A Cean Gŵla as a joinable companion

[Matteo89.b]

Peanut butter should be a snow cone flavor. Discuss.

 

I don't know if you are a troll or if you simply think that being a backer in evry possible way ( judging by your badges) gives you the right to do whatever you want.

 

Clearly good manners can't be bought with money.

 

Anyway i refuse to being dragged into a pointless discussion. I asked politely to stay on topic. You don't want to do that? Then do what you prefer, i tryed.

[Matteo89.b]

Algroth, you have a point.

And i appreciate that you took the time to explain your point of view.

Keep going then, as i sayd you have a good point.

[Guest]

 

Peanut butter should be a snow cone flavor. Discuss.

I don't know if you are a troll or if you simply think that being a backer in evry possible way ( judging by your badges) gives you the right to do whatever you want.

 

Clearly good manners can't be bought with money.

 

Anyway i refuse to being dragged into a pointless discussion. I asked politely to stay on topic. You don't want to do that? Then do what you prefer, i tryed.

“We should have a Cean Gwla companion”

 

“Ok”

 

“....”

 

[/thread]

 

So I’ll ask again, what were you hoping for?

[Amentep]

I'm hoping personal discussions between two posters can be taken to PM and this thread can continue discussing Cean Gŵla as companions and related topics, like unique NPCs and their good/bad impact on other games like NWN2 or PST.

[rjshae]

The point I wanted to make earlier, before it got side-tracked, is that introducing a weird companion in an otherwise relatively mundane fantasy setting just for the sake of being a weird companion isn't a particularly beneficial one. Just look at the PoE godlike, for example. They take up extra development resources, both from the art perspective and from game reactivity. Were they worth it? It's debatable. If you're going to have a Cean Gŵla, or something equally exotic, they should either be fundamental to the plot line or the entire adventure should probably be a freak show where weird is the norm. But that's just my perspective. I'm not opposed to weird characters -- I love sci-fi for example -- but I like a cRPG that takes itself seriously as well.

[Guest]

Hmm. I’m really not sure what to do with this.

 

The knee jerk example that keeps popping into my head is Okku (the bear-god from MotB). Could they have made their point with a character that wasn’t a bear god? I’m sure they could. I’m not sure the character would have been as memorable though.

 

I’m also remembering that we’ve been promised an “intelligent weapon” in Deadfire. For whatever that’s worth.

[Elkor_Alish]

Well, after Eder, my favorite companion was the Devil of Caroc, so you have my vote. . .Tentatively.

 

A well fleshed out character, whatever they are, is always to be preferred to an attractive gimmick. To be honest though, I thought the Grieving Mother was a ghost all the way until I saw her ending. Maybe I have just seen too many Shyamalan movies.

[algroth]

The point I wanted to make earlier, before it got side-tracked, is that introducing a weird companion in an otherwise relatively mundane fantasy setting just for the sake of being a weird companion isn't a particularly beneficial one. Just look at the PoE godlike, for example. They take up extra development resources, both from the art perspective and from game reactivity. Were they worth it? It's debatable. If you're going to have a Cean Gŵla, or something equally exotic, they should either be fundamental to the plot line or the entire adventure should probably be a freak show where weird is the norm. But that's just my perspective. I'm not opposed to weird characters -- I love sci-fi for example -- but I like a cRPG that takes itself seriously as well.

 

The point that I was getting to, and I think Achilles too, is that one aspect doesn't exclude the other, while an unusual point of origin might present a hook or premise or starting point with which to delve into deeper and more interesting themes. To use the example of Leyra as proposed by the OP, if Leyra had become a recruitable companion and we had followed her story of vengeance against the Leaden Key for what they did to her through the Engwithan device, that could have led to interesting themes regarding, for example, the effects of a thirst for vengeance so powerful it basically overrides the soul's capacity to be anything *but* a vengeful spirit, or the transformation of souls and their effects on the individuals they were as they become something no longer 'kith' (again, spirits, fampyrs, etc. to give examples - why would they change so utterly from their former selves to their undead self and so on), or on the other hand use her as a means of challenging and questioning the assumptions of a particular kind of monster or monsters in general and so on. Just throwing random ideas in the air, but what I'm saying is, same as a conventional character can be made unconventional through the approach one takes with them, an author can pick up on what makes a character unconventional to tell an equally unconventional story and delve into rarely explored themes and ideas.

 

When it comes to Pillars I do feel the game does a fairly poor job at making the strange or unconventional appear as strange or unconventional to that setting. Godlikes are meant to be rare, as are pale elves if I'm not mistaken - yet the interactions for either are very few and far between, and so they feel 'normalized'. The Devil of Caroc is otherwise the only character who seems to present an unconventional premise from the perspective of her "race" or "species" or whatever, and she *is* initially interesting (or so I find her to be) - but what seems to hold some initial promise is hardly explored and resolved all too soon, with the rest of the game having hardly any interactions with her to really explore those initial ideas. As a matter of fact, aside from some remarks with regards to her feeling trapped and detached in this construct's body of hers, the game hardly focuses on these aspects which make her premise interesting and instead do so on the revenge plot which is ultimately as bog-standard as ever. But that's an issue with the writing, really, not with the premise.

