Does the in-game damage record count auras, DoTs, etc.?

[Lampros]

Otherwise I am shocked that my Chanter has more damage than my Paladin - when the Paladin is using a harder hitting weapon and has TWICE as many hits. Or is the in-game damage record known to bug out? Something is really amiss.

 

Edit: The Chanter has only 4 more crits, so obviously that does not explain it either.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

No it doesn't. At least not reliably - for example Dragon Thrashed doesn't get logged and Come Soft Winds also didn't, but maybe that changed.

 

Does your chanter have more DEX and/or lighter armor than your paladin? Or maybe more MIG or PER?

[Lampros]

No it doesn't. At least not reliably - for example Dragon Thrashed doesn't get logged and Come Soft Winds also didn't, but maybe that changed.

 

Does your chanter have more DEX and/or lighter armor than your paladin? Or maybe more MIG or PER?

 

Then I don't get it. Armor is similar; Chanter has 6 more Dexterity, whereas Paladin has 7 more Perception. But again, twice more hits for the Paladin, and similar number of crits.

 

Speaking of so few hits for the Chanter, that is another thing I don't understand. Do Chanters stop attacking when they sing? It doesn't look that way either.

[Raven Darkholme]

6 more Dex earlygame is quite huge, dex loses it's value late game.

From the way the game (wrongly) records damage your chanter should be at a huge disadvantage over his actual damage, unless you use the invocation exploit., because his main damage the chant doesn't get counted properly. (same goes for stuff like disintegrate, basically every DoT, unless that got fixed and counts properly now.

[Lampros]

6 more Dex earlygame is quite huge, dex loses it's value late game.

From the way the game (wrongly) records damage your chanter should be at a huge disadvantage over his actual damage, unless you use the invocation exploit., because his main damage the chant doesn't get counted properly. (same goes for stuff like disintegrate, basically every DoT, unless that got fixed and counts properly now.

 

I have played the Chanter to level 5/4. So I certainly don't know any exploits I think perhaps DoTs and auras are now counts properly. Otherwise, I don't understand how I could have this kind of disparity. I guess it would be easy to test.

[Raven Darkholme]

I just looked up my stats from the 6 chanters and enemies I didn't auto attack, because lazy, still got recorded as killed.

This was not the case previously, so the DoT damage definitely counts now.

If you think your chanter is ahead now, wait till level 9.

[Boeroer]

Cool, that's good news!

[Lampros]

I just looked up my stats from the 6 chanters and enemies I didn't auto attack, because lazy, still got recorded as killed.

This was not the case previously, so the DoT damage definitely counts now.

If you think your chanter is ahead now, wait till level 9.

 

Thanks for the confirmation! Sometimes newbs stumble upon new things!

[Lampros]

Now I am tempted to re-start another group simply to compare Chanter DPS v. the true DPS heavy hitter (Rogue, Barbarian, et al.) DPS!

[Raven Darkholme]

If your looking at overall game damage nobody will top the chanter, especially not rogue who doesn't even have an AoE.

Barb might be stronger from level 11 on but since there's so much more damage from the chanter between 9 and 11 the barb will never catch up (it's not like the chanter stops doing damage all off a sudden. ).

[Lampros]

If your looking at overall game damage nobody will top the chanter, especially not rogue who doesn't even have an AoE.

Barb might be stronger from level 11 on but since there's so much more damage from the chanter between 9 and 11 the barb will never catch up (it's not like the chanter stops doing damage all off a sudden. ).

 

I will probably test them all though. I am a fantasy RPG fanatic, and it's been a while since I've come across a good one!

[MaxQuest]

I just looked up my stats from the 6 chanters and enemies I didn't auto attack, because lazy, still got recorded as killed.

This was not the case previously, so the DoT damage definitely counts now.

If you think your chanter is ahead now, wait till level 9.

Tracking kills and registering "direct" damage (which includes all DoTs and instances that do not go via attack resolution) are separate.

Tbh that's was one of the reasons I've made UPMod in the first place, as I wanted to check how good Dragon Trashed and Shinning Beacons are in practice, and compare total damage done at the end of the playthrough. (my party is lvl 8 atm)

[Raven Darkholme]

 

I just looked up my stats from the 6 chanters and enemies I didn't auto attack, because lazy, still got recorded as killed.

