Question on utilities like scion of flame, etc

[veteran81]

As the title says, the utility talents that effect damage to an element, do they also increase the damage of lashes on weapons?

 

Thanks for the help!

[Boeroer]

Yes, they do.

 

They also work with weapons that do elemental damage primarily, boosting the weapon's base damage by 20%:

 

- Firebrand

- Stormcaller

- Bittercut

- Cadebald's Blackbow

- Kalakoth's Minor Blights

 

Maybe I forgot one...

 

Bittercut is a unique case because Spirit of Decay will boost both the weapon base damage as well as the lash damage (if you choose a corrosive lash). The other weapons are all summoned or soulbound ones which can't have lashes (except the burning lash from a chanter's phrase Myth Fyr - which also works with Scion of Flame).

 

However, those talents do NOT work with spells and abililies that do damage over time (DoT). So, things like Dragon Thrashed (chanter), Holy Radiance or Shining Beacon (priest), Enduring Flames (Goldpact Knight), Soul Ignition (cipher) and so on will not work with Scion of Flame for example. The druid's corrosion spells all suffer from this since they are all DoTs.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[Pallegina's Panties]

Wat. These talents not working on DoT abilities seems bafflingly stupid to the point I'd call it a bug...

 

Sigh. There goes my Chanter build down the trash, then.

[Boeroer]

Hater talents like Sanctifier or Beast Slayer also don't.

 

Dragon Thrashed is still one of the best abilities in the game.

[Pallegina's Panties]

Again, that seems like a bug or oversight in the coding moreso than something intended.

 

It really makes no sense.

[MaxQuest]

It's indeed a bug, because elemental/racial_slayer talent tooltips list no exceptions.

 

There is an unofficial fix though: link. And a related thread in tech support.

Edited July 27, 2017 by MaxQuest

[fortuntek]

For a list of weapons that do two damage types:

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Two_Damage_Types


Just Ctrl-F to the two types of your choice listed at the top.

[Boeroer]

A quick addition to what I said above:

 

The elemental "boosters" like Scion of Flame and such only work with weapons' base damage if the elemental damage type of the weapon comes FIRST. In that case the talent also works with the second damage type (if there is one), it doesn't matter which kind of damage gets applied in the end. You will have a +20% dmage boost for both damage types.

 

So, for example:

• Bittercut gets a +20% damage boost on its base damage from Spirit of Decay - because it does corrode/slash (NOT slash/corrode).
• Durance's Staff does NOT get a +20% damage boost from Scion of Flame - because it does crush/burn (not burn/crush)
• Starcaller gets a +20% damage boost from Heart of the Storm - because it does shock/pierce
• Curoc's Brand does NOT get a +20% damage boost from Scion of Flame because it does pierce/burn

It's silly, but it works like this.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[GuyNice]

A quick addition to what I said above:

 

The elemental "boosters" like Scion of Flame and such only work with weapons' base damage if the elemental damage type of the weapon comes FIRST. In that case the talent also works with the second damage type (if there is one), it doesn't matter which kind of damage gets applied in the end. You will have a +20% dmage boost for both damage types.

 

So, for example:

• Bittercut gets a +20% damage boost on its base damage from Spirit of Decay - because it does corrode/slash (NOT slash/corrode).
• Durance's Staff does NOT get a +20% damage boost from Scion of Flame - because it does crush/burn (not burn/crush)
• Starcaller gets a +20% damage boost from Heart of the Storm - because it does shock/pierce
• Curoc's Brand does NOT get a +20% damage boost from Scion of Flame because it does pierce/burn

It's silly, but it works like this.

Is there any chance this could be fixed via modding? This weird interaction always irked me. Would be nice to have an interesting Staff build. It also annoys me that Durance doesn't get an accuracy bonus for Staves via the deity talent. It really doesn't match the lore very well.

[Boeroer]

If you give Durance a soulbound or summoned weapon, he can use his Magran talent (+10 ACC with swords and arquebus) on it.

 

So Obsidian should have made his staff soulboud to him after the release of WMI (that's when they gave the staff additional burn damage) or give him a unique ability to summon his personal quarterstaff. I mean it's a piece of the godhammer - why not? It would also have been possible to put a spell binding which summons a weapon on the staff itself - like Forgemaster's Gloves have.

