Pls help me pick an endgame weapon for my ranged rogue ;)

[B4nJ0]

So... I'm basically done with my paladin potd run.

 

Playing WM2 for the 1st time around was pretty fun, and the possibility to dual a  couple of bittercut on a monster bleak walker definitely delivered.

 

I went with fixed companion, nothing high technology, Kama off tanking with tidefall boots of faith and sanguine, sagani went in order with a rushed persistence into stormcaller into twin sting, durance tried to deliver has a sup priest with his rather gimped stats and aloth blasted from the back.

 

 

Now, I would like to do one last run with a neutral stoic character (ok, I can't say no to gift of the machine and effigy, way to greedy to be a good person in RPGs)  to prepare another save for Pillar 2, before quitting the game for a bit 

 

I will try an old favorite of mine that I have never had the time to play: a melee ranger. Nothing to high technology, tidefall with a stag companion to stun luck in melee while triggering predatory sense.

 

This will also be a Trial of Iron run, since I have done upgraded bounties and drakes right now and I hope my memory will not betray me in the hardest fight.

 

 

I will stick with a 5man party (I consider the pet the six person for no real reason  ) and I will go with the following team, which I will call heraldAbuse given that, imo, after bittercut little savior seems the best items to duplicate, or at least I want to try this engine at least once:

 

Melee ranger (main)

Tank paladin (outwork buckler)

Priest with little savior

another utility second line char with 2nd little savior (I think that "herald" stacking make no sense at all since it's an aura but, well, I will go for it and I'm kinda confortable with a druid in the laneup and I don't want to cheese 2x priests)

the totally next level nature godlike DPS blaster of @boeroer with a second chance item to be a little safer 

 

I'm pretty confortable with this party, blast mage+support priest+paladin are the 3 char I played the most, plus druid it's kinda close and the hunter seems pretty easy to use.

 

This leave me with my 5th char: a ranged rogue. The main reason behind this is the idea to have it has a twink of the hunter since a rushed persistence will trigger predatory sense way before tidefall and this trio (count the stag in) will play has a single unit early game. Also, the pretty high mechanics of the rogue will let my mage train into survival (that I think is a big plus for mantle of the dying boar plus dangerous instruments) and it's a low micro management char later in the game when serious fight happens and you have to focus a lot on casters.

 

What I would like to know is IF there are better options for late game on the rogue, when the hunter will be auto suifficient and I will use my archer has the single DPS of the party for high priority targets.

 

Options that comes to mind(thx to @maxquest for this amazing linesheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WcgHNkpy-JDuJUhPe4fJc6yilxZaaDET1DKwch19yK4/edit#gid=0):

 

-war bows: I think that the rain of godalth field is amazing, but comes really late. A good midgame option seems to be cloudpiercer , but I don't like the dozens talent at all and I dunno if I can take the bow in any other way (I will try to kill the dozens with an old save to check it, but no idea atm, even if that could be the best solution)

-Twin Sting: meh, I don't like soulbound items (no durgan enchant) plus I don't think it has big enough rewards for a rogue

-Others options before cloudpiercer in mid game... A gun?

 

I left the game when rogue was over dpsing with easy a ranged ranger but, since both classes are kinda single dimensional (cit.), ranger gained a lot from uniques expansion items while the rogue seemed kinda untouched. I would love to know if there is some new option avaible that I don't see atm or if this is still the best I can use for him 

help is much appreciated! ^_^

 

edit: can some1 edit "rouge in the title?" not my best day on forums, I have to admit

 

edit 2: fixed some errors in the bows names, I'm pretty bad with names in general and I did a couple of typos here and there

Edited May 24, 2017 by B4nJ0

[Blades of Vanatar]

Warbow - Borresaine. You get rather early and it can be an endgame item. Stun is excellent and you should crit ALOT. Cloudpiercer is meh.... Can't go wrong with Borresaine. Stunning enemy spelllcasters and or enemy melee heavy hitters can be a HUGE advantage.

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah stunweapons on critbuilds all the way.

[MaxQuest]

edit: can some1 edit "rouge in the title?" not my best day on forums, I have to admit

You can do it yourself, if you'll try to edit first post using Full Editor

 

Priest with little savior

What stat spread does your priest have?

Also who are your lore guys?

 

Also, the pretty high mechanics of the rogue will let my mage train into survival (that I think is a big plus for mantle of the dying boar plus dangerous instruments)

I am not sure that Dangerous Implements affect Blast damage. Can anyone confirm?

 

What I would like to know is IF there are better options for late game on the rogue, when the hunter will be auto suifficient and I will use my archer has the single DPS of the party for high priority targets.