 

To use a counter-example of a game that comes to mind which has characters of both conventional *and* unconventional races/species/origins, there's Dragon Age: Origins and its expansion. Far as I'm concerned, most characters in that saga are dull as dishwater, no matter how snappy or lively the likes of Alistair or Morrigan try to be - yet those that do seem to stick to my mind as being particularly interesting and well-developed characters are precisely the likes of Shale, Justice, and to a lesser extent Sten. They all relate to very interesting inversions or themes relating to their specific existences. Justice, for example, is made fascinating by his conflict as a literal embodiment of an ideal slowly building a more multifaceted identity of its own by exposure to life in a more material world. Sten's entire dilemma as a character stems from the clash of cultures with the rest of Ferelden. Shale basically fulfills the promise mentioned earlier with regards to the Devil. Those are interesting themes that give these characters a lot more to chew on than any other companion in that game.

 

So ultimately it's really about the approach. And yes, also about whether the game is ready to invest time into reacting to that character, and whether the character and their themes and conflicts and story and so on justify the work necessary to build that reactivity and the necessary resources. If it's half-assed then the character won't have much of interest beyong being an unconventional-looking companion, but really, there's even worse than can be said about a regular companion whose approach is just as footy.

Edited March 23, 2018 by algroth

[Guest]

My take on the Devil of Caroc is that she was there to “flesh out”/give a voice to an important piece of lore that would have been lost to in-game books or biased NPCs.

 

While I agree that it’s easy to resolve to her side quest quickly, I do think there’s some depth to it (cycles of revenge, what is “justice”, etc)

[rjshae]

Well, after Eder, my favorite companion was the Devil of Caroc, so you have my vote. . .Tentatively.

 

A well fleshed out character, whatever they are, is always to be preferred to an attractive gimmick. To be honest though, I thought the Grieving Mother was a ghost all the way until I saw her ending. Maybe I have just seen too many Shyamalan movies.

 

Aye, well the Devic of Caroc was a manufactured facade to an otherwise reasonably normal character, and she fit within the soul-based theme of the plot. There was virtually no reactivity to her that I can recall, even though she is utterly alien to most people's experience in that setting. Her presence could just as easily have been handled through magical tattoos on a human, or some such device.

[Matteo89.b]

Well, i think that companions are one of the few weak points of Pillars of Eternity.

And one of the reasons why i started this topic.

 

Because afterall if companions are made well, why searching for exotic or unusual companions ?

 

People search the unusual in the hope to see something refreshing.

 

When i play Baldur's Gate 2, i always take my time to think about who am i going to recruit in my party. Because each Companion you miss means less interesting dialogues and other things. ( Like, for example, Aerie's words against Irenicus in the last battle or Minsc during all the game)

 

When instead i play Pillars of Eternity, i don't even try to recruit " companions ". I always prefer to create a whole party of hired adventurers. ( Obviously i already did a few  whole gameplays with each of them in my party)

 

Why? Because somehow PoE's companions are in my opinion too bland, they lack that something that make you care about them.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Matteo89.b

[algroth]

I really like the companions on Pillars in general, myself, and do think the game would miss a huge element of its appeal if they were not there. Reservations of a couple of them aside, anyhow.

[Elkor_Alish]

Aye, well the Devic of Caroc was a manufactured facade to an otherwise reasonably normal character, and she fit within the soul-based theme of the plot. There was virtually no reactivity to her that I can recall, even though she is utterly alien to most people's experience in that setting. Her presence could just as easily have been handled through magical tattoos on a human, or some such device.

 

In a setting where weird and unusual things are common, I can sort of see how she wouldn't attract too much attention. Try standing out on 4chan and then return and tell me of your travels.

 

Really I just liked her personality, I could care less what scripted responses NPCs have concerning her. She could have been a crusty alcoholic instead of a bitter robot and I still would have loved her.

[Wormerine]

The whole topic is clearly about  " A Cean Gŵla as a joinable companion " and we are talking about PoE.

 

Ok. As you wish.

 

It doesn’t seem like a very interesting pitch for the companion, if it can count as a pitch. As someone mentioned their nature as feral ghosts, don’t make them an obvious companion material. Even so, starting with “she is a ghost” seems like a bad start altogether. First we need to design overall story, themes, locations, factions and than we can discuss what companions would fit best, what factions/point of views we want them to reflect, what parts of the world we want to explore through them.

 

I think that a “ghost” companion could work - we had a grieving mother that is some ways was just that. At the same time in PoE the ghost/soul world is still rather misterious, so unless Obsidian plans to really explore metaphysics and afterlife of this place first hand, such companion is probably not the best choice.

 

The discussion of more odd companions in other titles is relevant. Planescape had unusual companions but entire game was like that. If Deadfire is again more grounded and a ghost companion would not fit into it. It’s a game that is faithful to its themes and narrative, not Divinity where you throw everything into one basket for the sake of it.