summoner (beckoner vs pally/beckoner)

[Alengari]

I'm wanting to try out a beckoner for support and summons but I can't decide whether to stick with a full beckoner, or pair it will a pally for all the group (and pet) buffs.  

 

For those that have gotten to late game, which seems better to you?  

 

Beckoner will get his summons earlier as well as get access to the strongest summons, while the pally will be able to buff not only his summons, but the group as well.  

 

Any help/opinions are appreciated.  Thanks!  

[TheMetaphysician]

One thing to consider: with the shortened duration on the beckoner summons, it is pretty challenging to keep summons up all the time, and that problem gets worse with the higher-tier summons since they cost more phrases. Mine (with high intelligence) can keep wurms up all the time no problem (cost 2 phrases, same duration as the higher-tier summons), and can just barely keep skeletons (cost 2 phrases, shorter duration) and ogres (cost 3 phrases, same duration as wurms) up all the time. Anything higher level than that I won't be able to keep up all the time.

 

I take that to be a great argument for a pally/beckoner, since if you want to keep your summons up at all times, you'll want to focus on mid-to-low summons (ogres and below) anyway, which you'll get easily and early as a multiclass. And you'll get all the paladin goodness too.

 

Now, if you want to be a non-beckoner summoning chanter (like a troubadour using brisk recitation), that would be more plausible to use as a single-class and go for the higher-level summons, since a troubadour can get the phrases needed for the higher-level summons much more quickly.

[ErlKing]

I played a bit with both Chanter summoner and Paladin-Chanter, though I chose Troubadour instead of Beckoner.

 

Pure chanter will get better summons/songs eventually and will get them earlier, but from what I saw Chanter doesn't have much to do inbetween besides regular attacks and trying to survive.

So far I like paladin-chanter gameplay more (I went with Kind Warfarers), as I'm much tankier, can give some burst damage together with AoE heal and also provide buffs with aura.

 

As pure chanter I got killed and interrupted several times before I could finish first summon, so Pally-Chanter feels safer. On other hand that 9 level dragon summon looks really great, nothing is more satisfying than a sudden dragon, use that vortex wizard spell to gather enemies together and roast them with your pocket dragon.

So it is up to you to choose what you like - safer and more active role as pally-chanter or more backstage caster-summoner with potential to reach cooler stuff eventually.

 

Now about Beckoner vs Troubadour:

 

Beckoner have -1 to chant cost, Troubadour have +1 to chant cost, but his songs are 3 seconds long, so he gets phrases twice as fast. For starting summon chants they both equal, and Troubadour more cost-effective for more costly summons (Ogres, Drakes).

Beckoner summons twice number of summons, but they have 70% duration and 25% health of originals, no idea about attack, it could be the same.

 

Overall:

Beckoner - more DPS and cannon fodder with summons, summons could be weak vs strong AoE. You need to cast summons more often and higher summons are harder to maintain.

Troubadour - more versatile as he can use other chants much more often, less dps from summons, can easily maintain higher summons.

 

I personally prefer Troubadour, but you might like Beckoner more for more bodies on field.

Edited May 14, 2018 by ErlKing

[Tommy1984]

I play as a Beckoner/Paladin. By stacking Intelligence on equipment and power levels you can get enough duration for the low and mid tier summons.

At character level 12 I have these durations:
- skeleton = 16.1 sec
- ogres = 31.5 sec

So ogres are easy to maintain (3 phrases = 18 sec). But skeletons are more difficult (2 phrases = 12 sec), because you must also pay attention to your current recovery time and the summons cast time.

For higher summons you can buy a special chanter sabre in Neketaka. It gives you 3 phrases when you empower a summon invocation. You can enchant it to refund you the used empower point. So just empower all your summons to have +50% duration (empower gives +10 power level, each adding 5% duration) and get 3 phrases back for your next summon. By using this weapon it is easy to maintain the higher summons even as a Beckoner.

 

Beckoner summons twice number of summons, but they have 70% duration and 25% health of originals, no idea about attack, it could be the same.

 

For Beckoner summons its 50% health of originals, damage/accuracy/defenses are the same.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Tommy1984

[Boeroer]

Do you need anything else but skeletons as a Beckoner? I think since they scale with level probably not. Just cast skeletons over an over and buff with Mith Fyr and Shared Flames and that's the whole trick.

[Tommy1984]

Do you need anything else but skeletons as a Beckoner? I think since they scale with level probably not. Just cast skeletons over an over and buff with Mith Fyr and Shared Flames and that's the whole trick.

 

You don't need anything else , but I must say that 4 ogres kill things way faster than 6-12 skeletons. Ogres are also easier to maintain because of the longer duration. Skeletons only shine if you combine them with things like the priest spell "Spark the Souls of the Righteous".

[Alengari]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I've always liked summoning characters in games, and thinking that there are some super powerful dragon summons that i'm missing out on if I go paladin multi itches my brain.  On the other hand I didn't realize it would be so hard to keep the summons out.  

