Your Tiers List [Base Classes, Subclasses]

[Arranvin]

 

Unless I'm missing something that spreadsheet has at least one error in it. It lists hunting bow as having higher damage than a war bow. Fair enough the hunting bow may have a higher dps, but I'm fairly sure they don't have higher base damage!

 

I went through and took screenshots of everything, here's the screenshot for the hunting bow:

 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2435760853731766319/9A6A0F42A20F8F851569B018A31A111B84B56588/

 

Here's the screenshot for war bow:

 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2435760853731767001/D98C513B71B708525BFE9057966FA3B14C7D3520/

 

same character, base 10 might? Maybe it's an error in the game files, or maybe there's something I missed. More likely though it's that War Bow has higher penetration, whereas hunting bow has low pen but higher damage -- like GS vs the Estoc.

Fair play, I had missed something! I didn't realise that the damage balance between the bows had been altered, I was assuming that it was the same as Pillars 1. I wonder if the speed of the weapons has been adjusted along with their damage.

[Alot]

 

Won't arquebus be too slow to actually matter in combat, seeing what melee can do? (and doesn't arbalest > arquebus?)

 

I was wondering about Ranger/(swash or fighter) in a dual pistol setup (we are in Deadfire after all!) to maintain steady DPS and some flexibility (not being stuck in reload/recovery forever).

 

But the recent changes to penetration put me off, I don't know if one can make a viable pistol build now.

 

If this is correct

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsz3Hd_3HPs6RtE5YFTfSUzcPNRUY2h9yy733Jp5_50/edit#gid=0

arbalest isn't better than arquebus. But gun fanboys will cry a river anyway forcing Obsidian to nerf arbalest (again).

 

According to those numbers arbalest is better than arquebus. Higher DPS with the same amount of penetration.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Alot

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

According to those numbers arbalest is better than arquebus. Higher DPS with the same amount of penetration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

it's a very slight difference, though, and Arquebus would be slightly preferable for use with abilities, since it has a higher base damage.

 

I'd still like to see the Arquebus shifted over to Crushing damage type, I think that would make it a much more interesting choice.

[hilfazer]

 

According to those numbers arbalest is better than arquebus. Higher DPS with the same amount of penetration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

it's a very slight difference, though, and Arquebus would be slightly preferable for use with abilities, since it has a higher base damage.

 

I'd still like to see the Arquebus shifted over to Crushing damage type, I think that would make it a much more interesting choice.

 

 

Yes and it also has tighter damage range and is a mutha****ing gun.

It is also ignoring Arcane Veil unless Obsidian's The Great Unification desing philosophy removed it.

There's a reason guns are mentioned way, way more than xbows (or arquebuses than arbalests if we want to be specific).

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

According to those numbers arbalest is better than arquebus. Higher DPS with the same amount of penetration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

it's a very slight difference, though, and Arquebus would be slightly preferable for use with abilities, since it has a higher base damage.

 

I'd still like to see the Arquebus shifted over to Crushing damage type, I think that would make it a much more interesting choice.

 

 

Yes and it also has tighter damage range and is a mutha****ing gun.

It is also ignoring Arcane Veil unless Obsidian's The Great Unification desing philosophy removed it.

There's a reason guns are mentioned way, way more than xbows (or arquebuses than arbalests if we want to be specific).

 

 

 

Yeah, guns are more popular because they're cool, and they're situationally useful, but they have some real downsides that there doesn't seem to be much purpose for -- for example, the "blunted criticals" effect is unduly painful for little real purpose (and doesn't show up in that DPS chart, which is just a chart of base numbers). 

[SaruNi]

 

 

 

According to those numbers arbalest is better than arquebus. Higher DPS with the same amount of penetration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

it's a very slight difference, though, and Arquebus would be slightly preferable for use with abilities, since it has a higher base damage.

 

I'd still like to see the Arquebus shifted over to Crushing damage type, I think that would make it a much more interesting choice.

 

 

Yes and it also has tighter damage range and is a mutha****ing gun.

It is also ignoring Arcane Veil unless Obsidian's The Great Unification desing philosophy removed it.

