RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS

[Bartimaeus]

Total conversion projects almost never pan out (...and I think basically none for Stalker ever have), so hard for me to look at it objectively while knowing that.

[Keyrock]

Total conversion projects almost never pan out (...and I think basically none for Stalker ever have), so hard for me to look at it objectively while knowing that.

SHUSH!  I'm trying to build up an unrealistic expectation and set myself up for disappointment.

[Gorgon]

It is pretty odd that there have been no new STALKER games though,. I'd buy the hell out of one. 

[Bartimaeus]

The developer more or less dissolved a few years back (owner of the company laid off virtually everybody, as I remember it), and only recently sorta reformed, with nothing about Stalker since then.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[mkreku]

The Stalker games are what I would consider RPG's in their purest form (in my opinion, I won't explain). Also the most atmospheric games I've ever played.

 

Stalker 2 is still at the top of my unrealistic wish list.

[Bartimaeus]

Something I love about Stalker is tying all your combat stats purely to equipment. Anything else that cannot be handled by your equipment is left purely up to your own skills as a player. This is something that I wish other RPGs would at least try out and experiment in combination with real time action combat systems. I really wish there was a mod for the 3D Fallouts that did something like this for the combat abilities, and removed silly damage and accuracy scaling completely as a result. That would increase my interest in those games tenfold...as opposed to now, where my interest in them is roughly nil. It's so stupid and frustrating for me to have first person shooting mechanics tied to stats: a gun is a gun, and it should handle how YOU handle it in combination with its physical form factor (and consequent physical limitations)...and the projectiles should shoot at the same velocity and with roughly the same force and accuracy every time. It'd be nice to play a 3D Fallout like that...and where the combat system is much more brutal for yourself and enemies alike. Instead, these games have a "this is somewhat/fairly challenging" stage that happens at the beginning of the game, and a "I am a god of death for no real apparent reason" in the mid to late game. I just can't really be bothered with such silliness. Stalker, consequently, is much more my jam.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[SonicMage117]

The Stalker games are what I would consider RPG's in their purest form (in my opinion, I won't explain). Also the most atmospheric games I've ever played.

 

Stalker 2 is still at the top of my unrealistic wish list.

You don't have to lol

 

I consider Witcher 3 to be an action game (more like Tomb Raider) and less of an rpg but I don't want to explain that either - though I have pretty valud reasons to why it's anything but an rpg.

[Lexx]

Huh, sorry, but no. Stalker games really aren't RPGs. You can't even argue with stats here, because there are none. In the same sense you could say that any FarCry game is an RPG. That's just not right.

[SonicMage117]

Anyone getting Strafe? It was mentioned around these parts recently... I just saw a trailer for it and it looks promising for peeps who grew up with Quake, Unreal, etc.

[SonicMage117]

Voodoo Vince Remastered is coming to PC on the 18th for $14.99

[Katphood]

Last time I heard from GSC Gameworld was when they were trying to port Stalker to the consoles, they even had plans for portable consoles! I think they did announce a MMO Shooter game too at some point but that was about it. 

 

Also, did any of you guys enjoy Heroes of Annihilated Empires? Really loved the world and the story but the gameplay was rather clunky if memory serves right. 

[SonicMage117]

What ever happened to that one game called "Demons Age"... I remember people calling it a Pillars clone and the devs getting mad and saying that it was in development for a long time (before they knew about Pillars) lol

[Labadal]

What ever happened to that one game called "Demons Age"... I remember people calling it a Pillars clone and the devs getting mad and saying that it was in development for a long time (before they knew about Pillars) lol

It's "supposedly" in development still.

[Azdeus]

The Stalker games are what I would consider RPG's in their purest form (in my opinion, I won't explain). Also the most atmospheric games I've ever played.

 

Stalker 2 is still at the top of my unrealistic wish list.