This was not the case previously, so the DoT damage definitely counts now.

If you think your chanter is ahead now, wait till level 9.

Tracking kills and registering "direct" damage (which includes all DoTs and instances that do not go via attack resolution) are separate.

Tbh that's was one of the reasons I've made UPMod in the first place, as I wanted to check how good Dragon Trashed and Shinning Beacons are in practice, and compare total damage done at the end of the playthrough. (my party is lvl 8 atm)

 

Are you absolutely certain this was always the case?

My first cipher solo (which was my first complete pt of the game, ofc this was shortly after release) didn't get credit for sky dragon and Cail, because he killed them with Disintegrate.

The same happened with my cipher in my first trio pt, which was shortly before WM1 released.

[Lampros]

 

I just looked up my stats from the 6 chanters and enemies I didn't auto attack, because lazy, still got recorded as killed.

This was not the case previously, so the DoT damage definitely counts now.

If you think your chanter is ahead now, wait till level 9.

Tracking kills and registering "direct" damage (which includes all DoTs and instances that do not go via attack resolution) are separate.

Tbh that's was one of the reasons I've made UPMod in the first place, as I wanted to check how good Dragon Trashed and Shinning Beacons are in practice, and compare total damage done at the end of the playthrough. (my party is lvl 8 atm)

 

 

Yup. I tested, and it doesn't seem to register Dragon Thrashed damage. But your "UPMod" does? Where can I download it? Is it the "unofficial patch mod" in your signature?

[Lampros]

Edit: Okay, I read through the UPMod thread, and it seems like a total overhaul - that I may not want at this stage, since I do not even know the base game well. But is it possible to make a separate damage meter mod?

 

Also, so what were the results? Did a Dragon Thrashed Chanter dominate the damage numbers as we expect?

[MaxQuest]

Are you absolutely certain this was always the case?

My first cipher solo (which was my first complete pt of the game, ofc this was shortly after release) didn't get credit for sky dragon and Cail, because he killed them with Disintegrate.

The same happened with my cipher in my first trio pt, which was shortly before WM1 released.

Always? Hard to say) I am certain in the following though:

- from v2.03 (when I started playing) till v3.06 DoT damage was not registered in "Total Damage" section on character's sheet.

- dealing damage is handled in two different functions: one for damage that was dealt immediately after hit roll resolution; and another for direct damage application. The second one is stripped of interruption checks, and various damage modifiers (it is also essentially located in the completely different class); it also has access to less stuff, that's why it's hard to fix Bartender's Ring.

 

As for killing/death events/listeners - I didn't inspect much.

 

Yup. I tested, and it doesn't seem to register Dragon Thrashed damage. But your "UPMod" does? Where can I download it? Is it the "unofficial patch mod" in your signature?

It does. And yup, it is it.

 

Okay, I read through the UPMod thread, and it seems like a total overhaul

A few bug fixes + 2 QoL improvements (faster potions consume animation + more reliable charm/dominate)

 

But is it possible to make a separate damage meter mod?

It is. Will need free time for this though.

 

Also, so what were the results? Did a Dragon Thrashed Chanter dominate the damage numbers as we expect?

My party is only level 8. 

So far I can only tell that Soft Winds of Death are only worth it on levels 1-4; while Shining Beacon indeed does a lot of damage (provided that you have maxed both MIG and INT).

Edited September 5, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Shouldn't Soft Winds get better at lvl 5 because the recitation is "more brisk" (=more dps)? Why 1-4?

Edited September 5, 2017 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

I might be wrong but I think v2.03 was  a pretty late patch, maybe even WM1?

 

At that point a lot of stuff got changed I guess.

For me I always associated kills not being recorded with damage not being recorded and honestly I don't understand why they fixed one mistake and left the other closely related one open.

[Lampros]

MaxQuest (difficult to selectively quote-reply to your post so...),

 

I am sure a lot of us would be grateful if you can release the damage meter as a stand-alone. So I am hoping you will have free time!

 

In the meantime, I absolutely cannot wait to hear what you find on the damage comparison. Right now I just turned level 9, and I can already tell my two Chanters are really speeding up kills now!