There's a reason guns are mentioned way, way more than xbows (or arquebuses than arbalests if we want to be specific).

 

 

 

Yeah, guns are more popular because they're cool, and they're situationally useful, but they have some real downsides that there doesn't seem to be much purpose for -- for example, the "blunted criticals" effect is unduly painful for little real purpose (and doesn't show up in that DPS chart, which is just a chart of base numbers). 

 

 

Arbalest has blunted criticals too.

[Jinjifra]

What are people's thoughts on the stalker ranger? I didn't think much of it until I tried one on a melee ranger. The buff isn't huge, but if you are going to be in melee anyways it is basically free.

[Boeroer]

It's a nice candidate for a melee multiclass - like Stalker/Paladin for example. Lots of Full attacks, stacking defenses and bonus AR plus animal companion.

[Jinjifra]

I ran stalker/rogue it probably isn't the most optimized, but it was a fun build. The animal companion sets up sneak attack, tons of full attacks on both classes.

 

Is there a good write up somewhere for how DOT effects work? I was kind of curious how they work with crits.

[HiddenWings]

I'm curious about the Corpse-eater Barbarian, especially in a multiclass. +1 Rage cost seems like a very large drawback when a lot of powers are 1 rage baseline, and it would seem to fall flat in a big way vs. non-living enemies.

[KDubya]

I'm curious about the Corpse-eater Barbarian, especially in a multiclass. +1 Rage cost seems like a very large drawback when a lot of powers are 1 rage baseline, and it would seem to fall flat in a big way vs. non-living enemies.

 

I haven't tried it in the last beta. Things might have changed.

 

My issue with the Corpse eater is:

1. Berserker is just so much better. Extra penetration, and extra armor while raging is fracking great! The confusion is easy to get rid of and if not is just a minor inconvenience
2. Eating a corpse takes a long time. It was in the neighborhood of like seven seconds between activation and recovery during which you can be interrupted.
3. The heal wasn't that impressive.
4. What are you going to use the fury resource on after you eat a corpse? The best active I've seen is rage which costs you more and does less than what a Berserker gets. Spamming Barbaric blow with frequent corpse eating just looks to be a bad return on the investment of time, fury and damage output.

Maybe there are some higher level Barbarian abilities that are worth using frequently enough to justify the time investment needed for corpse eating, will have to see.

 

If the time was cut to like 3 seconds or less for activation and recovery combined it'd be a lot better and perhaps become competitive with a Berserker.

[SaruNi]

Corpse Eater might be interesting if they removed the 1/encounter limit on corpse eating. (Maybe they added that when they made it heal too?) Guess you can't eat your own summons? (Ogres should be edible but I don't remember if summoned ogres leave corpses.)

[dunehunter]

Corpse Eater might be interesting if they removed the 1/encounter limit on corpse eating. (Maybe they added that when they made it heal too?) Guess you can't eat your own summons? (Ogres should be edible but I don't remember if summoned ogres leave corpses.)

 

I don't remember corpse eating has 1/encounter limit in earlier beta. You mean in Beta 4 it is limited to once per encounter? Also all summons are not eatable because they not die, they disappear after being killed or duration expired. Also your pet is not eatable :D

 

Anyway I agree KDubya that currently it is not very economically wise to use that ability because the animation and recovery time is too long. If they can remove the recovery time it might be better. Imagining a corpse-earter use Heart of Fury and killed one or two enemy then use corpse-eating and then Heart of Fury again and again.

Edited April 23, 2018 by dunehunter

[SaruNi]

 

Corpse Eater might be interesting if they removed the 1/encounter limit on corpse eating. (Maybe they added that when they made it heal too?) Guess you can't eat your own summons? (Ogres should be edible but I don't remember if summoned ogres leave corpses.)

 

I don't remember corpse eating has 1/encounter limit in earlier beta. You mean in Beta 4 it is limited to once per encounter? Also all summons are not eatable because they not die, they disappear after being killed or duration expired. Also your pet is not eatable :D

 

Anyway I agree KDubya that currently it is not very economically wise to use that ability because the animation and recovery time is too long. If they can remove the recovery time it might be better. Imagining a corpse-earter use Heart of Fury and killed one or two enemy then use corpse-eating and then Heart of Fury again and again.

