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Game mechanics in great detail - questions

game mechanics

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#1
Vaneglorious

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Hi.

 

So I've been trying to find answers to a lot of questions regarding obscure or otherwise ambiguous/unclear mechanics in PoE. I hope someone from the ranks of experts can find the time to help me out in this. I couldn't find these answers on the internet, despite my efforts.

 

Here are my questions:

 

-1-

Is spell accuracy directly derived from weapon accuracy? For example, if I have 50 accuracy with my current weapon, and the spell says (+10 acc vs will), does that translate to 60 accuracy vs will? If yes, does this mean I have a significant boost to spell acc if I have a 1H weapon only?

 

-2-

Do talents affect spells? i.e. if I, let's say, have the 1H talent (+15% hit-to-crit), does that also apply to spells? Being a wood elf and/or having the marksman talent have any effect on spells?

 

-3-

Does sneak attack (including Skaen and apprentice) affect spell damage?

 

-4-

Does the spell Combusting Wounds refresh each time damage is suffered? Do dots trigger it? If yes, isn't it a bit redundant to use it with dots, for example from a priest?

 

-5-

Do the bonuses from MIG and INT stack when using dots? Or does INT simply make it unnecessarily longer for the same damage output?  Also, I read that Wounding effect (from Persistence, for example) does the same damage every time, only affected by MIG, and INT only has a detrimental effect on it. Is that the only dot effect that behaves like this?

 

That's all that comes to mind right now. These questions keep me up at night (not really but it's a nice figure of speech ^^ ). Thanks for your answers in advance.


Edited by Vaneglorious, 07 March 2018 - 06:18 AM.


#2
Boeroer

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Hi,

 

  1. No. Spell accuracy is NOT derived from your weapon's accuracy. Weapons' accuracy only counts for attack rolls with that weapon (auto attacks or attack abilites that use a weapon like Flames of Devotion, Knockdown and so on).

    One handed weapon use has no effect on spells' accuracy. There is one exception (which may be a bug): the chanter has some invocations and phrases which do benefit from the +12 accuracy of one handed weapon use, for example Dragon Thrashed and White Worms. One Handed Style has no effect.

    Your spells' accuracy is calculated like so:
    1. base accuracy of your class + 3 accuracy per character level (counts for ALL attack rolls)
    2. bonus/malus from PER (+/-1 per point of PER above/below 10)
    3. +1 accuracy per character level (only counts for all offensive abilites, including spells)
    4. the spell's accuracy bonus
    5. ability buffs (Eldritch Aim or Zealous Focus and so on)
    6. item buffs (Gauntlets of Accuracy for example)
       
  2. Nope - One Handed style, Two Weapon Style and so on don't affect spells. Other talents do affect spells though:
    1. hater talents like Beast Slayer, Primal Bane and so on work with all spells that do direct damage (additive, no DoTs)
    2. Scion of Flame and Co. will boost burn/freeze/corrode/shock damage of spells by 20% (additive, no DoTs)
    3. Merciless Hand and Dungeon Delver (faction or story reward talents) work with all spells that deal direct damage (additive crit damage, no DoTs)
    4. Mob Justice works with spells 
    5. Gallant's Focus will raise your universal accuracy like Zealous Focus would, including spell accuracy (doesn't stack with Zealous Focus, Blessing or Eldritch Aim or Disciplined Barrage and so on)
    6. Outlander's Frenzy reduces your spells' recovery time and gives you more damage because of increased MIG
    7. Interrupting Blows works with every spell whoich can interrupt
    8. Penetrating Shot works with most spells that work from range and have to be targeted on an enemy (missiles, Necrotic Lance, Trhust of Tattred Veils...) or work in a line-shape (Mind Lance, Rolling Flame...)
    9. Vulnerable Attack might work with touch-based spells like Jolting Touch, but I can't say for sure. Maybe not. Would have to check this.
    10.  Bloody Slauhther works with spells
    11. I never tried if Shot on the Run works with ranges targeted spells. Might be, but I don't know.
       