 

Obviously the Chanter v. non-Chanter DPS is of interest, but I am also interested what your overall findings will tell us about a tank Chanter v. a "DPS" Chanter. I think the conventional wisdom I have been reading is that Chanters do not enough DPS to go the full weapon damage route - especially because the Chanter is so fragile, and you are taking a massive survivability hit by giving up the shield. I can see this in my game, as the DPS Chanter has taken more damage than anyone by a lot, and he has also been knocked out the most. But the flip-side is that until level 9, the tank Chanter did 9500 or so damage, whereas the DPS Chanter did 20k. That's twice more DPS for half the game!

[Lampros]

MaxQuest,

 

Hmmm, just a few bug fixes? Then I might download it after all. Can I install it in the middle of a playthrough - or do I have to restart?

[MaxQuest]

Shouldn't Soft Winds get better at lvl 5 because the recitation is "more brisk" (=more dps)? Why 1-4?

Because on lvl 5, my dps'ers where getting access to the next rank of spells/powers. Also, while chanter was getting some defensive talents; others could get something like Blast/PenBlast/PenShots/BittingWhip/etc widening the gap.

 

I mean Soft Winds were great very early, while enemies had just 40-60 endurance; but my other damage contributing members have quickly catched up. On lvl 7 when I have stopped using this chant, my damage-oriented cipher already has dealt x5 the damage my chanter-tank (with maxed MIG/INT and SoftWinds as the only chant used) did.

 

and honestly I don't understand why they fixed one mistake and left the other closely related one open.

I suppose they didn't think about the DoT spells apriori; it looks like related logic was added later, and probably in a rush. Also could be implemented by another person.

 

But the flip-side is that until level 9, the tank Chanter did 9500 or so damage, whereas the DPS Chanter did 20k.

I would expect that two chanters of the same MIG/INT deal somewhat close amount of damage via Dragon Trashed chant (assuming it's the only one used). Sure there might be a difference in accuracy, but a simple mass paralyze is already providing a -40 reflex malus.

 

So it's either a sign of lack of stuns/paralyze effects; or there were damage-oriented invocations used by one chanter, but not another.

 

Hmmm, just a few bug fixes? Then I might download it after all. Can I install it in the middle of a playthrough - or do I have to restart?

Yeap. 6 fixed to be exact. And yes, you can install it in the middle of the run. Uninstalling it is safe as well; the saves are not affected.

[Boeroer]

Because on lvl 5, my dps'ers where getting access to the next rank of spells/powers. Also, while chanter was getting some defensive talents; others could get something like Blast/PenBlast/PenShots/BittingWhip/etc widening the gap.

 

I mean Soft Winds were great very early, while enemies had just 40-60 endurance; but my other damage contributing members have quickly catched up. On lvl 7 when I have stopped using this chant, my damage-oriented cipher already has dealt x5 the damage my chanter-tank (with maxed MIG/INT and SoftWinds as the only chant used) did.

Ah, simple misinterpretation. I thought you meant something like "it's only good from lvl 1-4 and then the chanter gets something better that you should take". I didn't get that you were comparing the chanter and his Soft Winds to the rest of the party.

 

I used it up to lvl 16 one time with maxed MIG and INT for maximum linger time and it's not that bad if you can stack some of them and refresh every 2 secs. It's a bit of AoE raw damage as a "byproduct" while your real focus is on the invocations.

[Lampros]

MaxQuest,

 

I will download it ASAP then. I just got to level 9 maybe an hour ago, so perfect timing!

 

Also, I think you may have misunderstood my point about the 2 Chanters. One of them is a tank, and the other is a "DPS." I built the tank along the specifications that Boerer outlined in the Chillfog build. (He even got the traveling merchant shield - in fact, Azzuro offered it twice, and I only bought it once.) The DPS guy was initially using a dual wield set-up, but I switched him to a pikeman when it became too difficult to keep him alive. And the result is that up till level 9, the DPS guy did more than twice the damage. So what I am interested in is how much Dragon Thrashed would close that gap between the tanking Chanter and the DPS Chanter in the next 8 levels. And obviously a lot of that depends on how much damage Dragon Thrashed really does

[Lampros]

Ignore.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Lampros

[Lampros]

Sorry. Never mind. I deleted Assembly-CSharp.dll instead of Assembly-CSharp.dll.pw.modified. LOL.