list is very flexible, as you have access to variety of single target damage spells, aoe damage spell, de/buffs, magic weapons, protection spells from beginning which means thanks to grimories that you have something to every situation.

 

I feel like Grimoire's are really just a trap.  Or at least, they are when you factor in the Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry.  To do much of anything up until you have at least four spell tiers unlocked (so up to eight spells per encounter, but that's including self buffs that are mandatory), you have to choose between having "more options", but limited casts, or +1 cast per spell tier.  I don't see there being a reasonable choice, especially when there are still only a select few spells that are good per tier for the longest time.  You shouldn't actually run into an issue of not being able to cherry pick all of the best spells, because there aren't that many per tier.  Even after you get the grimoires that have unique spells in them, they still aren't worth using (to me) over just spamming the missile group of spells as your primary damage dealers.

 

Yeah, yeah, you can cheese the hell out of the game and make it easier than it already is by using Empower points every fight and then resting each time, but none of the other classes need to actually do that to matter for the duration of any given fight.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Sanctuary

[alexis13]

I was kinda annoyed arcane veil was made as a spell instead of an oh **** cd passive ability.

 

 

Also my Arcane Knight, Pally Burn ability + 4 armour, Pally +1 Armour aura (supressed), Wizard Spirit shield (Supressed) <--- I give you Multiclassing everybody.

 

Wtf is the point?

Edited May 20, 2018 by alexis13

[ppscurry]

Is there even a point in arguing whether something is butchered or not when you label a mechanic that's supposed to help it, "cheese"? If you ask me, the empower system is made just for wizards/druids/priests who only have 1 or 2 casts so they have to make them count. If the game is too easy then the mobs should be buffed, empower as a mechanic is great and gives wizards more flavor. 

 

As for the lack of spell casts, I honestly wished they toned down the individual power of every spell but added 2 more casts to each tier. That way you are encouraged to pick more spells or at least bring more spells rather than just casting arcane veil and mirrored image every single fight and having nothing else to cast after that.

Edited May 20, 2018 by ppscurry

[evilcat]

If you could multiclass wizard with wizard, would you?

You would use two different grimoires. And have PL only 7 (not 10). But have 2x2 spells per tier.

Woudl such MC be stronger than Wizard/Druid or Druid/Priest?

[Zeitzbach]

If you could multiclass wizard with wizard, would you?

You would use two different grimoires. And have PL only 7 (not 10). But have 2x2 spells per tier.

Woudl such MC be stronger than Wizard/Druid or Druid/Priest?

 

No Meteor and Salvo. Dumped.

[Sanctuary]

 

If you could multiclass wizard with wizard, would you?

You would use two different grimoires. And have PL only 7 (not 10). But have 2x2 spells per tier.

Woudl such MC be stronger than Wizard/Druid or Druid/Priest?

 

No Meteor and Salvo. Dumped.

 

 

So at level 19, you don't get "the most powerful" spell in the game?  Gotta wonder what some of your priorities are.  When I finsihed my first playthrough, I had just hit level 19 with the majority of the quests I had picked up along the way finsihed, aside from a few of the task bounties.  Hurray, I got to play "the most powerful class in the game" for thirty minutes.  Had I decided to reload a previous save and mop up all of the quests that I had left, or had yet to find, so what?  It wouldn't have made a difference.

 

There's more than level 19 in this game, which is at the point where it's essentially over.  Even if you had four or five hours of content left to do, it still doesn't matter.  Everyone will be level 19 - 20, and everyone will already be higher level than everything else until they fix the scaling. If there's going to be DLC released similar in size to the previous game, it might make a difference there, but then they also might raise the level cap too again.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Sanctuary

[Lokithecat]

I don't find multi classing Wizards to be bad, its just a matter of finding something with good passive / non time wasting abilities.

 

Helwakler Wizards are hilarious.  Unhittable with a few level 1 - 3 spells (With mass Int they're going to last the fight, and they've got basically no cast / recover time), +10 Intelligence, +10 Might.  Dance of Death, from the back ranks.  Chromastaff can actually wreck things, Spearcaster if you feel like going a different direction.

 

As for missing out on the 'Ultimate' Spells, scrolls of Meteor Shower, with this build will outdamage a vanilla wizard.  Scrolls, really shouldn't be overlooked, in the class discussion.

[serenityangel]

Summon familiar should just be a party-wide pet trinket.. it's always out and does it's buff thing, but most importantly doesn't count as a summon in combat.

[Zeitzbach]

 

 

If you could multiclass wizard with wizard, would you?

You would use two different grimoires. And have PL only 7 (not 10). But have 2x2 spells per tier.

Woudl such MC be stronger than Wizard/Druid or Druid/Priest?

 

No Meteor and Salvo. Dumped.

 

 

So at level 19, you don't get "the most powerful" spell in the game?  Gotta wonder what some of your priorities are.  When I finsihed my first playthrough, I had just hit level 19 with the majority of the quests I had picked up along the way finsihed, aside from a few of the task bounties.  Hurray, I got to play "the most powerful class in the game" for thirty minutes.  Had I decided to reload a previous save and mop up all of the quests that I had left, or had yet to find, so what?  It wouldn't have made a difference.

 

There's more than level 19 in this game, which is at the point where it's essentially over.  Even if you had four or five hours of content left to do, it still doesn't matter.  Everyone will be level 19 - 20, and everyone will already be higher level than everything else until they fix the scaling. If there's going to be DLC released similar in size to the previous game, it might make a difference there, but then they also might raise the level cap too again.

 

 

He asked if I would sacrifice T8 and T9 for more wizard spells in T1 to T7 with a multiclass type growth. You knowl this means getting a new spells tier every 3 levels instead of 2. This means slower access to fireball, Gaze, Orb, etc.