  3. No, it doesn't. BUT: Deathblows (and only Deathblows) works with direkt damage spells (like Fireball, Missiles... no DoTs) and thus doubles the base damage (+100%) - which can be very powerful. And while we're at the rogues abilites: Deep Wounds works with all spells that deal perice/slash or crush damage - AoE or single target.
     
  4. Combusting Wounds gets triggered every time an attack roll is done and damage is caused. DoTs don't work (except the initial hit, but not the ticks). Thus, spells like beams, Wall of Flame, Chillfog, Missiles and such are good with it. Also weapons like Blunderbuss or Golden Gaze or Twinned Arrows which use multiple projectiles will trigger CW multiple times. Heart of Fury + CW is certain mob death.
     
  5. Usually DoT's damage profit both from MIG and INT (and crits). MIG raises the damage per tick and INT adds more ticks. A crit gives you +50% duration which can be a huge damage improvement. Spells like Envenomed Strike, Shining Beacon or Disintegrate become very powerful with high MIG, INT and crits.
    Dots that don't behave like this are wounding (MIG raises the overall damage but INT just spreads the damage thinner over time), Enduring Flames (I believe INT has no effect) and Wounding Shot (same like wounding). Maybe I forgot one. Thus, the dps with Persistence, Tidefall, Drawn in Spring and Acuan Giamas as well as Boar Tusks is better with low INT. But the overall damage doesn't suffer, it just takes longer to apply.

I hope that answers your questions. :)


Edited by Boeroer, 07 March 2018 - 06:51 AM.

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#3
Phenomenum

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Ouch. I was late))


Edited by Phenomenum, 07 March 2018 - 06:53 AM.

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#4
Boeroer

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:ninja:

 

:lol:

 

concerning Combusting Wounds: the spell itself doesn't stack on a target, so if an enemy already suffers from the CW spell a new appliance will just update the duration (makes sense because):
But once CW is on a target then all triggers will generate an instance of a CW DoT. And those run parallel - or stack if you wish. So a blunderbuss will generate 6 instances of CW DoTs which will deal their burn damage at the same time. It can be rather devastating. Since one CW-DoT-instance can do around 30 burn damage with decent MIG and INT - six of them can potentially cause 180 burn damage.

 

Good point about Distant Advantage (the wood elf racial). By the way it also works with AoEs that are centered around you if the radius is big enough (for example Sacred Immolation or Torrent of Flame or so). 


Edited by Boeroer, 07 March 2018 - 07:00 AM.

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#5
Vaneglorious

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 Great, thanks. That answered everything, I believe, and then some. I feel stupid for giving Aloth a rapier now.

 

So the duration on CW is just the debuff itself? And it stacks indefinitely per damage instance (but not dot ticks)? That sounds pretty powerful. I've been combining chill fog with it, and it's amazing what a level 1 and 2 spell combo can do.

 

So is it then a good idea to go 1h/shield and take weapon & shield style talent? Isn't the spell acc reduced by shields? (well, by medium and bigger, anyway)

 

Oh yeah, and another question came to me. The on-hit effects on weapons only apply to weapon attacks, right?

 

What's your take on the racials, though? Both wood elf and boreal dwarf have them.



#6
Boeroer

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So is it then a good idea to go 1h/shield and take weapon & shield style talent? Isn't the spell acc reduced by shields? (well, by medium and bigger, anyway)

 If you want to have more deflection then yes. A hatchet can raise deflection even more. Correct, spell accuracy will suffer if you're wearing a medium or large shield.
 

Oh yeah, and another question came to me. The on-hit effects on weapons only apply to weapon attacks, right?

Basically correct - but certain AoE effects that are connected to weapon attacks like Blast, Carnage Torment's Reach will carry the on-hit/on-crit effects over to the AoE. So for example a Barbarian with decent accuracy can cause prone on crit with Carnage in an AoE if he has an overbearing weapon. Same thing with a Wizard who uses Blast with an overbearing/stunning implement or a monk who uses overbearing/stunning weapons with Torment's Reach. Also works with spell chances like on the Redeemer.
 

What's your take on the racials, though? Both wood elf and boreal dwarf have them.

