Suggestion: A new Cipher subclass 'Conduit'

[Ninjamestari]

I really like the Cipher fantasy and the flavor of the class, but I never really liked the soul-whip as a mechanic. What I'd like to see is a Cipher subclass that doesn't have soulwhip at all, but instead starts combat with full focus and slowly regenerates it over time passively by turning their own soul into a sort of conduit for power instead of relying on drawing power from the souls of others. This would, if nothing else, solve the problem of multiclassing a Cipher with a spellcaster that doesn't really do any physical attacks due to constantly casting spells.

[Kadayko]

You know how ciphers get their focus - by shredding and draining other peoples souls, it's not exactly a nice process. You want to drain yourself, you will have to pay with HP for your powers. 

[Ninjamestari]

You know how ciphers get their focus - by shredding and draining other peoples souls, it's not exactly a nice process. You want to drain yourself, you will have to pay with HP for your powers. 

 

That's how the conduit would be different, obviously. Although that concept you bring forth is interesting and I'd definitely like to see a Cipher spell/ability that could be used to gain some emergency power; say an ability that allows you to drain your own soul in an emergency situation that drains HP instead of Focus, or simply provides Focus at the cost of HP.

[Heijoushin]

Since we already have a monk that gains "wounds" by hurting others, having a Cipher with an alternative charging mechanism seems reasonable enough. However, "passive regeneration" doesn't seem too interesting. Won't most fights be over before he can regenerate?

[algroth]

Starting off a fight with full focus seems fairly strange too, since I think the powers of ciphers are kinda balanced around the fact that they cannot go all-in on their abilities as soon as combat starts, and have to build up on them over time. In fact it's the starting focus pool that was one of the aspects nerfed on release, given how strong the class turned out to be initially. I'm all for an alternative charging mechanism but I reckon having to charge your focus up would still be a necessity for the class to be balanced - unless there could also be a tradeoff in power for having immediate access to a fully charged focus too, but I'm not so sure about that.

[KDubya]

Starting off a fight with full focus seems fairly strange too, since I think the powers of ciphers are kinda balanced around the fact that they cannot go all-in on their abilities as soon as combat starts, and have to build up on them over time. In fact it's the starting focus pool that was one of the aspects nerfed on release, given how strong the class turned out to be initially. I'm all for an alternative charging mechanism but I reckon having to charge your focus up would still be a necessity for the class to be balanced - unless there could also be a tradeoff in power for having immediate access to a fully charged focus too, but I'm not so sure about that.

 

In PoE you had to balance Ciphers with reduced focus and focus gain or else they'd be blasting their most powerful powers all the time, while Wizards had to ration(unless they were narcoleptics) their spell usage to save for the next fight.

 

Now in DeadFire resting is for injuries only and everything is per encounter. Now Wizards can let loose with their most powerful spells every fight while Ciphers start a fight with maybe enough for a tier one power and then need several successful attacks to regain focus to get to where they could fire off a higher tier power.

 

If the design goal for Ciphers are an augmented damage dealer who occasionally drops a psionic power then they've nailed it. If instead Ciphers are supposed to frequently use their powers then they need some adjusting. I'd start with increasing the starting focus and maybe increase the rate of focus gain or make Biting and Draining Whip both available. They probably need to do something with Soul Annihilation as well.

[kierun]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95146-state-of-ciphers%E2%80%A6/ Might be relevant to this… Or it might not.

[Ninjamestari]

Since we already have a monk that gains "wounds" by hurting others, having a Cipher with an alternative charging mechanism seems reasonable enough. However, "passive regeneration" doesn't seem too interesting. Won't most fights be over before he can regenerate?

 

I like passive regeneration. Every single other class kit has some sort of "interesting" resource mechanism, but me, I like my mechanics simple. "Interesting" mechanics tend to be needlessly complicated and restricting without adding any real depth, while the simple eloquent solution is often the one that allows actually interesting decision making. Games these days try way too hard to be "interesting", and usually end up being the exact opposite. Deep and interesting is the result of simple, yet versatile mechanisms, not complicated. Just like complicated legislative systems break easily and serve more as a barrier to entry than anything else, and like overly complicated code usually generates an application that doesn't really work properly.