That spreadsheet is just for ciphers because rogues have Deathblows which can greatly askew the results, plus they can make great use of Wounding, since they don't care about focus generation.

 

I still think that Persistence is probably the best all-around ranged weapon for rogue. But you could also start the fight with 2 blunderbuss shots, specifically:

v1. if your priest is slow:

- start with Crippling Strike via Silver Flash (and you already have 2 SA conditions on target)

- quick switch to Lead Spitter and use Runner's Wounding Shot

- quick switch to Persistence

 

v2. if your priest is faster than rogue:

- Painful Interdiction

- start with Crippling/Blinding Strike via Scon Mica's Roar

- quick switch to Lead Spitter and use Runner's Wounding Shot

- quick switch to Persistence

 

Another late game variant could be:

- main set: golden gaze vs low-DR enemies

- off set: persistence vs high-DR enemies

 

Others options before cloudpiercer in mid game... A gun?

For early game, arquebuses and pistols could work quite well. You are not going to crit a lot anyway, so their -0.3 to crit is negligible. And viceversa majority of rogue strikes are full-attacks that add 0.25 to damage coefficient, so you would want to dual-wield or.. use firearms.

 

Also, Persistence. Again Persistence You can find it very early, and afaik it has Damaging 3 (+0.45 dmg, +4 acc) from the start.

 

Borresaine is good as well. Stunning is great if you have decent crit-rate. This warbow will result in slightly less dps compared to Persistence, but on the other hand you will take less damage. Although (iirc) you can't dump INT in this case, as you will get shorter stuns, while with Persistence - the lower INT - the better.

Edited May 24, 2017 by MaxQuest

[B4nJ0]

Thx everyone for the answer. The idea of using 2x war bows to deviate from the standard persistence is interesting, 20% speed bow in late game to immune things and stun bow to cc.

 

I have used persistence on a rogue more then once already  since that build was the best ranged single target DPS build in a party pre WM, IMO. I was just hoping that would have spawned a better technology given 2 expansions. In fact persistence has been always my "rushed" weapon of choice since, even in PoTD, you can take it right after ced nua, if you are accepting the fact that fighting ogres in lvl 3 is gonna require you to rest quite a bit at lvl 4/5 (and re-run to an inn at least once).

 

@maxquest

 

I think that the priest will be as fast as the rogue, I will min/max the blaster for sure (3con/ris) and priest and rogue are gonna be a little less min/maxed for RPG reason (I think something like 6 to 8 con and 8 ris). Druid will be the 3rd melee when needed, since they're spells are generally less powerfull I'm more then confortable with the idea of building a "tanky" one with plate (and for tanky I mean 8 con 10 per or something on those line ).

 

Quick switcthing is a good idea, but, as I said, I would love to skip one char micro in late game (I do play with autopause on basically for everything in trial of iron so, actually, is not a big deal, but that would slow my overhall run quite a bit).

 

Honestly I don't know about the interaction between dangerous implement and blast, but I do find that build kinda funny no matter what so I'm gonna go for it. As a side note, that's why I chosed the stag over wolf. It's a bit rarer, but I liked the idea of a little extra AoE auto atk to support the mage for trash fights.

 

I will edit with the stats of the team when I will be done with the creation of the party, still got a couple of bounties left on the dual bittercut pally

Edited May 24, 2017 by B4nJ0

[MaxQuest]

- The reason I was asking about priest stats is: priest can buff and offtank or buff and deal damage (during bounties and boss fights).

 

- Just noticed that you are going to use Nature Godlike for your wizard. In that case Dangerous Implements talent is indeed fine. Don't let Talons' Reach or Ooze Spit one shot you through ))

 

- Ah, so you will have a druid) I was thinking that your party is lacking on crowd-control department. And if your rogue is low-INT you definitely want a cipher or druid.

Edited May 24, 2017 by MaxQuest

[B4nJ0]

That's indeed the reason since I like to play druid. It's not a powerfull class (way less then priest or cipher), but the aoe cc that can provide is nice, plus it can off tank easily then a priest. Also, I think that priest damage potential in late game is just too good to pass up so they end up to be pure casters in my runs (I had enough Durance off tank to be done with the tanky variation).

 

I found pretty nice your idea of quickswitch Scon Mica's Roar into Runner's Wounding into Persistence. 

 

This would also give me a good opportunity to play an Aumaua over yet another elf since I tend to end pretty elf flooded into my ranged department. Instead, picking nature godlike mage + aumaua rogue + elf priest would resolve this problem for good while not gimping the team.