They are both good. :)

Edited by Boeroer, 07 March 2018 - 07:58 AM.


#7
hansvedic

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Weapon & Shield Style is good if you're going for a tanky wizard, like the Coldhearth or Bilestomper builds in the builds list.

Also, yes, medium & bigger shields do reduce spell accuracy.

Finally, yes, on-hit effects on a weapon only apply to strikes using that weapon, so if you're dual wielding an on-hit effect weapon and another weapon, only strikes with the on-hit effect weapon will have a chance to activate its on-hit effect. Wielding 2 on-hit weapons will not allow one weapon to activate the on-hit effect of the other weapon.

EDIT: Good job, Boeroer! Helpful as always, and you beat me to the punch. Heh.


Edited by hansvedic, 07 March 2018 - 07:58 AM.


#8
Boeroer

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Right

#9
Vaneglorious

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What's your take on the racials, though? Both wood elf and boreal dwarf have them.

They are both good. :)

 

Yes, but do they apply to the spell acc?

 

Thanks again btw.



#10
Boeroer

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Ahh - oops. :)

 

Yes, they do!



#11
Vaneglorious

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New question popped up in my mind.

 

There are multiple "+acc when attacking the same target as an ally" mechanics, on weapons, talents etc...

 

Do they apply to only one ally? Or all? And if only one, which one? Randomly chosen or the closest? The paladin talent Coordinated Attacks says it is for only one ally, the closest one.



#12
Boeroer

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You mean things like "Marking" and "Coordinated Attacks" I presume. Marking and Coordinated Attacks are basically the same thing - and they stack (also with all other acc buffs).

Only one ally. And it's the ally who's nearest to the "marker" and attacks the same target. As soon als the marker does something else than attacking (auto-attack or targeted ability like FoD)the mark is gone at once. The marking works as soon as you command an attack. No need to hit and no need to be in melee range. It's the status "attacking that enemy" that counts.

But if you look at casters:

Once a caster did cast a spell and finished he turns from attacking mode to idle mode (if AI is switched off). Once a character is idle he doesn't profit from marking anymore and thus another character who IS attacking can have it. So if you have one marker and two casters then both casters can profit from the ACC boost.

For example: imagine you have Pallegina with Coordinated Attacks and a marking weapon (+20 "marking" accuracy for an ally that's nearest to her and attacks the same target). THen we have Durance with Divine Mark and Aloth with Minor Missiles.

The enemy is a single Dargul.

So now Pallegina clicks on the Dargul for auto-attacking, "marking" the Dargul for an ally who's nearest to her AND attacks the Dargul as well.

Durance is nearer than Aloth and casts Divine Mark on the Dargul. He gets +20 ACC for his attack roll and then goes to idle mode.

While Durance finished his spell, Aloth started to cast Minor Missiles on the Dargul. The spell goes off right after Durance Divine Mark, but as the Missiles hit the Dargul Durance is already in idle mode, freeing up the marking for Aloth whos Missiles now also get +20 ACC.

THe ACC bonus gets calculated right at the time of the attack roll. So whenever an attack hits there will be a check if the character was attacking the same target as the marker and if he's the nearest one.

Hope I explained it in a way that it's understandable...

PS: what also stacks: two marking weapons on the same character, e.g. two "Shame or Glory" with a dual wielding setup. This way you can "mark" with +30 ACC as a paladin (+10 Coordinated Attacks, +10 SoG, +10 second SoG). Markings of two different characters don't stack on the same target. A Darcozzi Paladin with Inspiring Liberation can stack +40 ACC (completely stackable) on a single ally that way.

Edited by Boeroer, 09 March 2018 - 02:02 AM.


#13
Vaneglorious

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I see. Yes, it was easy to comprehend. So if multiple party members are attacking the marked target, only the closest gets the accuracy. So if I want to use my Stormcaller MC to get the acc bonus firing from the backline, I need to be the only one attacking to get the bonus.

 

Just out of curiosity, can attacking friendly NPCs "steal" this acc bonus? Including my own summons and charmed enemies.

