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My Resolve Suggestions


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I think Josh is correct. The current situation where res gives a bonus to spell damage/healing may not be perfect, but it is better than any suggestions of the OP.

They should stick with the basic concept of what stats do.

Each point above 10 gives a flat bonus ( like +2 will defense ) or +X% of base value ( like +3%damage ), so that each stat has at least some use for every char.

The duration of effects is already influenced by int. I see no reason to change this and I see also no reason that something ( like damage, speed or acc) is influenced by several stats. That would make things more complicated and I see no benefit from doing so. Many mechanics and formulas are already too complicated or not well enough explained.

 

 

Josh is also correct that if res reduces the duration of effects, chars or enemies with very high res would be completely immune to everything. Looking at the defenses of enemies, lowering them and then use CC or increased damage against them was an importent tactical thing in PoE1. This would be gone, because it would be useless to cast any hostile effect on enemies with high res.

 

I also dislike when the stat gives an x% chance to cause or avoid something.

Like res giving a chance to empower, because the bonus for empower on different abilities is very different. This plus the random nature of the effect would make things unpredictable and you cannot act strategic if you cannot predict the outcome of an action.

 

They should stick with the simple rules:

acc - defense + 1d100 = X, and X determines if it is a miss, graze, hit or crit

abilities should only be empowered when you select empower (and you should see the exact effect of empower before doing it)

stats should give a flat bonus per point, not a chance of x% that something happens

 

I do like suggestions from the community and I did suggest some things myself.

But giving a long list of possible changes what a stat does one month before release seem not very helpful.

PoE1 was a great game, so I have faith in the devs that they create something good. (well, at least after some patches ;))

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But they can make it work as an additive as the duration bonus of INT. So for example an enemy cast a CC on you that last 10 second. And the enemy has 11 INT and you have 11 Res. If the reduce affliction duration bonus is calculated as an additive. The CC would last 10 X (1 + 0.05 - 0.05) = 10 second. Means Res bonus encounter enemy INT bonus. So if the INT is high, affliction duration wouldn’t be too bad.

 

If as Josh said, the Res works as a multiplier then no matter how high the caster’s INT. As long as I have high resolve, I can reduce affliction duration to a very short period of time. Which I agree make no sense and make other defense stats useless.

Edited by dunehunter
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Well, I have to admit I hadn't considered those downsides to resolve reducing hostile durations. I'm persuaded that, at the very least, it's not something worth trying to implement in the month leading up to launch.

 

I've needed to remind myself that even though POE1 Resolve was a dump stat for many characters, that just wasn't a big problem for the game. Not only was POE still fun, but I think if you polled the community about the game as a whole, buffing resolve would not have been a top five request. Which is not to say I wouldn't be excited about a Resolve solution. But a simple reversion would not be dispiriting or anything.

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Josh posted on Tumblr about the suggestion for RES to reduce the duration of afflictions:

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/171380084061/one-resolve-suggestion-i-think-you/

Resolve could grant a flat bonus, like -0.3s incoming affliction duration per point.

But yes, Josh has a point. And do agree with his reasoning.

 

I would not want a 10s paralyze hit get reduced to 2.5s on a dragon just because of resolve. There are already graze duration reduction, high defenses and affliction resistances.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Well, I have to admit I hadn't considered those downsides to resolve reducing hostile durations. I'm persuaded that, at the very least, it's not something worth trying to implement in the month leading up to launch.

 

I've needed to remind myself that even though POE1 Resolve was a dump stat for many characters, that just wasn't a big problem for the game. Not only was POE still fun, but I think if you polled the community about the game as a whole, buffing resolve would not have been a top five request. Which is not to say I wouldn't be excited about a Resolve solution. But a simple reversion would not be dispiriting or anything.

From a RPing standpoint as well Resolve still was one of the most important stats when it came to Dialogue in PoE, with the most checks out of all Attributes and I think often some of the highest. And I'm willing to bet the same will likely hold true in Deadfire.

 

I still favor my Injury expansion idea, but at this stage in the game it's likely far too large a change to properly implement and test in such a short amount of time. As well as implications I haven't thought of at all that might kill it. Which is probably true for a lot of these other suggestions. I think right now the best thing may be to just revert MIG and RES back to what they were and then take feedback upon release and do internal testing to see if there's a clearly better solution and then to take the time to implement it for a 2.0 update. I think everyone agrees that PoE at 2.0 and 3.0 is clearly a better game, but it also wasn't broken or inherently bad at 1.0 either. Not everything can be perfect and that's OK.