 

Ok, let's go for quickswitch ^_^

Edited May 24, 2017 by B4nJ0

[Boeroer]

I don't know if it was already said, but Runner's Wounding Shot doesn't work well with blunderbusses, but very well with arquebuses.

[B4nJ0]

Ok, party rolled, considering I will avoid stat rerolls for the whole run. Give me my 2 cents:

 

Banjo - Main - Ranger (stag companion) -  Male Moon godlike - Colonist (maxing survival atm), Living Sands

 

Might 15

Cos 9

Dex 19

Per 10

Int 15

Ris 10

 

Marked Pray

Cruel Comanion

Predator's Sense

 

I'm tempted to play it ranged for the 1st few levels, building up the companion feats till he will be ready to enter melee.

 

I rushed lvl 3, then I builded a full lvl 2 party since I had enough money for it (sell all the stuff at 1st camp).

 

Tòer - Paladin (Darcozzi) - Male Coastal Aumaua - Colonist, Old valhalla

 

Mig 20

Cos 10

Dex 7

Per 7

Int 19

Ris 15

 

Light of hands

Weap and Shield

 

Edited, was a pale elf at the beginning (mainly to pick 5 different races) but aumaua are just better since, after int, mig is the second best stat for a paladin and an aumaua can have 20mig/19int at the start. Plus the racial seems decent and this is the very 1st time I'm gonna play a coastal Aumaua

 

Jin - Druid (stag form) - Female Wild Orlan - Colonist, Aedyr

 

Mig 14

Cos 9

Dex 15

Per 10

Int 15

Ris 15

 

Weap and Shield

 

Per 10 on a CC seems very greedy, but It's always hard to roll an offtank caster, IMO. At the very least this guy will run with Gauntlet's of Accuracy all run long. Stag form is there for the ranger theme (and extra saves).

 

edit: I noticed that Aedyr have small shield and sabre at the creation which is AMMAZZZING. Go for aedyr or you will fail (unless u care about maxing a single stat on your druid!)

 

Flear - Rogue - Female Insular Aumaua - Scientist, Living Sands

 

Mig 21

Cos 7

Dex 18

Per 15

Int 10

Ris 7

 

Crippling Strike

Quickswitch

 

Given the quickswitch nature of the build maybe switching dex with per would work better, but I'm kinda newbie with quickswitch builds so I will go for what I feel safer.

 

Farsìr - Priest (Magran) - Male Wood elf, Colonist, Old Valhalla

 

Mig 16

Con 7

Dex 19

Per 10

Int 19

Ris 7

 

Interdiction

 

It's an elf and will have gauntlet's of accuracy always on (plus paladin aura).  10 per seems okish for a non min/maxed build

 

Sink - Mage - Male Nature Godlike - Colonist, Old valhalla

 

Mig 18

Con 3

Dex 19

Per 15

Int 20

Ris 3

 

Blast

 

Remember to level up Aloth to 3, pick up all usefull spells and then choice accordingly the spells on your actually rolled wizard for max value  I'm broken at exactly 91 copper but, aside outworn buckler and blunting belt, investing your money on wiz spells in ch1 is the best thing you can do IMO.

Everybody and her mom is maxing survival till new order while the rogue is on mechanics, and sleeping from day 19 to day 17 to take the stalker's Torc in the inn was pretty boring but now the group it's officially ready!

 

what do you think of the party? ^_^ Will actually start playing it tomorrow, hope it's good enough for a trial of iron run

Edited May 25, 2017 by B4nJ0

[Boeroer]

4 quick gunshots/arbalest/crossbow shots with Sneak Attack is pretty mean at the beginning of the game. Grab the Disappointer and enchant it with Accurate I!

Edited May 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[B4nJ0]

4 quick gunshots/arbalest/crossbow shots with Sneak Attack is pretty mean at the beginning of the game. Grab the Disappointer and enchant it with Accurate I!

 

I know that trick and thx for the call, but would you give up on 150gp value at the very beginning? seems close, but I'm confortable enough with act 1 to go for the max cash stack for lvl 2 companions and +1 mage spell learnable from aloth right on the bat (greedy greedy me) and endure the luck of gun for a bit

Edited May 24, 2017 by B4nJ0

[Boeroer]

It's not that much money if you have Gaun's Pledge to sell. But yes, an arbalest is even better for quich switching. 