 

Also, could somebody explain this? This is a recurring thing. I charm/dominate somebody, then they just shrug off the effect and become hostile again after a second. You can even see the visual effects of the previous spell Puppet Master before I cast Whispers of Treason, which crit for 22.5 sec, but then the ogre became hostile right away yet again.

 

https://imgur.com/a/pJNY1



#14
MountainTiger

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Charm and dominate will do this if there are no other enemies in combat; here it looks like you have two ogres under your control so one gets the effect removed.



#15
Vaneglorious

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Charm and dominate will do this if there are no other enemies in combat; here it looks like you have two ogres under your control so one gets the effect removed.

That makes sense. Although later on it happen with Darzir, the leader of the attack on Stalwart. And there were enemies nearby. Wish I made a screenshot of that, as well.



#16
Boeroer

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As far as I know dominate is still bugged and ends prematurely. Charm shouldn't have that issue though.

#17
MaxQuest

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Also, could somebody explain this? This is a recurring thing. I charm/dominate somebody, then they just shrug off the effect and become hostile again after a second. You can even see the visual effects of the previous spell Puppet Master before I cast Whispers of Treason, which crit for 22.5 sec, but then the ogre became hostile right away yet again.
 
https://imgur.com/a/pJNY1

As already mentiond that's a bug.
It was reported: here, here, here and here.
And here is the video with the same ogre you have faced: link

There is a method called every 3s, which checks if the charmed/dominated character is targeting an enemy. If he doesn't - the charm and dominate effects are removed.
There are few problems with this:
a. if it's the last enemy - casting charm or dominate just wastes your time and resources.
b. if the target gets interrupted right before the invocation of that method, it briefly has no target.
In both cases charm/dominate end before their displayed time left.

I have fixed this via a custom mod: link
Among other things what it does is:
a. makes sure that charm/dominate will last at least min(5s, their_duration)
b. adds an additional check that looks if there are enemies in 12m radius; and if there are the effect stays.
 

As far as I know dominate is still bugged and ends prematurely. Charm shouldn't have that issue though.

Charm and dominate act the same in PoE1. But the code makes an explicit check for confusion; so it's confustion that doesn't have this issue.

Edited by MaxQuest, 09 March 2018 - 06:16 AM.

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#18
Vaneglorious

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Guys...I am so confused...

 

https://imgur.com/a/P5KET

 

What's causing this?

 

I used the console prior to this btw, but only to tinker a bit with the fixed followers' base stats. I didn't break anything or did anything overblown. I simply rerolled them from lvl 1, which the game doesn't let you do.

 

EDIT: apparently pressing U (shortcut for my spell) insta kills mobs. Must be the console then :-/ .


Edited by Vaneglorious, 13 March 2018 - 05:29 AM.


#19
MaxQuest

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^ If you have enabled console commands via "iroll20s", K - insta-kills the mouseovered target.

When you don't need the console, you can disable it by using "iroll20s" again.

#20
Vaneglorious

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Okay, so.. I'm not sure if these are bugs, but probably are. Never have I encountered so many weird things in PoE as lately. Btw I have NOT touched the console in this playthrough.

 

So when I was going towards the Radiant Spore, I suddenly noticed that both Edér's and Pallegina's CON dropped down to 3 without any reason or precedent. It just dropped to 3. No debuffs, no indication of anything. It just changed to a base of 3. I was confounded as heck, to say the least. I had no choice but to console it back to the base.

 

Now in a different playthrough, I'm doing Caed Nua, as I would...now I'm suddenly noticing my barbarian MC is doing really, REALLY weird things, like doing 9x crits on single enemies, insta-killing them with 0.0 damage. I press C and notice I have --228-- accuracy! WTF?! I swear I'm not trolling.

 

I can't even explain this lol, just take a look at this:   https://imgur.com/a/Y669I

 

I did a quick save, then I noticed now my ACC is gimped. No weapon focus and no ACC from the weapon with +12 'accurate III' .  The hell is causing this? Again: no console.


Edited by Vaneglorious, 19 March 2018 - 04:00 PM.






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