- some - Companions Attributes

[Gromnir]

Me: Durance has beast-mode

Half this forum: *triggered*

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91290-undead-hunter/?p=1877422

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86025-favourite-class-and-why/?p=1800103

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80477-support-casters-as-a-party/?p=1710090

 

etc.

 

am part o' the not triggered half.  as amazing as it sounds, we were literal the only person during poe beta who suggested priest were the mvp class, and is still curious to us how few folks appreciate the offensive capabilities o' the poe priest class.  have said it before, but am suspecting folks rare used their poe priests as anything but a buffer and healer.  is no question priests excelled in such a role, but their potency in the traditional support role blinded folks to the actual potential o' priests.  too bad.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Karkarov]

 

Me: Durance has beast-mode

Half this forum: *triggered*

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91290-undead-hunter/?p=1877422

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86025-favourite-class-and-why/?p=1800103

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80477-support-casters-as-a-party/?p=1710090

 

etc.

 

am part o' the not triggered half.  as amazing as it sounds, we were literal the only person during poe beta who suggested priest were the mvp class, and is still curious to us how few folks appreciate the offensive capabilities o' the poe priest class.  have said it before, but am suspecting folks rare used their poe priests as anything but a buffer and healer.  is no question priests excelled in such a role, but their potency in the traditional support role blinded folks to the actual potential o' priests.  too bad.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Yeah, people tend to forget one of the core tenants of Eternity was that every class be capable of being a DPS class.

[Ethics Gradient]

Why are Deadfire companions supposed to only have 75 stat points? Don't they get 78 like they did in PoE - and like the MC gets?

 

Pfft.  Math.  Yeah.  You're right.  75 base..., plus 3.

 

After you factor in the race and culture bonuses, the Xoti on the stream is only running a surplus:

Dexterity +1, Intellect +2

[AndreaColombo]

If you're checking attributes by looking at the character sheets shown in the streams, keep in mind that numbers in blue include a bonus (be it racial or from items/abilities.)

 

They showed Maia's, Tekehu's, and Pallegina's stats in the latest stream as well.

[JerekKruger]

Dexterity is an important attribute for Priests because, like all of the "Vancian"* casters their power is directly proportional to how quickly they can vomit their spells. This applies to buffing as well since you want to get all your buffs cast asap so that you can move onto damage dealing (which Priests are very good at). There's a reason that all four Priest builds in the PoE character builds list have Dexterity 16 or higher.

 

Yes, with Minor Avatar and Aggrandising Radiance Priest's can get +10 Dexterity relatively quickly at the start of combat, but Dexterity has a relatively modest diminishing returns and it's absolutely worthwhile to start with 18+ Dexterity if you can.

This isn't to say Durance is bad. He's not. However a Priest Watcher with high Dexterity will be a lot more powerful (this is one of the few situations where I'd say Attributes actually make a fair bit of difference in PoE).

 

... is still curious to us how few folks appreciate the offensive capabilities o' the poe priest class.  have said it before, but am suspecting folks rare used their poe priests as anything but a buffer and healer.  is no question priests excelled in such a role, but their potency in the traditional support role blinded folks to the actual potential o' priests.  too bad.

 

Agreed. Priests have the potential to be amazing damage dealers if you want them to be. 

 

*Obligatory "they're not technically Vancian" comment.

[BijaT]

The problem i had with priest damage dealers (if i remmeber correctly) was theres only a few spell levels that had good hitting spells. Meenin you coud blast of your load in one-two battles or focus more on buffing and cast a offensive spell when the situation is perfect. While wizard had pritty decent offensive spells at all spell levels meeing they coud be offensive longer.

 

Sure you can simply rest after evry other combat and have 4 priests blast ther load all battles but firstly running back to town that often (in PotD) is reallly boring.

 

Wizard is also prob the best tank (when using all the spells) but guess why 90%+ did not use one? it´s lame to be running back to town...also in some situations it´s not that easy.

 

The main strength with priest is ther diversability, beeing able to help the grp in whatever way is needed in the situation. That beeing a big AoE damage spell or healig or buffing.