Edited by Enduin
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From a RPing standpoint as well Resolve still was one of the most important stats when it came to Dialogue in PoE, with the most checks out of all Attributes and I think often some of the highest. And I'm willing to bet the same will likely hold true in Deadfire.

It really shouldn't be. It was reported by Josh (and it is true in beta) that conversation checks refering to attributes are fairly rare. Game tends to checks skills (athletics, deplomacy, bluff, intimidation etc.) more often now.

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From a RPing standpoint as well Resolve still was one of the most important stats when it came to Dialogue in PoE, with the most checks out of all Attributes and I think often some of the highest. And I'm willing to bet the same will likely hold true in Deadfire.

It really shouldn't be. It was reported by Josh (and it is true in beta) that conversation checks refering to attributes are fairly rare. Game tends to checks skills (athletics, deplomacy, bluff, intimidation etc.) more often now.

 

Poor, poor Resolve. Can't say that's a bad change at all. 

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My suggestion:

 

Friendly and self targeting abilities get a +4% chance to crit (like +50% healing/duration) per point, or graze (-50% healing/duration) for each point missing

 

Issues adresed:

- No "stacking randomness" like random empower + lucky crit resulting in absurd damage

- Pretty straight forward and easy to understand: crits and grazes are already in the game

- Affects casters and supporters the most, who on the other hand usually don't profit as much from the deflection part of resolve

- From barbarians with frenzy, over constant recovery, to wizard self buffs: each class uses at least some of those abilities

- Support focused characters don't profit much from Perception, so they get an additional strong attribute choice

 

Possible issues:

- Still random, no reliable effect

- Overlap/synergy with duration bonus from int (exists for the random-empower mechanic too, but to a less obvious degree maybe)

- Buffs friendly and self targeting abilities over-proportionally

 

 

It's not perfect and one moth before the release probably too late to test, but I thought it might be worthy to share. Especially since there doesn't appear to be a perfect solution everybody agrees on.

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From a RPing standpoint as well Resolve still was one of the most important stats when it came to Dialogue in PoE, with the most checks out of all Attributes and I think often some of the highest. And I'm willing to bet the same will likely hold true in Deadfire.

It really shouldn't be. It was reported by Josh (and it is true in beta) that conversation checks refering to attributes are fairly rare. Game tends to checks skills (athletics, deplomacy, bluff, intimidation etc.) more often now.

 

I think I like this.

 

This is a bit oversimplified, but in PoE1 when you want a char who can talk well you are advised to play a tank (high res, int, per).

 

In PoE2 your attributes are mostly used for combat and scripted events ( use might to push a rock ), while skills determine how you interact with people and onjects.

I can understand that some people think it is realistic when stats determine dialogue (e.g. strong people talk different than intelligent people), but in this case I think player freedom (e.g. make an intimidating char who does not have tons of muscles ) is more importent than one possible way of realism while there are tons of different ways to do it and find a reason to call it realistic as well.

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My suggestion:

 

Friendly and self targeting abilities get a +4% chance to crit (like +50% healing/duration) per point, or graze (-50% healing/duration) for each point missing

 

Issues adresed:

- No "stacking randomness" like random empower + lucky crit resulting in absurd damage

- Pretty straight forward and easy to understand: crits and grazes are already in the game

- Affects casters and supporters the most, who on the other hand usually don't profit as much from the deflection part of resolve

- From barbarians with frenzy, over constant recovery, to wizard self buffs: each class uses at least some of those abilities

- Support focused characters don't profit much from Perception, so they get an additional strong attribute choice

 

Possible issues:

- Still random, no reliable effect

- Overlap/synergy with duration bonus from int (exists for the random-empower mechanic too, but to a less obvious degree maybe)

- Buffs friendly and self targeting abilities over-proportionally

 

 

It's not perfect and one moth before the release probably too late to test, but I thought it might be worthy to share. Especially since there doesn't appear to be a perfect solution everybody agrees on.

Sorry, but crits and grazes work only when you have a dice roll for hits ( acc - defense + 1d100). In PoE1+2 all friendly abilities are auto hits. If you change this it would be possible to miss a friendly char when you want to heal or buff them. This would be so frustrating to many players that I doubt any developer does ever consider it.

 

There are some games where you can get a critical heal (World of Warcraft is the only one I can remember at the moment), but I do not know this from any single player RPG that is similar to PoE.

If you graze or crit is determined by acc and the only attribute that influences acc is per.

If per gives acc to hostile abilities and res gives acc to friendly abilities (well, kind off) you make things more complicated without having a benefit from it.

 

Right now res gives a bonus to healing, so chars focused on healing will have lots of res. If res can give grazes and crits to healing it will buff this in two different ways. Chars with lots of res will have more healing and a high chance to heal critically on top of that while chars with low res would have less healing and a chance that their already lower healing gets halved.