[B4nJ0]

Pretty much <3 Boeroer, the only guy that can go for min/max calls and then meta himself for no real reasons (aside making you feel a newbie 90% of the time ) and yes, I'm addicted to the sell value of Gaun's Pledge at the very beginning in party play 

till looking for feedbacks on my group, seems childish but it's gonna be an Iron run wihout cheers so I would love some feedback on my party. No rush, I just hope to get everything right

Edited May 25, 2017 by B4nJ0

[Kaylon]

Opening with Runner's Wounding Shot and an arbalest/arquebus can one shot many enemies, then you can switch to Persistence. The ranger can do the same with Wounding Shot and Apprentice's Sneak attack (x2) and then switch to melee.

 

PS. If your ranger dies too often you can replace Tidefall with Drawn in Spring + Little Savior.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Kaylon

[Boeroer]

Yeah. Once you get Drawn in Spring you could retrain to weapon & shield if you want. Maybe also pick Badgradr's Barricade. Did you know that Thrust of Tattered Veils (procs on crit-bash) works with Driving Flight? :D

[B4nJ0]

Yeah just yday I was thinking about Drawn + little savior or, even, 2x drawn for the lul.

 

But I think I will be fine with a moongodlike with boots of faith + sanguine, ranger has 20 base  deflection and 5 health per endu which is nice. Honestly I had to check, I was thinking for some reason he would have better def then cipher/druid but for an off tank it's kinda ok I guess.

 

For some reason Drawn always lacked potential for me. Even in vanilla, deviating from  sabre was kinda hard and, now, the fact that drawn has only 1 unique enchant really push her into "meh" weapons group since the quality it's fixable for a given weapon, while unique ench aren't. Don't forget that a ranger can still deliver quite a punch, even in melee, with tidefall thx to an almost free 1.20 atk speed and +50%dmg. I can't say the same while holding drawn.

Edited May 25, 2017 by B4nJ0

[MaxQuest]

I don't know if it was already said, but Runner's Wounding Shot doesn't work well with blunderbusses, but very well with arquebuses.

Hmm, afaik peddroelm has tested it, and each pellet was triggering it's own DoT.

 

Yeah, unlike wounding it is not based on pre-DR damage, but rather post-DR, but it's gonna be fired using Lead Spitter (so at least 7 DR penetration; or up to 15 with penetrating-shot/vambraces); plus Deathblows. I would expect it to hurt...

Not to mention that blunderbuss shots are mainly aimed at low-DR enemies; and after quick-switching through them, rogue switches to Persistence vs the few tough enemies remaining.

 

what do you think of the party?

Your rogue, priest and wizard seem fine to me.

 

I would advice to increase the ranger's MIG at the cost of INT through, provided that you will be using Tidefall (wounding) and Wounding Shot.

And probably the 18/13/7/7/19/14 spread for your paladin. And hey he could be a moon godlike or wild orlan as well. It would be a bit more optimal than pale elf choice because Elemental Endurance is mainly great for squishier characters which you'd like to get less damage from shades or to attract less of their attention altogether. But if you'd like one of a kind, other variants are coastal aumaua and mountain dwarf.

Edited May 25, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

But the point about the ranger is that he keeps up DoTs all the time for his pet's Predator's Sense and he also uses Consecrated Ground to heal it. Lower INT is not that helpful here I'd say. Sure, lower INT will apply the wounding damage a bit faster, but maybe that's not what counts in this case.

 

Edit: damn smartphone auto correction makes "health it" from "INT", sorry...

Edited May 25, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

There must be a sweet spot somewhere

 

Wounding Shot has a base duration of 6s.

Wounding (weapon enchant) has a base duration of 5s.

Consecrated Ground heal for 10.6 endurance per second for 20 base seconds.

 

A ranger (with 19 DEX, plate, no durgan enchants, no gloves) makes one attack in 82.6 frames (2.75s). This means that 12 INT is enough to keep wounding DoT on target even if you only graze. And there is also Wounding Shot and (optional) Envenomed Strike. That's why I was thinking of 17-18 MIG and 13-12 INT.

 

The total healing provided via Shod-in-Faith will be greater with higher INT through, as point of INT adds 5% versus 3% from MIG.

For MIG + INT = 30, it would be:

- 10 MIG / 20 INT => 10.6 x 30 = 318

- 12 MIG / 18 INT => 11.236 x 28 = 314.608

- 13 MIG / 17 INT => 11.554 x 27 = 311.958

- 15 MIG / 15 INT => 12.190 x 25 = 304.75

- 17 MIG / 13 INT => 12.826 x 23 = 294.998

- 18 MIG / 12 INT => 13.144 x 22 = 289.168

Edited May 25, 2017 by MaxQuest

[B4nJ0]

Yeah, the ranger seemed hard to balance without playtesting.