[Boeroer]

Well, I think priest have a great damaging spell in nearly every level:

 

Lvl1:

- Holy Radiance (huh? Yeah: one-shot most vessels with high MIG,INT and the right dispositions)

Lvl2:

- Divine Mark: strong single target soell

- Iconic Projection: fast cast AoE damage that only has to overcome 25% of freeze DR

Lvl3:

- Pillar of Faith

- Warding Seal

Lvl4:

- Shining Beacon (holy moly!)

Lvl5:

- Pillar of Holy Fire

Lvl6:

- Cleansing Flame (on top of da beacon! booyah!)

Lvl7:

- Storm of Holy Fire (dat size!)

Lvl8:

- Symbol of whomever

 

That's plenty of darn good damaging spells. Most of them have higher damage numbers than other casters on the same tier. The only problem is when you meet foes with immunity to burn damage.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[BijaT]

Well, I think priest have a great damaging spell in nearly every level:

 

Lvl1:

- Holy Radiance (huh? Yeah: one-shot most vessels with high MIG,INT and the right dispositions)

Lvl2:

- Divine Mark: strong single target soell

- Iconic Projection: fast cast AoE damage that only has to overcome 25% of freeze DR

Lvl3:

- Pillar of Faith

- Warding Seal

Lvl4:

- Shining Beacon (holy moly!)

Lvl5:

- Pillar of Holy Fire

Lvl6:

- Cleansing Flame (on top of da beacon! booyah!)

Lvl7:

- Storm of Holy Fire (dat size!)

Lvl8:

- Symbol of whomever

 

That's plenty of darn good damaging spells. Most of them have higher damage numbers than other casters on the same tier. The only problem is when you meet foes with immunity to burn damage.

A few notes:

Holy radiance, sure like a main char it can do good vessel dmg with high might but most ppl don´t main a priest..so..80 dmg over 3sec is pritty good but alot of the hard monster aint vessels...and late game vessels have 200hp+ so not rly one shoting them now

Iconic Projection, low frost line dmg, better to use for its heal

Pillar of faith is decent damage but main part is CC so shoud save to CC instead of nuking.

Shining beacon is a damage over time, most priests have pritty high int, with my priest it has 15sec duration. The damage woud be good if it was 6sec but...

Cleansing flame (dmg vise) is a singel target dot..most times it jumps to a bad pick. Shoud mainly be used to remove iritating buffs or damaging Bosses (most other die to fast by other things..dot...)

Storm of holy fire, yes good range but low damage so most late/end game monsters will only take 20-24dmg (nothing rly)

Symbol of:

Berath, dose 20-30 corrode dmg...sure most enemies maby only have 4-5armor...but it got no + accuracy so will do alot of half dmg...the dmg is so dam low...

Skaen, even worse 20-30 piercing...more common armor for enemies..and hit deflect (need lot higher accuracy & no bonus from spell

eothas 20-30 fire...still to low to mark anything

magran same as eothas

wael 20-30 frost...still to low...

 

Low dmg aoe spells: 3

DoT spells: 2

Singel target spell 2

minor aoe spell 1

Vessel only 1

 

 

To compare, with my chanter with only singing dragon thrash he dose 29dmg/3sec*2 with lingering even if a enemy have 20 armor in burn/slash thats 11.6 dmg evry 3sec to pritty mutch evrything..about same ammount like most of those low damage aoe spells, my monk hit for 30-40 (per hit) at alot faster pase then divine mark and dose allmost similar damage.

 

To add, later on you get a ability for monk (long pain) that let you use him like a ranged char (simply hit him a little to make 2 wounds) making him a crazy turret throwing punishment across the screen. To compare to my cipher (my second highest dmg dealer) Disintrigation(now we talking real dot) can oneshot most stuff..340 raw dmg over 22sec...Silent scream 50-70 raw singel target dmg + 40-50 raw aoe. amplified thrust (20 focus, easily 20-40focus per auto attack) 55-75 pierce dmg to 3 targets (jump) (allmost same dmg like cleansing flame and can be spammed easily high lev) and no dot...

 

mid/late game i mainly used my priest for buffs/utility/cc even tho he got 22 might he simply dose no dmg compared to my other chars (well abit more then my tank). Not saying i did not use the damage spells but they was hardly the heavy hitting parts of my party. And without her utility/CC abilitys my real hitters woud die to fast.