[Tommy1984]

My Beckoner/Paladin now uses the Animated Weapon summon on Power Level VII ... these hit even harder than the Ogres. Swarming the enemy with 6 summoned weapons each hitting for 50+ damage feels really powerful and ends most fights quickly. Also because of my high INT the duration is long enough to have them out constantly on my Beckoner.

But the bad thing is that as multiclass you can only choose 2 abilities on Power Level VII. So you have to decide between:
- Called to His Bidding, the Ancient Instruments of Death (6x summon)
- Set to Their Purpose, They All Knew Their Part (Brilliant Inspiration)
- Mercy and Kindness Followed Where'er She Walked (+100% healing)

 

As I'm multiclassed I couldn't test the Dragon summon.

[Maxzero]

My Beckoner/Paladin now uses the Animated Weapon summon on Power Level VII ... these hit even harder than the Ogres. Swarming the enemy with 6 summoned weapons each hitting for 50+ damage feels really powerful and ends most fights quickly. Also because of my high INT the duration is long enough to have them out constantly on my Beckoner.

 

But the bad thing is that as multiclass you can only choose 2 abilities on Power Level VII. So you have to decide between:

- Called to His Bidding, the Ancient Instruments of Death (6x summon)

- Set to Their Purpose, They All Knew Their Part (Brilliant Inspiration)

- Mercy and Kindness Followed Where'er She Walked (+100% healing)

 

As I'm multiclassed I couldn't test the Dragon summon.

 

That's an easy choice Death and Set to their purpose.

 

You actually start with the Purpose invocation first that why it generates resources super fast so you can summon the weapons.

 

The healing phrase is mainly for immunity to dying when muilti with a Fighter (swap the weapons invo out this case).

Edited May 18, 2018 by Maxzero

[Edolamberto]

Form my experience in potd, if u plan to go frontline just get trabadour, much more utily.. I did a priest/beckoner in backline that is the buffer/summoner and it's working well because summon has long casting time and u will get interrupted front line

[evilcat]

How many points you need from Chanter? It is class you can sink 7 points when MC (or close to that) and it will be functional. 

So combining it with Paladin you dont loose that much, and potencially gain alot in terms of more buffs or survival.

Other option is Druid, Eothas/Wael, Wizard.

[The Josip]

You don't want Beckoner and here's why:

 

 

1. Beckoner summons are tiny. 

That was the first thing that I noticed in the description of a subclass, so I went to test it and was greatly disappointed. Wyrms look like mosquitoes.

 

2. There is a higher level chant that spawn skeletons. Troubadour can spawn 100% more skeletons because of Brisk Recitation. I'm not a fan of skeleton summons because I'm not into necromancy, but this ability is fun to use. I don't know how effective they are in end game, because I only tested it with the console by leveling up my character and then sailing around with my ship searching for enemies. These skeletons were able to win fights alone. You can literally go AFK with one character. Yes, drake kills them all in one breath, but you immediately spawn more so it doesn't matter. Even if they die fast in the end game, they still have hp, and can soak damage. That's a lot of damage mitigation, and also some damage. They can be buffed by some spells (at least the tooltip says they are affected) but only some - Spark the Souls of the Righteous will not affect these skeletons (I tested it), but priest heals that I tried did affect them.

 

3. Troubadour is much more versatile, and "Set to their purpose.." invocation is OP. It makes -1 summon cost less relevant.

 

 

 

Reason to take Beckoner, maybe:

 

1. Your summons deal 2x more damage since you summon twice as many. The reason I said "maybe" is because I don't know how fast they die later (with 1/4 of hp of normal summons) on if they die at all. My quick experiment with the console showed that only the skeletons ever die, while dragons and the swamp plant don't. But I only tested on enemies on nearby islands. Summons also take a long time to cast, so having to cast them more often is damage lost. I'm not saying they don't make up for it, but it's still a part of the calculation.

 

 

 

Reason to single class:

 

1. Set to their Purpose is so ridiculous that getting that much earlier is a huge difference. 

2. Elder Dragon has boring attack without any fanfare, but it looks awesome and the ground shakes as he walks around.

3. You enjoy using ordinary weapons.

 

 

 

Reason to multiclass:

 

1. You want to constantly cast some spell/invocation/ability, and lower level abilities are all you need. Don't count lvl VII abilities as multiclass gets them so late in the game.

 

 

 

 

Right now I'm only into solo class Troubadour, and multiclass Skald. Because Skald benefits more from casting low level (low cost) invocations (such as Paralyze). The higher the cost of invocations, lower the benefit of Skald bonus (-1 of 3 is 33% benefit, -1 of an invocation that costs 6 is much less of a benefit).

 

 

 

From powergaming perspective, the jury is still on on whether multiclass is better than single class, and when.

From casual/fun perspective, (unless you're going solo) single class is arguably better because you get to play with more abilities of different kind. If you love summoning, you will at least sometimes want to summon that dragon, and you don't want it to be smaller than your character (ok, I don't know how small exactly is beckoner's dragon, but you get what I mean).