 

 

Just checked with a hired adventurer, Flesh Communion (corpse eating) is 2 / encounter currently.

Edited April 23, 2018 by SaruNi

[dunehunter]

 

 

Corpse Eater might be interesting if they removed the 1/encounter limit on corpse eating. (Maybe they added that when they made it heal too?) Guess you can't eat your own summons? (Ogres should be edible but I don't remember if summoned ogres leave corpses.)

 

I don't remember corpse eating has 1/encounter limit in earlier beta. You mean in Beta 4 it is limited to once per encounter? Also all summons are not eatable because they not die, they disappear after being killed or duration expired. Also your pet is not eatable :D

 

Anyway I agree KDubya that currently it is not very economically wise to use that ability because the animation and recovery time is too long. If they can remove the recovery time it might be better. Imagining a corpse-earter use Heart of Fury and killed one or two enemy then use corpse-eating and then Heart of Fury again and again.

 

 

Just checked with a hired adventurer, Flesh Communion (corpse eating) is 2 / encounter currently.

 

 

Ah thanks for verifying, it's interesting nerf because I don't see there are a lot players in beta playing corpse-eater so what's the point of nerfing

[Boeroer]

I guess when they used this class in their own inhouse gametesting week (where they could test the whole game and not just the short beta content) they may have discovered how OP it can be at higher levels. For abilites that cost more than 3 rage +1 isn't that much of a difference - but if you can repeatedly trigger Heart of Fury or other powerful stuff in a solo run via Flesh Communion it might be too good. Just wild guessing though...

Edited April 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

problem.

 

2 + 1 is not the same thing than 1 + 1.

 

1 + 1 = 2 x 1

 

So +1 is bad bad bad...

 

3 power source is a true non-sense. (true cost x3)

 

In all case +1 of the rage cost is FAR too much.

[Boeroer]

So... 0.5 or what?

Edited April 23, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

No, a new concept. +1 is definitely too much for low value (like 1 power source).

 

Or you stay with this concept, but you open the way to gain power source with your feature.

[Boeroer]

What do you mean? Flesh Communion does give you rage (power source). That's the main reason the abilities are more expensive in the first place.

[Madscientist]

Here is my list of all classes.

Its more about my personal preferences than their ingame power because I could not test all combinations.

If you include all subclasses there are over 1000 possible combinations of classes.

Until we know the high level abilities and we can test them in the game its hard to make a final judgement.

 

- Barbarian: frenzy, speed buff on kill and some other things are good for every char. I think they are good for multi classing. They seem good for multi classing. Will heart of fury and other high level stufff be good enough to use them as single class?

+ berserker: The best subclass. For power gamers thats the only barbarien choice. Probably I will not play them because I dislike a confused main char. Multi classing them with paladin can remove the downside completely later in the game.

+ corpse eater: +1 rage cost is a big penalty and eating takes forever. Bad choice.

+ mage slayer: halved buff duration ( including frenzy ) and being unable to use potions and scrolls is bad. I did not use a mage slayer in BG2 and I will not use it in PoE2.

 

- Chanter: Very useful support class, both single and multi class.

+ beckoner: More summons is great. Summons depend on character level, not power level so its best multi classed with another support class like paladin or priest to buff your army and other party members. great class.

+ skald: very good when multi classed with a melee class that can give lots of crits, like fighter. Offensive invocation have short casting time and can be very powerful. I like it.

+ trubadour: I would use this as single class. You can use your high level spells earlier. Use chants you want to re apply often, like the damage shield.

 

- cipher: Useful spells and more weapon damage, I like it.

+ ascendent: Being able to cast some high level spells in a row is nice. Multiclass with a class that increases weapon damage to use more low to mid level spells. When single class, I think once you cast reaping knives on another damage dealer you are in permanent ascendent mode.

+ beguiler: Gaining focus when casting on enemies that can be sneak attacked sounds interesting. I think its useful for some niche builds but I will not use it.

+ soul blade: Spend your focus for extra raw damage. Great when multi classed with another melee class.

 

- Druid: healing spells, damage spells, buffs and fighting like a beast? Why chose when you can have it all? Druids are great. I think I prefer the base class.