[Boeroer]

A few notes:

Holy radiance, sure like a main char it can do good vessel dmg with high might but most ppl don´t main a priest..so..80 dmg over 3sec is pritty good but alot of the hard monster aint vessels...and late game vessels have 200hp+ so not rly one shoting them now

A properly skilled and buffed priest can achive more than 300 burn damage with Holy Radiance.

 

Iconic Projection, low frost line dmg, better to use for its heal

Better to use as a damaging spell if you want to be a nuker priest. Also: very fast cast = spammable in tough encounters which is very good. You seemed to have missed the 1/4 DR which can make it better against certain high DR foes than spells with more base damage. At least at spell lvl 2 it's very decent.

 

Pillar of faith is decent damage but main part is CC so shoud save to CC instead of nuking.

You should use it as damage tool if you want to be a nuker priest.

 

Shining beacon is a damage over time, most priests have pritty high int, with my priest it has 15sec duration. The damage woud be good if it was 6sec but...

That's exactly the point: DoTs are so powerful because their damage scales with MIG AND INT. And also crits which prolong the duration by 50%. Sure it takes longer, but dealing 300+ foe-only damage in a huge area with one single spell is very, very powerful. It also stacks with itself.

 

Cleansing flame (dmg vise) is a singel target dot..most times it jumps to a bad pick. Shoud mainly be used to remove iritating buffs or damaging Bosses (most other die to fast by other things..dot...)

You missed the part where it doubles the damage of DoTs like Shining Beacon - making it an incredibly useful tool against bosses and other tough targets.

 

Storm of holy fire, yes good range but low damage so most late/end game monsters will only take 20-24dmg (nothing rly)

You missed that the damage comes in pulses/waves/showers every 3 secs and the 20-24 dmg is only the base damage value for one pulse. Actually the overall damage is enormous. with 30 MIG (18+item+buffs) and a crit with Merciless Hand and Dungeon Delver you would do 55 average damage per pulse - every 3 seconds. The high INT will increase the duration a lot as well as the area. It's just devestating. But firendly fire...

 

Symbol of:

Berath, dose 20-30 corrode dmg...sure most enemies maby only have 4-5armor...but it got no + accuracy so will do alot of half dmg...the dmg is so dam low...

Skaen, even worse 20-30 piercing...more common armor for enemies..and hit deflect (need lot higher accuracy & no bonus from spell

eothas 20-30 fire...still to low to mark anything

magran same as eothas

wael 20-30 frost...still to low...

Same as the storm: that's base damage - scales with Minor Avatar and stuff. Also gets crit bonus. If accuracy is a problem for your offensive priest then you are doing something horribly wrong. And those are the damage numbers per pulse again (every 3 sec)!

 

Low dmg aoe spells: 0

Awesome dmg spells: enough to lead the dmg chart if you wish. Shining Beacon alone is enough...

I didn't even mention good but not outstanding spells like Divine Mark or the seal spells.

 

I won't compare this to other classes like a dragon thrashed chanter. Everybody knows what he can do. I wanted to show why experienced players think that the priest can indeed be an incredibly good damage dealer if you want to play im so. I'd say he's one of the best if you combine his awesome buffs with his good nukes (= ridiculous nukes). Shining Beacon stands out because the dmg. potential with +10 MIG and +10 INT and +10 PER (potential crit) and also +10 DEX (faster spam) is incredible. Cast two of those in any encounter after buffing up with Inspiring+Aggrandzing Radiance + Minor Avatar and most of the time all enemies are dead after some time.

 

You can achieve the same with a priest + druid if you cast Champion's Boon and Crowns otF on him and he then uses Plague of Insects or Venombloom or even Rot Skulls. Pretty much the same effect - but you need more buff spell uses and two party members instead of one are occupied.

 

Priest can rule the dmaage chart and be very good at offense if one wishes so.

 

Keep in mind that DoT damage is not logged on the char sheet. So all the damage from Shining Beacon and stuff will not count towards "damage done" unless you install MaxQuest's mod which fixes this.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Boeroer

[Guest]

 

Shining beacon is a damage over time, most priests have pritty high int, with my priest it has 15sec duration. The damage woud be good if it was 6sec but...