This way Durance would have a staff that doesn't look too fancy but could summon a more powerful version of it if he wishes. Would totally fit the lore and dialogue lines of his quest.

 

Besides this: why is it a staff anyway?

Edited August 1, 2017 by Boeroer

[Blades of Vanatar]

If you give Durance a soulbound or summoned weapon, he can use his Magran talent (+10 ACC with swords and arquebus) on it.

 

So Obsidian should have made his staff soulboud to him after the release of WMI (that's when they gave the staff additional burn damage) or give him a unique ability to summon his personal quarterstaff. I mean it's a piece of the godhammer - why not? It would also have been possible to put a spell binding which summons a weapon on the staff itself - like Forgemaster's Gloves have.

This way Durance would have a staff that doesn't look too fancy but could summon a more powerful version of it if he wishes. Would totally fit the lore and dialogue lines of his quest.

 

Besides this: why is it a staff anyway?

Must of been a big bomb if it was intended to kill a God. A splinter of it could of been stave sized.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

If you give Durance a soulbound or summoned weapon, he can use his Magran talent (+10 ACC with swords and arquebus) on it.

 

So Obsidian should have made his staff soulboud to him after the release of WMI (that's when they gave the staff additional burn damage) or give him a unique ability to summon his personal quarterstaff. I mean it's a piece of the godhammer - why not? It would also have been possible to put a spell binding which summons a weapon on the staff itself - like Forgemaster's Gloves have.

This way Durance would have a staff that doesn't look too fancy but could summon a more powerful version of it if he wishes. Would totally fit the lore and dialogue lines of his quest.

 

Besides this: why is it a staff anyway?

Must of been a big bomb if it was intended to kill a God. A splinter of it could of been stave sized.

 

It was made before the Godhammer I believe, the impression I got is that each of 12 Magran priests were given a staff to aide them in the creation of the Godhammer in some way.  Could be totally wrong though and I may just be reading into things that aren't there.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, I didn't express myself properly. I didn't mean that the staff was part of the detonating device itself but a part of the whole "Godhammer process". But since it is hinted that the staff used to be more powerful I thought it would be neat if the now weaker staff could summon a stronger version of itself. Like a temporary transformation.

[veteran81]

Yeah, I didn't express myself properly. I didn't mean that the staff was part of the detonating device itself but a part of the whole "Godhammer process". But since it is hinted that the staff used to be more powerful I thought it would be neat if the now weaker staff could summon a stronger version of itself. Like a temporary transformation.

Sorry if this a double post, doing this from my iPhone so bleh...

 

One last question for you brother. As far as secondary damage goes, I noticed the in game combat log will say something like you did 28 damage, but if you hover the mouse over it, it'll show day like another 10 lash damage, and then 8 sneak attack damage. So the total damage done is not 28 but actually 46 damage yes?

 

Just curious because I always notice the numbers over head are higher then what is posted in the log, but asking to validate. Thanks for your reply eventually brother!

[Boeroer]

The numbers over the heads are the numbers in the combat log combined. So if you do 20 physical damage and 10 lash damage the number that pops out of the enemy's head will be 30.

 

Lashes get calculated like so: you hit the enemy and the damage roll is done. Let's say you roll 28 crush damage. The enemy has 8 DR against everything. So 20 crush gets through.

Lashes will now get calculated with the pre-DR damage (!), so 28 * 0.25 = 7 burn damage. Lash damage has to overcome 1/4 of enemy's DR. So in this case 8/4=2. 7-2 = 5. You overall damage will be 20 crush + 5 burn. The number that pops out of the enemy's head will be 25.

 

Lashes are more powerful than mere base damage mods like Sneak Attack or Savage Attack or Two Handed Style because of this mechanic.

 

Sneak Attack damage will be calculated within the initial crush damage roll - like all other base damage mods like Savage Attack and so on. It's nothing that goes seperately. It helps overcoming enemies' DR a lot. Base damage is the weapon's unenchanted damage without any modifier. So Sneak Attack adds the same amount of damage bonus to a normal sword as to a superb sword - while a lash will add more damage the better the weapon is.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Boeroer