 

Something I love about Stalker is tying all your combat stats purely to equipment. Anything else that cannot be handled by your equipment is left purely up to your own skills as a player. This is something that I wish other RPGs would at least try out and experiment in combination with real time action combat systems. I really wish there was a mod for the 3D Fallouts that did something like this for the combat abilities, and removed silly damage and accuracy scaling completely as a result. That would increase my interest in those games tenfold...as opposed to now, where my interest in them is roughly nil. It's so stupid and frustrating for me to have first person shooting mechanics tied to stats: a gun is a gun, and it should handle how YOU handle it in combination with its physical form factor (and consequent physical limitations)...and the projectiles should shoot at the same velocity and with roughly the same force and accuracy every time. It'd be nice to play a 3D Fallout like that...and where the combat system is much more brutal for yourself and enemies alike. Instead, these games have a "this is somewhat/fairly challenging" stage that happens at the beginning of the game, and a "I am a god of death for no real apparent reason" in the mid to late game. I just can't really be bothered with such silliness. Stalker, consequently, is much more my jam.

 

 

It's the very opposite to an RPG as I see it, as soon as the player is the main skill-limiter it stops being an RPG. You need a player/character separation via skills for it to be an RPG.

 

That said, FPS RPGS with shooter mechanics are rarely fun to people in general, people I've spoken to hated Alpha Protocols, Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines spread mechanics

Edited April 17, 2017 by Azdeus

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, Stalker isn't even an fps/rpg hybrid really, it's just a very good game with excellent immersion and atmosphere. Sure, you play the role of Strelok (or Scar or whatever CS dude is formally called) but then you play the role of Marine in Doom, Duke Nukem in Duke Nukem, God in SimCity and a paddle in pong- and none of those are RPGs.

 

The fps/rpg hybrids tend to fit into two categories, those like System Shock 2 where the shooting is player skill based but the rpg system applies weapon usage and damage dependent on the avatar's stats; and those like Deus Ex (or aforementioned Awesome Brotocols, for an Obsidian game) where you have a dual system where unskilled weapon usage involves wider spray patterns when shooting/ increased wobble, and there are modifications for damage based on skills as well.

 

Slight digression, but I've always found comments about bullets not going where they are aimed (not exactly what is happening here, to be clear, but it is a digression so...) to be an odd complaint. OK, if you're an olympics shooting contestant or a special forces sniper and gorilla warfare expert with more than 300 confirmed kills fair enough. But I have fantastic aim, I make sure that I always get the bullseye/ rabbit/ possum or whatever right in the middle of my sights- and about half the time I miss despite that. Shame I can't use a mouse for aiming in reality I guess, since I can headshot Monolith with a Vintorez or G36 from 400m and bullet drop be damned. Fair enough preferring it the other way in a game though, after all they're meant to be fun, or alternatively, ARMA.

[Bartimaeus]

It's the very opposite to an RPG as I see it, as soon as the player is the main skill-limiter it stops being an RPG. You need a player/character separation via skills for it to be an RPG.

 

That said, FPS RPGS with shooter mechanics are rarely fun to people in general, people I've spoken to hated Alpha Protocols, Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines spread mechanic

 

Hey, if you guys want to make your definition of RPG more or less strictly about character stats, that's your business. For me, equipment instead being that factor and something that you'll definitely be changing and messing around with throughout the entire game while otherwise meeting the definition is pretty much good enough for me (and many others) to call it an RPG.

[Belle Sorciere]

I don't know - how are you "playing a role" if your own skills determine what you're capable of?

 

I'll take Dark Souls as an example where I think the reliance on player skill + gear + actual stats that improve your performance still qualifies as an RPG, but Stalker doesn't seem to fit the criteria at all.

[Bartimaeus]

I don't know - how are you "playing a role" if your own skills determine what you're capable of?

 

I'll take Dark Souls as an example where I think the reliance on player skill + gear + actual stats that improve your performance still qualifies as an RPG, but Stalker doesn't seem to fit the criteria at all.