This effect could be achieved easier if you just double the healing bonus from res ( 3% -> 6%). Now res would give a different bonus for friendly and hostile spells and you have to start balancing everything again.

 

So from my point of view this does not make much sense.

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Well from the way he put it, you'd only get the chance to miss friendly abilities if you dumped the stat. So you'd have to opt-in. I think it's a fairly decent solution, but the problem I see is that I don't see how that would be an appealing stat for martial classes.

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My suggestion:

 

Friendly and self targeting abilities get a +4% chance to crit (like +50% healing/duration) per point, or graze (-50% healing/duration) for each point missing

 

Issues adresed:

- No "stacking randomness" like random empower + lucky crit resulting in absurd damage

- Pretty straight forward and easy to understand: crits and grazes are already in the game

- Affects casters and supporters the most, who on the other hand usually don't profit as much from the deflection part of resolve

- From barbarians with frenzy, over constant recovery, to wizard self buffs: each class uses at least some of those abilities

- Support focused characters don't profit much from Perception, so they get an additional strong attribute choice

 

Possible issues:

- Still random, no reliable effect

- Overlap/synergy with duration bonus from int (exists for the random-empower mechanic too, but to a less obvious degree maybe)

- Buffs friendly and self targeting abilities over-proportionally

 

 

It's not perfect and one moth before the release probably too late to test, but I thought it might be worthy to share. Especially since there doesn't appear to be a perfect solution everybody agrees on.

Sorry, but crits and grazes work only when you have a dice roll for hits ( acc - defense + 1d100). In PoE1+2 all friendly abilities are auto hits. If you change this it would be possible to miss a friendly char when you want to heal or buff them. This would be so frustrating to many players that I doubt any developer does ever consider it.

 

There are some games where you can get a critical heal (World of Warcraft is the only one I can remember at the moment), but I do not know this from any single player RPG that is similar to PoE.

If you graze or crit is determined by acc and the only attribute that influences acc is per.

If per gives acc to hostile abilities and res gives acc to friendly abilities (well, kind off) you make things more complicated without having a benefit from it.

 

Right now res gives a bonus to healing, so chars focused on healing will have lots of res. If res can give grazes and crits to healing it will buff this in two different ways. Chars with lots of res will have more healing and a high chance to heal critically on top of that while chars with low res would have less healing and a chance that their already lower healing gets halved.

This effect could be achieved easier if you just double the healing bonus from res ( 3% -> 6%). Now res would give a different bonus for friendly and hostile spells and you have to start balancing everything again.

 

So from my point of view this does not make much sense.

 

 

First of all: I didn't talk about misses. Those would be frustrating, but I think the chance of grazes (that can only occur with RES < 10) is fair.

 

Then, just like with the change Josh mentioned, there would obviously be a return to might governing spell damage and healing. 

 

 

I was thinking about a roll of some kind, but yeah those should target a defense and it would require so many mechanical changes that'd be difficult to implement and could just make things complicated.

My suggestion would ideally work very much like the random-empowers, but only for friendly target spells to prevent random-empower + crit spikes and to give something specifically to support and self-buff characters, since I think there should be a niche for that in the attribute system.

Calling them "crits" and "grazes" is to prevent intervening with the empower mechanic and something new players immediately recognize, since everybody knows the concept of critical. If people confuse it with the accuracy based critical hits, call it empower again

 

 

 

Attribute thoughts for a priest with the proposed changes:

 

Might: good for damage and healing

Con: good for survivability

Dex: decent for all actions: damage, healing, debuffing and buffing

Per: decent for damage and debuffing

Int: good for buffing and debuffing, low occasional impact on damage/heal

Res: decent for survivability, healing and buffing

 

This would make Res somewhat of a counterpart to Per. Where Per is universally good for offensive actions, Res would be good for defensive and supporting actions. Since both influence a chance based system, I thought it might be elegant to have the critical-support-hit system.

 

Well from the way he put it, you'd only get the chance to miss friendly abilities if you dumped the stat. So you'd have to opt-in. I think it's a fairly decent solution, but the problem I see is that I don't see how that would be an appealing stat for martial classes.

 

It wouldn't be the must have stat for martial classes, but the deflection combined with chances of longer frenzies, swift strikes or better constant recovery is not so shabby I think.

Edited by Insidous
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not sure if this has been already been discussed but how about if RES affected grazes and crits? So that at 10 res you would have basic +/- 50% and then one point adds or decreases power of grazes and crits by lets say 1~2%? Would it be too OP or UP?

Edited by weeaboo
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