That's exactly the point: DoTs are so powerful because their damage scales with MIG AND INT. And also crits which prolong the duration by 50%. Sure it takes longer, but dealing 300+ foe-only damage in a huge area with one single spell is very, very powerful. It also stacks with itself. 

 

 

Each of these crits is doing 250 burn damage. Unfortunately, Durance was only able to get 4 targets in this casting (ogres are big).

 

 

Stelgaer on the other hand...

[molotov.]

Sure he has beast mode. Priest is one of the best damage dealers in the game. You just need high MIG and INT and a good DoT spell. Now look at Durance's stats, Minor Avatar and Shining Beacon.

 

In comparison to that any arquebus shot is just wasted time (as long as you still have spells and are willing to use them). But I agree that it can be fun to shoot stuff with a priest.

 

Out of curiosity: which two exclusive magranite talents improve accuracy with the arquebus? I only know of Inspired Flame which will give you +10 to arquebus and sword and will put you on a fighter's level in terms of ACC with those two weapons.

 

I agree though that Durance feels a bit sluggish once you cast the lengthier buffs - like Devotions for example.

 

But I wouldn't say that a hireling priest is better: in the toughest part of the game a hireling will be one level behind Durance which not only equals -3 ACC and defenses, lesser endurance and health - but more importantly you will get access to important stuff like Inspiring Radiance later.

 

Why are Deadfire companions supposed to only have 75 stat points? Don't they get 78 like they did in PoE - and like the MC gets?

I said "exclusive for Magran" not exclusive with arquebus, his inspired flame and that AOE that gives +10 acc for erveyone.

[molotov.]

If you're checking attributes by looking at the character sheets shown in the streams, keep in mind that numbers in blue include a bonus (be it racial or from items/abilities.)

 

They showed Maia's, Tekehu's, and Pallegina's stats in the latest stream as well.

"Note that they were all equipped so some attributes were boosted by itens, but I believe we can get some idea."

[The Sharmat]

Considering that Pillars 1 companions' stats were based more on personality and abilities than optimizing for their party role, this might give us some idea what the companions are like in dialogue. I hope this means Xoti actually has some interesting convos about Eothas with the high int and all. I'll be disappointed if it amounts to another NPC that exists to be proven wrong by the player and then romanced into submission.

[Boeroer]

 

Out of curiosity: which two exclusive magranite talents improve accuracy with the arquebus? I only know of Inspired Flame which will give you +10 to arquebus and sword and will put you on a fighter's level in terms of ACC with those two weapons.

 

I said "exclusive for Magran" not exclusive with arquebus, his inspired flame and that AOE that gives +10 acc for erveyone.

Yeah, sure - but only one of those is really exclusive to Magran...

 

Every priest can pick Inspiring Radiance.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Boeroer

[molotov.]

 

 

Out of curiosity: which two exclusive magranite talents improve accuracy with the arquebus? I only know of Inspired Flame which will give you +10 to arquebus and sword and will put you on a fighter's level in terms of ACC with those two weapons.

I said "exclusive for Magran" not exclusive with arquebus, his inspired flame and that AOE that gives +10 acc for erveyone.

Yeah, sure - but only one of those is really exclusive to Magran...

 

Every priest can pick Inspiring Radiance.

 

So? It's still 2 skills that he can get for ACC, one exclusive to Magran and one exclusive for priests. The guy said that he had nothing to compensate for his poor acc, and he is quite wrong.

[molotov.]

 

 

Shining beacon is a damage over time, most priests have pritty high int, with my priest it has 15sec duration. The damage woud be good if it was 6sec but...

That's exactly the point: DoTs are so powerful because their damage scales with MIG AND INT. And also crits which prolong the duration by 50%. Sure it takes longer, but dealing 300+ foe-only damage in a huge area with one single spell is very, very powerful. It also stacks with itself. 

 

Untitled.jpg

 

Each of these crits is doing 250 burn damage. Unfortunately, Durance was only able to get 4 targets in this casting (ogres are big).

 

Untitled1.jpg

 

Stelgaer on the other hand...

 

I still don't see your point, any custom priest can do more damage than him. The thing is that priests are quite OP on Pillars 1 so if you make one with better attributes they will fare better, it's logical. Priests don't need only INT and MIG they also need DEX, you see... if you cast more quickly you do damage more quickly thus produccing more damage, incredible! One thing that priests don't need is resolve and Durance has a bunch of it, sure he at least can receive 2 hits before dying on PotD - one more than the regular priest - but that is hardly usefull.