 

You pick the role you want to play. If you want to be a heavily armored mercenary who only trusts his AK and will take any job - including murdering others for no other reason besides that you'll get paid - that's the role you can play. If you want to be an ideologue that values personal freedom and the sanctity of human life over anything else, maybe you'll align with the Freedom faction and avoid trying to kill anybody and instead just try to sneak through or around combat encounters...and you probably won't be taking very many assassination contracts, that's for sure. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. didn't implement these things perfectly, of course not...but there is absolutely more to roleplaying than just ridiculous abstracted stats in my mind, and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. allows for it more than most other so-called "RPG"s that railroad you into completing certain objectives or doing certain kinds of tasks. Yeah, there's still some of that due to the main narrative of the games and stuff, but you have much more relative freedom than a whole lot of other games. You choose your jobs, you choose your equipment and playstyle, and your actions affect your relations with other people and factions. That's about as much of an RPG as you can get in my mind. Yeah, again, all these things could've been done better than they were in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, but that's true for literally every game ever.

 

And on the plus side, you don't have what I'd consider a terrible/wonky combat system either (...unlike the Fallouts), especially if you're okay with quickly adding a mod somebody else already worked on and complete to increase the damage/accuracy of weapons to make combat more deadly - for both yourself and enemies. Shadow of Chernobyl will quite possibly be my favorite shooter for the rest of my life for just these reasons - a very unique and extremely visceral blend of FPS and RPG elements with a pretty darned cool setting that I just cannot really find anywhere else in gaming.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[Belle Sorciere]

I didn't say there wasn't anything more to roleplaying than stats. What I asked was how you're playing a role when that role is constrained by your own skill. It's not a bad thing to be able to roleplay a character that is good at things that you are not necessarily good at yourself, and I don't think it detracts from an RPG to be able to play characters that are not entirely dependent upon player skill. Your definition seems to run counter to what an RPG is.

[redneckdevil]

The same reason a game that has stats and c & c isn't a RPG because it has a predefined character.....

[Bartimaeus]

I didn't say there wasn't anything more to roleplaying than stats. What I asked was how you're playing a role when that role is constrained by your own skill. It's not a bad thing to be able to roleplay a character that is good at things that you are not necessarily good at yourself, and I don't think it detracts from an RPG to be able to play characters that are not entirely dependent upon player skill. Your definition seems to run counter to what an RPG is.

 

But I didn't say the combat system had anything to do with it being an RPG or not to begin with (probably where we're getting confused here, and probably what I should've replied with to begin with - my bad!). My entire argument was more trying to establish why it's still an RPG even with an un-RPG-ish combat system (in reply Zoraptor and Azdeus saying it's not an RPG at all, which is where I thought you were arguing from, but I see that you were not).

Edited April 17, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[Belle Sorciere]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I thought you were saying something you weren't actually saying.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Belle Sorciere

[Azdeus]

You pick the role you want to play. If you want to be a heavily armored mercenary who only trusts his AK and will take any job - including murdering others for no other reason besides that you'll get paid - that's the role you can play. If you want to be an ideologue that values personal freedom and the sanctity of human life over anything else, maybe you'll align with the Freedom faction and avoid trying to kill anybody and instead just try to sneak through or around combat encounters...and you probably won't be taking very many assassination contracts, that's for sure. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. didn't implement these things perfectly, of course not...but there is absolutely more to roleplaying than just ridiculous abstracted stats in my mind, and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. allows for it more than most other so-called "RPG"s that railroad you into completing certain objectives or doing certain kinds of tasks. Yeah, there's still some of that due to the main narrative of the games and stuff, but you have much more relative freedom than a whole lot of other games. You choose your jobs, you choose your equipment and playstyle, and your actions affect your relations with other people and factions. That's about as much of an RPG as you can get in my mind. Yeah, again, all these things could've been done better than they were in the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, but that's true for literally every game ever.

 

And on the plus side, you don't have what I'd consider a terrible/wonky combat system either (...unlike the Fallouts), especially if you're okay with quickly adding a mod somebody else already worked on and complete to increase the damage/accuracy of weapons to make combat more deadly - for both yourself and enemies. Shadow of Chernobyl will quite possibly be my favorite shooter for the rest of my life for just these reasons - a very unique and extremely visceral blend of FPS and RPG elements with a pretty darned cool setting that I just cannot really find anywhere else in gaming.