 

You're right there's more than level 1 to 19 but purposefully hindering your own spell growth just so you can use weak spell more often is extremely poor planning. Why would you delay your own spell growth just so you can use lower tier spell more often? Why use Minor Missile 4x or chill fog again when I can be using Paralyzing blue Fireball at level 7 instead? Or bounding/AoE Missile.

 

So no, double wizard is just weaker than a single-wizard at all level and only appeal to people thinking spamming more spells is better than using the best spell for that situation.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Lokithecat]

 

Even after you get the grimoires that have unique spells in them, they still aren't worth using (to me) over just spamming the missile group of spells as your primary damage dealers.

 

 

 

Well, if you're playing this stupidly, no wonder you think the class sucks.

[Jorian Drake]

Apparently wizards, as usual, become godlike at high levels, even with these changes.

 

Grimoires, you're supposed to swap them around now, which nobody ever did in POE1.

In PoE1 if Aloth had "Aloth's Grimoire" why would anyone change it to something else, insteado f just changing the spells inside of it? It was better to go this route of grimoire swaps (but with ability to rename the items) or no option to pick up further grimoires but copy all spells from them.

[omegazen]

The subclasses are pretty bad besides Evoker, at least that's the only one that grabbed my attention. But other than that, Wizard is still super strong as always.

 

No one is mentioning how ridiculously strong the Minoletta's Missile series is? Especially empowered it can one shot so many groups of enemies because it's AOE. it always takes priority over anything besides T8&9 spells.

Large CC AOE spells? 

Great defensive enchanting?

[omegazen]

 

 

 

 

Well, if you're playing this stupidly, no wonder you think the class sucks.

 

How is that stupid? He's totally right. A lot of people can see that the subclasses are pretty lame besides Evoker just because it's purely strong. Wiz is awesome and honestly OP because of the Minoletta missiles taking priority over anything. It wrecks most mobs, especially empowered, and there's no reason not to spam it. I went through the whole game using my original grimoire and never needing anything else since I was an Evoker & I had pretty much most of the spells I could use anyway. Why would you need any other grimoire other than to mess around as a general Wizard for fun? If you're going for pure power, most spells are sub-optimal compared to some.

Edited May 21, 2018 by omegazen

[Elerond]

Wrecking most mobs isn't really that difficult thing to achive with any of the classes in this game, as most of the mobs consist of weaklings. You can in most cases just run in and let your party kill everybody without giving them any orders.

[Zeitzbach]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if you're playing this stupidly, no wonder you think the class sucks.

 

How is that stupid? He's totally right. A lot of people can see that the subclasses are pretty lame besides Evoker just because it's purely strong. Wiz is awesome and honestly OP because of the Minoletta missiles taking priority over anything. It wrecks most mobs, especially empowered, and there's no reason not to spam it. I went through the whole game using my original grimoire and never needing anything else since I was an Evoker & I had pretty much most of the spells I could use anyway. Why would you need any other grimoire other than to mess around as a general Wizard for fun? If you're going for pure power, most spells are sub-optimal compared to some.

 

 

You don't even need to min-max or be an evoker to bust the game with Wizard though. Majority of their spells are really good even at base level. Don't view wizard in general as weak just because Evoker is the most busted line. Wizard general power level is already part of the a top 3 best classes in the game,

 

THe only time you will ever feel like Wizard is weak is that you constrantly label certain feature of the game "Cheesy" and self-gimp everything to make it "Fair" for the other classes. Wizards are never fair.

[eschu101]

I'm playing a vanilla wizard and i'm really liking it. Initial levels were really hard (potd), especially with 2 wizard on group (my pc vanilla and battlemage alloth) but now i'm level 6 and i really find it enjoying. My PC is very frail (8con/3res) but the damage tops everyone in the group by far, even serafen. Chill fog and Fireball do all the work.

[lonelornfr]

 

So at level 19, you don't get "the most powerful" spell in the game?  Gotta wonder what some of your priorities are.  When I finsihed my first playthrough, I had just hit level 19 with the majority of the quests I had picked up along the way finsihed, aside from a few of the task bounties.  Hurray, I got to play "the most powerful class in the game" for thirty minutes.  Had I decided to reload a previous save and mop up all of the quests that I had left, or had yet to find, so what?  It wouldn't have made a difference.

 

 

I don't get your point. Wizards aren't great only because of the lv 9 spells, as soon as they get access to lv 3-4 spells they melt faces. Hard.

 

Maybe i love the class too much but wizard is the only class i would always include in every party, unless i deliberately want to gimp myself. Of course, until difficulty is being fixed, you could ace potd with any party, but hopefully that'll change.

Edited May 21, 2018 by lonelornfr

[Elerond]

I tested today several wizards builds as my main character one annoying thing that I noticed was that you get always same grimoire, which has two evocation spells on first level, which make it pretty useless for wizards from schools that can't use evocation spells.

[omegazen]

 

You don't even need to min-max or be an evoker to bust the game with Wizard though. Majority of their spells are really good even at base level. Don't view wizard in general as weak just because Evoker is the most busted line. Wizard general power level is already part of the a top 3 best classes in the game,

 

I never said Wiz was weak, I know theyre one of the strongest. The point was about the guy saying it was stupid that someone would cast Minoletta's over and over, when it is clearly one of the easiest and most powerful ways to melt enemy groups throughout the entire game, so why wouldn't he.

Edited May 22, 2018 by omegazen

[takamorisan]

Wizards with empower are working pretty well, so they are far from being underpowered.Though I agree that removing the grimoire customization felt bad making your spell options limited, it plays more like a sorceror instead of a D&D Wizard.

I'd suggest giving Grimoires different abilities to certain spells behavior to incentivate acquiring and buying then and give back the spell customization.