You don't make anything special with him, you just use his dots - that are good not because Durance is a "beast" but because priests are powerfull -, I really prefer to use him with a gun, it's extremelly more fun than just cast dots after dots.

[Guest]

Yeah, you’re right. One 50 damage attack is definitely more satisfying than one 900 damage attack.

 

I’m sure that sacrificing some other stat so that he can cast those 20 second duration spells about 1 second faster is the way to go and that I have no idea what I’m talking about.

[Gromnir]

the custom priest we intend on being our first import to deadfire is fr. rodrigo mendoza, with starting attributes as follows: m15c9d10p14i16r14. resolve is, in our opinion, the best dialogue attribute, and as such we always has resolve in the 14-16 range for non tanks.  dex similar to durance is hardly a handicap. intelligence, on the other hand, is a seeming vital attribute for poe barbarians and casters and paladins and virtual anything but rogues and a few burst dps builds from other classes.  even so, overall, we see poe players as consistent overinvested in attribute values.  poe is not d&d. poe attributes become less important with each new level and each new talent acquired, and the goal o' "no bad builds" is largely possible 'cause o' the relative diminished impact o' attributes.

 

durance's attributes is not a particular limiting factor in his efficacy, just as father rodrigo mendoza is a potd killing machine in spite o' the 10 dex and 14 resolve. by mid game, talent choices and gear is far more significant than starting attributes... at least insofar as combat efficacy is concerned.  as such, we choose attributes so we is able to access the dialogue options we desire w/o needing resort to all kinda rest bonuses and wh0re bonuses and whatnot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

edit: am gonna clarify and admit one point-- the attribute spread we provide above is for poe, not deadfire.  attributes do not appear to be as influential in deadfire dialogues as poe.  so, m15c10d15p13i15r10 is gonna be our starting attribute spread.  is gonna be our attribute spread, with small variations, for any non tank.  might flip perception and something else if we is straight-up dps.  

Edited May 1, 2018 by Gromnir

[molotov.]

Yeah, you’re right. One 50 damage attack is definitely more satisfying than one 900 damage attack.

 

I’m sure that sacrificing some other stat so that he can cast those 20 second duration spells about 1 second faster is the way to go and that I have no idea what I’m talking about.

1 second faster? Dex can make your recovery AND your cast time faster, so it's more than 1 second, also the end game battles can finish in 10 seconds, or even less, if your priest can cast something faster he will be more viable. Let me explain that better... Durance can cast a dot that will do lots of damage, ok... that is "beast" like you said, then you will have to wait what? 3 to 4 seconds before casting something, my pc priest will wait 1 to 2 seconds, 50% less recovery and cast time... I'll let you do the maths.

 

Oh... no... not the damage, like I already said I have my PC, Edér, Hiravias, Kana and Aloth doing damage so I don't need Durance also doing damage, but a big gunshot in the beggining of the battle that can one shot a mage or even a priest it's satistying for me, but the loud noise of the arquebus is what I find most satisfying.

[molotov.]

the custom priest we intend on being our first import to deadfire is fr. rodrigo mendoza, with starting attributes as follows: m15c9d10p14i16r14. resolve is, in our opinion, the best dialogue attribute, and as such we always has resolve in the 14-16 range for non tanks.  dex similar to durance is hardly a handicap. intelligence, on the other hand, is a seeming vital attribute for poe barbarians and casters and paladins and virtual anything but rogues and a few burst dps builds from other classes.  even so, overall, we see poe players as consistent overinvested in attribute values.  poe is not d&d. poe attributes become less important with each new level and each new talent acquired, and the goal o' "no bad builds" is largely possible 'cause o' the relative diminished impact o' attributes.