+ fury: I found the elemental form not very effective. You lose healing for more elemental penetration. I do not think I will play this.

+ lifegiver: Other players say their healing power is great. But I do not play on PotD so I guess the healing power of a normal druid should be enough. Not my first choice.

+ shifter: Good when multi classed with a melee class that lets you hit faster and harder. Your claws depend on character level, not power level.

 

- Fighter: Great choice for multi classing thanks to constant recovery and disciplined strikes. Lets wait for the top talents to see if single class is usefull.

+ black jacket: I did not switch weapons a lot in PoE1 and losing recovery feels bad. Not my favourite choice.

+ devoted: Absolutely the best choice, especially in later playthroughs when you know what equipment you can find.

+ unbroken: If you want to be a tank, this looks like a good choice. Multi class to get more defensive stuff from the other class.

 

- Monk: Hit fast and hard with your fists or with weapons. It looks like a good choice. I dislike that you have to take damage to use your powers, but there is a cure.

+ Helwalker: Do more damage and take more damage. Can be powerful when multi classed with another class that profits strongly from might, but this is not my playstyle.

+ Nalpazca: Generate wounds when stoned. Many players say its very powerful, but I do not like to take drugs all the time.

+ Shattered Pillar: Deal damage in order to deal even more damage. Thats a concept I like. This is my favourite monk class, even if Nalpazcas are more powerful.

 

- Paladin: Very useful class, especially when multi classed with something else. Lets wait for the top talents to see how useful single class is. All subclasses feel useful depending on your playstyle. I guess bleak walker are the best (FoD more damage + affliction)

 

- priest: They were masters of buffing in PoE1 and their spells are still powerful. I like that the different subclasses have different spells. I would multi class wael with a martial class, else go single class.

 

- ranger: A pet, more acc and bonusses for ranged weapons. Pet power depends on character level, so single or multi classing is OK.

+ sharpshooter: more penetration and crits, nice. In an earlier version of the beta you could have both bonusses at once, not depending on the distance. I reported this as bug, not sure if it is fixed.

+ Ghost heart: I did not play this, so I do not know how powerful the pet is compared to a normal pet.

+ stalker: You have to stay close to your pet. I think I will not play this one.

 

- rogue: Full attacks, invisibility and more damage? Count me in. Best multi classed I guess, because high level talents in PoE1 were not so great. usually I would prefer the base class.

+ assassin: More damage from stealth/invisibility but more fragile. I like to play this a multi class back row shooter/caster, but I am afraid to get in the middle of the action.

+ trickster: some mage spells but less sneak damage. I would prefer a combo of martial class + priest of wael or wizard. Trickster is not my prefered choice.

+ streetfighter: Some players say its very powerful, especially multi classed with barbarien. I dislike being flanked or on low health, so I will not play this.

 

- Wizard: They were a very powerful caster in PoE1 and they are still very powerful. The base wizard is usually best.

The subclasses lose 2 out of 5 spell shools which is really bad. I would only take a nature godlike evoker if I want a char who can do nothing but nuking and some self buffs.

 

In general I like the class system of PoE2 including multi classing a lot.

[theBalthazar]

What do you mean? Flesh Communion does give you rage (power source). That's the main reason the abilities are more expensive in the first place. 

 

 

Yes, but increase the "area" of effect of this ability. Atm it is very limited.

Edited April 23, 2018 by theBalthazar

[SaruNi]

Also can't eat companions. Too bad, otherwise you could get fresh hired adventurers to eat in difficult battles not involving kith/wilder/beasts....

[theBalthazar]

Also can't eat companions. Too bad, otherwise you could get fresh hired adventurers to eat in difficult battles not involving kith/wilder/beasts....

 

 

Ahahah awsome idea : p You lose money and one companion BUT you have a full refound of Power source !!

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by theBalthazar

[dunehunter]

So Carnage is not as bad I thought, it does trigger some of the prot on hit effect, for example if you pick Spirit Frenzy, your carnage will staggering enemies, which is pretty good imo. Haven't tested mage slayer yet, but they might change the spell disruption to be able to triggered by carnage.