Sure, STALKER gives you more freedom than most games out there, but just as you need more than stats for an RPG you also need more than being able to chose a path/way to be one aswell. What you describe is closer to roleplaying than what you get in Oblivion, but it still isn't quite there. It's still you that is the driving force of the player, your shooting/sneaking skills.

 

I'm definetly not disagreeing that STALKER is... basically awesome, I've been playing it close to continously since release with different mods, and probably reinstalled the game twice a year when a new version of a big mod came out. I also enjoy the reactivity, faction choosing and micromanaging of gear, but I can't see it as an RPG, no more than any other action game out there.

STALKER has more to it than any other shooter that quickly comes to mind, but the closest it comes to an RPG is with (IIRC) the Misery mod wich lets you chose a character archetype with some actual (nonupgradeable) skills.

Or close to a RPG with some really bad dialogue

 

The same reason a game that has stats and c & c isn't a RPG because it has a predefined character.....

 

I assume you're glancing at a certain white haired fellow, but you do get to define much of the character; Not as much his history, but his current reactions and ways to approach things. I very much doubt that Andrzej Sapkowski would've had Geralt (B&W spoiler)

reunite Anna and Sylvietta reunite in their castle while Geralt sits in his vineyard chilling with Empress Ciri

 

 

[Bartimaeus]

STALKER has more to it than any other shooter that quickly comes to mind, but the closest it comes to an RPG is with (IIRC) the Misery mod wich lets you chose a character archetype with some actual (nonupgradeable) skills.

 

Or close to a RPG with some really bad dialogue

 

Dialogue and choice and consequence around it is definitely lacking, for sure. What's your line in the sand for what is an RPG and what is not an RPG here? I, for example, don't see why explicitly choosing a "character archetype" is necessary, though - is not enough to just simply PLAY and hold true to a certain type of character? If I play D&D, it's not like I'm explicitly laying out 100% what kind of character I will be before I even start playing - yeah, there's the required stuff like what your class and alignment is (necessary for the purposes of the game system), but there are all sorts of little sub-details and variances within that that aren't clear except through your actual actions. If D&D had a sort of "classless" variant where you just build your character as you go along with no strictly defined class or character types, I would hardly think of it as being less of an RPG - it would just be a different kind. Why is that necessary here?

[Azdeus]

The archetypes in Misery had skills and stats that were different from the base Degtyarev, the scout could handle sniper rifles and shotguns much better than the assault class and had better stamina and mobility, assault had bonuses to assaultrifles, first aid use and so on wich forced you to handle things differently. You didn't really have the option as a scout to run in guns blazing but had to recon, pick of targets at range and draw enemies into mines and so on.

 

For me, the line is really about there being stats that separate you from the avatar. In a RPG it shouldn't matter that I'm great at pointing my mouse in the right direction unless the avatar is good at it himself, preferably no direct control, i.e. like the old Fallouts/BG but I'm not 100% averse to the way Alpha Protocol, Mass Effect 1 and Bloodlines handled it, with deviation from your point of aim if the avatar is poor at handling weapons.

 

Ideally, in an RPG it shouldn't matter if the player himself is a quadraplegic or if he's the best FPS shooter in the world with dozens of trophies, if the quadraplegic has an avatar that is a god with weapons and the FPS shooter doesn't the quadraplegic should beat him, hands down.

 

In DnD it wouldn't matter much if you removed classes and could just pick and choose your abilities as you wished, you'd still have dice rolls to determine success on your skills and many other RPG's have this system (Dark Heresy 2'nd edition, for instance and to a small extent DnD 5'th edition), the point would be that despite the fact that I'm a lazy bearded grognard in DnD I can roleplay an athletic Warlock vixen(Don't judge me!   ) if I so choose because of the statistics chosen/rolled. I also prefer more freeform character building systems

 

STALKER doesn't really allow any of this in it's base form, and I'm forced to keybind quicksave/quickload onto the left/right mouse button since sometimes when I blink, the world goes misty gray until I blink it away and my hearing is ****e, my character has exploded like a bloodsausage due to me not seeing or hearing that a grenade was tossed at my feet. Not the avatars fault there, but my physical limitations.