 

durance's attributes is not a particular limiting factor in his efficacy, just as father rodrigo mendoza is a potd killing machine in spite o' the 10 dex and 14 resolve. by mid game, talent choices and gear is far more significant than starting attributes... at least insofar as combat efficacy is concerned.  as such, we choose attributes so we is able to access the dialogue options we desire w/o needing resort to all kinda rest bonuses and wh0re bonuses and whatnot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

edit: am gonna clarify and admit one point-- the attribute spread we provide above is for poe, not deadfire.  attributes do not appear to be as influential in deadfire dialogues as poe.  so, m15c10d15p13i15r10 is gonna be our starting attribute spread.  is gonna be our attribute spread, with small variations, for any non tank.  might flip perception and something else if we is straight-up dps.  

I already said on my first comment that I know that every companion can be good on PotD, but a custom priest can be better than Durance, also a custom fighter can be better than Edér. That is just logic.

[Voss]

No, that's a premise. Logic would involve a proof of the concept, not merely a decree.

[molotov.]

No, that's a premise. Logic would involve a proof of the concept, not merely a decree.

Like I already said 3 times by now, DEX decrease your recovery time and cast time, Durance will cast and wait 4 seconds until he can cast again, a custom priest with 15+ DEX will have to wait 2 seconds, 50% less idle time.

 

If you need further proof:

 

 

 

Let me see Durance solo the Adra dragon.

 

 

[Gromnir]

 

the custom priest we intend on being our first import to deadfire is fr. rodrigo mendoza, with starting attributes as follows: m15c9d10p14i16r14. resolve is, in our opinion, the best dialogue attribute, and as such we always has resolve in the 14-16 range for non tanks.  dex similar to durance is hardly a handicap. intelligence, on the other hand, is a seeming vital attribute for poe barbarians and casters and paladins and virtual anything but rogues and a few burst dps builds from other classes.  even so, overall, we see poe players as consistent overinvested in attribute values.  poe is not d&d. poe attributes become less important with each new level and each new talent acquired, and the goal o' "no bad builds" is largely possible 'cause o' the relative diminished impact o' attributes.

 

durance's attributes is not a particular limiting factor in his efficacy, just as father rodrigo mendoza is a potd killing machine in spite o' the 10 dex and 14 resolve. by mid game, talent choices and gear is far more significant than starting attributes... at least insofar as combat efficacy is concerned.  as such, we choose attributes so we is able to access the dialogue options we desire w/o needing resort to all kinda rest bonuses and wh0re bonuses and whatnot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

edit: am gonna clarify and admit one point-- the attribute spread we provide above is for poe, not deadfire.  attributes do not appear to be as influential in deadfire dialogues as poe.  so, m15c10d15p13i15r10 is gonna be our starting attribute spread.  is gonna be our attribute spread, with small variations, for any non tank.  might flip perception and something else if we is straight-up dps.  

I already said on my first comment that I know that every companion can be good on PotD, but a custom priest can be better than Durance, also a custom fighter can be better than Edér. That is just logic.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

"Well, at least we will have an excellent priest this time - I will never forgive your 9 dex/per Durance..."

 

as we noted, our custom poe priests typical has a dex o' 10.  middling dex for a priest is hardly any kinda handicap.  just as our custom priests is not prevented from achieving excellence, neither is durance.

 

am in danger o' this becoming spam, but as it not seem to be penetrating

 

"even so, overall, we see poe players as consistent overinvested in attribute values.  poe is not d&d. poe attributes become less important with each new level and each new talent acquired, and the goal o' "no bad builds" is largely possible 'cause o' the relative diminished impact o' attributes."

 

talent choices and party configuration were the main difference 'tween an effective durance or 10 dex priest and a terrible durance or 10 dex priest.  pretend as if the attribute spread for the companions were somehow unforgivable ("I will never forgive your 9 dex/per Durance") is at best hyperbolic and arguable utter ridiculous.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[George_Truman]

Durance will cast and wait 4 seconds until he can cast again, a custom priest with 15+ DEX will have to wait 2 seconds, 50% less idle time.

 

Can you show your work on this?

[Guest]

 

Durance will cast and wait 4 seconds until he can cast again, a custom priest with 15+ DEX will have to wait 2 seconds, 50% less idle time.

Can you show your work on this?

Work isn’t important. Important question is why in the world does it matter? CC has the targets locked down, your priest just nuked them with a 20 second duration damage spell, tanks and off tanks are chipping away at them with melee weapons...I mean, unless this is a boss fight or you’re doing a TCS run, what’s the rush?