 

Int is there "just" for stun lock, wounding, sanguine and boots of faith. Not so much but the build around demands decent int, IMO. Might it's important for raw DPS and boots of faith healing but, honestly, damage it's the last of your problems in a party like this (I prob end with too much dps at the cost of cc )

 

Talking about paladin, indeed moongodlike it's just the best race you can pick for a paladin. The passive is just retarded, plus the fact that has up to 19 basic int  that is the best paladin stat on top of the racial. I Just "ban" more then 1 moongodlike for balance reason, if you want to min max going for the super cheese moon godlike front and elf backline is just the best, races are really bad balanced in PoE.

 

Dwarf and Aumaua come to second for the +2Might (which is the second most important stat after int) for an up to 20naked might. Finally dwarf make sense to counter the 2x bittercut malus and I was tempted to go for it in my last run with a bleak walker main but, to be honest, I have NEVER played anything else aside moon godlike has a main now that I think  of it

 

I guess I could switch pale elf for a Coastal Aumaua which is, also, a race I have never played and keep the wild orlan druid that, on a side note, I think fit pretty from a race/class combo rpg pow (plus orlan are bad paladin if you want to max out both int and mig, given -1 mig)

 

7dex/7per seems also better, given the ced nua dex rest and the fact that this guy will wear lilith's shawl all the run for a flat 10/10. It was, actually, my standard go to stat attribution for an s/s paladin. My memory is that bad I guess

 

Nothing that matter too much, an s/s paladin is just unkillable even if it's not the main and you have more stats that you could really use in the end. Rather then overkilling con you can strongly consider dex for better animation which is, always, super important on char with a lot of ability each fight.

 

It's counter interactive but it's rather useless if your caster ends up with 30+dex and then your paladin needs half an hour to purge the random cc your caster has eaten

Edited May 25, 2017 by B4nJ0

[B4nJ0]

There must be a sweet spot somewhere

 

Wounding Shot has a base duration of 6s.

Wounding (weapon enchant) has a base duration of 5s.

Consecrated Ground heal for 10.6 endurance per second for 20 base seconds.

 

A ranger (with 19 DEX, plate, no durgan enchants, no gloves) makes one attack in 82.6 frames (2.75s). This means that 12 INT is enough to keep wounding DoT on target even if you only graze. And there is also Wounding Shot and (optional) Envenomed Strike. That's why I was thinking of 17-18 MIG and 13-12 INT.

 

The total healing provided via Shod-in-Faith will be greater with higher INT through, as point of INT adds 5% versus 3% from MIG.

For MIG + INT = 30, it would be:

- 10 MIG / 20 INT => 10.6 x 30 = 318

- 12 MIG / 18 INT => 11.236 x 28 = 314.608

- 13 MIG / 17 INT => 11.554 x 27 = 311.958

- 15 MIG / 15 INT => 12.190 x 25 = 304.75

- 17 MIG / 13 INT => 12.826 x 23 = 294.998

- 18 MIG / 12 INT => 13.144 x 22 = 289.168

 

 

Pretty much the fact that gives me trouble is that consacrated grounds benefict more from int rather then mig per se, plus I prefear longer duration rather then power healing. I'm not so worried about refreshing dots/stun on target given durgan ench and 1.15 gloves (I'm addicted to fixing random drops which means, basically, max number of gloves of accu early and gloves of speed late ).

 

Plus, this guy is a moon godlike so AoE is also important, another big  prop for INT and, with the rogue, this will be the only char without a ring of overseeing since I guess it's not worth the item slot for only 2 effects.

 

edit: switched in the aumaua paladin, also discovered that Aedyr druid has sabre and small shield for free, so I went for it while I created the pally

Edited May 25, 2017 by B4nJ0

[BBMorti]

That's indeed the reason since I like to play druid. It's not a powerfull class (way less then priest or cipher), but the aoe cc that can provide is nice, plus it can off tank easily then a priest. Also, I think that priest damage potential in late game is just too good to pass up so they end up to be pure casters in my runs (I had enough Durance off tank to be done with the tanky variation).

 

I found pretty nice your idea of quickswitch Scon Mica's Roar into Runner's Wounding into Persistence. 

 

This would also give me a good opportunity to play an Aumaua over yet another elf since I tend to end pretty elf flooded into my ranged department. Instead, picking nature godlike mage + aumaua rogue + elf priest would resolve this problem for good while not gimping the team.

 

Ok, let's go for quickswitch ^_^

Most people would rate druid as top 3 most powerful class. It is not as powerful as a priest, no, but no class is.

 

Priest > Wizard > Druid is my top 3