[Wormerine]

I like passive regeneration. Every single other class kit has some sort of "interesting" resource mechanism, but me, I like my mechanics simple. "Interesting" mechanics tend to be needlessly complicated and restricting without adding any real depth, while the simple eloquent solution is often the one that allows actually interesting decision making. Games these days try way too hard to be "interesting", and usually end up being the exact opposite. Deep and interesting is the result of simple, yet versatile mechanisms, not complicated. Just like complicated legislative systems break easily and serve more as a barrier to entry than anything else, and like overly complicated code usually generates an application that doesn't really work properly.

It’s not that passive regeneration is a bad idea (changers use it) but it’s a drastic change to how ciphers work. To make it work entire cipher skill tree would need to be rebalanced in order to work with changed “mana” mechanic.

[Osvir]

What if not regeneration, per say, but rather a different resource pool?

A Cipher with no Focus (heh, I kind of like the ring of that). Drawing power from.... the Health pool.

Subclasses do have some sort of drawback yes? Sounds like a pretty good drawback to me. And you'd also get the regeneration (in a sense) because it goes up to 100% after a fight.

Only problem would be to convert the Power Costs from Focus to Health. Would it be %? Or would it be the same? It'd allow a Cipher to use much more of their power if the costs were the same, although (and obviously) at a greater risk of reduced health. But then again, such a Multiclass Druid/Cipher, with regenerative effects, could be absolutely overpowered.

What if one drawback was "Can not use or be under the effect of Health restorative effects during combat". Maybe a bit too restrictive, but not very restrictive compared to the Subclass that can not use any potions (multiclass or single class).

Basically, the effect I'm implying, is a Subclass that would be able to cast many more abilities than a regular Cipher, in quick succession, without having to pool up resources with Soul Whip. Of course, would be more and more at risk of dying for each ability cast. Pump with high Constitution and you'd be good to go, maybe?

[blotter]

The Beguiler subclass already delves into non-attack-based Focus gain via Illusion (presumably Deception) powers that they use against enemies, though they're currently bugged from what I've heard.

 

To an extent, something could also be done without resorting to subclasses. For example, there could be an Echo power to transfer your Soul Whip to another party member (though there'd have to be significant downsides to both the cipher and companion, I suspect - perhaps the projected soul whip interferes with the companion's ability to heal and the cipher suffers increased incoming damage from enemy attacks due to the heightened sensitivity that this link requires, or maybe just have something along the lines of a lesser Pain Link effect that applies to the cipher and the companion) and/or a modal ability that disperses the cipher's soul whip, preventing them from using it themselves but allowing modest accumulation of Focus over time while enemies suffer ongoing damage/impairment from the cipher's powers in return.

[Ninjamestari]

Hey, stop trying to make my idea more interesting! I wanted it simple :D

 

EDIT: what I mean is that not having a soul whip and as such a lessened ability to gain focus would be a drawback enough. That being said, I like the Cipher that uses HP idea, you could also give that cipher some sort of vampiric abilities to compensate for the health loss. Another thing that could make it work would be to keep the health cost steep, but have the spells increase in power.

 

Oh, and 'another' way to do it would be to have both a Focus cost AND a HP cost in trade of just tremendously increased power. The point would be that every time you use an ability, it will cost you big time, but it will also be damn powerful. Balancing it might become a nightmare though.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Ninjamestari

[Katarack21]

Really sounds like you just want a melee-capable battle wizard with a mana bar.

[Ninjamestari]

Really sounds like you just want a melee-capable battle wizard with a mana bar.

 

Oh it's much simpler than that, I just want a mana bar ^^

 

EDIT: I do want it for a Cipher though, like I said, I like the Cipher fantasy.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Ninjamestari