Mega Dungeon in PoEII?

[DCParry]

This is an interesting question. The Keep Dungeon was fun, the first 4 times. In honor of the sequel and my children finally being able to use the toilet on their own, I have started a new playthrough, and while I am still going through the Temple of Eothas (which I think is great), I am already dreading traversing the megadungeon (especially the ogres).

 

Of course, I could just not do it, but look it. It is just sitting there. Filled with goodies. The shiny, candy like dungeon.

 

Of course, it contains goodies, but also doom. DOOOOOOOOOM. Doomie doom doooooooom.

 

Ahem, sorry.

[anameforobsidian]

I'd say that the Endless path levels were more good than bad.

 

- 1st floor:  This is a great introduction and graphically shows how the castle transitions straight into the Endless Paths.

- 2nd:  The xaurip pit fight was really cool, and the poisoned xaurip was a great little story bit.  It's a bit large.

- 3rd: The third level was quite unique, had a good story quest (crazy ogres) and some unique fights.

- 4th:  A weak level.  The introduction of the head was visually cool, but the ooze fights were lame and numerous.

- 5th:  The Drake, Bloodpit, and Hidden Treasure room are cool.  Clear out the rest of the fights though.

 

- 6th:  Provides a very nice break in gameplay, story and structure.  Lets you know that the first quarter was about monstrous humanoids and this quarter is going to be about the walking dead.  It also ramps up the difficulty considerably from xaurips & slimes.

-7th:  Great concept, but under-designed.  A steady stream of weaker elementals would send the message that no, you really need to go to the rooms.  The addition of immunities and explosion on fire-elementals made this room stronger.

- 8th:  Way too big and samey, but a brilliant bit of reactivity from the fampyr boss.  One of the better bits of writing and reactivity in the game.

- 9th:  A weaker level in general.  The room with spikes was no Bodhi's lair.  This also could have made a better transition.

 

- 10th:  Very weak level.  Skippable in general.  Gameplay lets you know that we're moving to mind control.  Cean Gula are a clever transition between undead and the mind control quarter, but any writing would have helped this a lot. 

- 11th:  This works as a gameplay change, and the scripted interaction is cool.  However, the whole thing would have been better combined with the tenth.

-  12th:  Great level in terms of writing, atmosphere, and gameplay difference.  This is the best level in the Endless Paths.  I love what they did with the Vithrak.

 

- 13th:  This is a cool level.  It's not great, but it's letting you know that we're finally homing in on Od Nua's secrets.  The door magic is a cool bit of writing too.  The gameplay definitely shifts with animats.

- 14th:  I love the imagery and dialogue of this place.  The dialogue especially uses branching text trees as a neat way to demonstrate the ghost's single-minded obsession.  The Od Nua fight is neat too.  What I don't like is two boss fights in a row.

- 15th:  Great fight, it's nice that it's short and sweet.  There should have been a better transition between Od Nua and this though.  Maybe giving Od Nua the key to a master's door that the drake was guarding.

 

To sum up, I only think that three levels should have been cut altogether.  Four levels could have used a content reduction.  The last 8 levels were pretty decent.  That's way larger than the five level limit that some people are saying.

[Townsendvol]

I like dungeons but they can be to long or to big. I thought in PoE 15 Levels was way to big. I did like the option of being able to come back and finish it.  But it was more work than fun by the end.

 

Smaller, more interesting ones are better in my opinion.  In fact if you need 15 Levels of dungeons do 3 different 5 Level dungeons. 

[Silent Winter]

 

Sure - but occupying the keep wasn't optional.  Even if you never built it up, you still have the keep, have to go to the basement and see the head (or near enough). And so it doesn't matter if you do the side-quest or not, the statue can still tear its way out of the ground and ruin your (already ruined?) keep.

 

 

Isn't the head further below the basement? If I recall correctly only the raised hand is in the basement.

 

Is it?   I'll take a peek later.

Either way, you can see enough to know that there's something below - don't need to explore it for it to make sense in the follow-up game. (Though why you wouldn't want to explore the dungeon beneath your own keep is beyond me    )

[Kaylon]

I don't mind for many levels if they add better loot and bosses because the Endless Paths felt like you had to grind 15 levels to get the good stuff. 

[Fenixp]

Of course, I could just not do it, but look it. It is just sitting there. Filled with goodies. The shiny, candy like dungeon.

 

Of course, it contains goodies, but also doom. DOOOOOOOOOM. Doomie doom doooooooom.

Well you can just barge in there on lvl 16. It'll then turn out that the rumors of Doomie doom doooooooom were vastly exaggerated.

[rjshae]

Nay, although I wouldn't mind some form of cultural linkages between separate dungeons.

[JerekKruger]

Is it?   I'll take a peek later.

 

I checked, the head is on floor four.

 

Either way, you can see enough to know that there's something below - don't need to explore it for it to make sense in the follow-up game.

 

 

It's possible to kill Maewald without seeing the hand, which is past the spider queen fight. If you did this, the only sign of the statue would be the finger tips grasping the chapel in Caed Nua, and it's not clear to me that you'd guess they were finger tips without seeing the hand as well.

 

Of course most players will have explored at least a few floors of Od Nua so will have figured out that it contains a statue, and for any who didn't, they'll soon find out.

[amazeing4art]

 

I don't care too much about size... I'd just like to see dungeons with a story and puzzles and historical/lore context. Endless Paths had enough story and all of that for like 7 of its levels, all the rest seemed just added in to make it larger (to me anyway).

 

I would also really love to see dungeons and ruins that you cannot just clear at a certain level and then be totally done with. It would be great to have dungeons that you first encounter at level 3, for example, to have some secret passage that leads to a whole deeper area/rooms/level, a secret passage you would only discover with level 10 mechanics skills, or after reading a history book about that dungeon site, a book located in a far-off library you won't get to until level 10... etc. Or maybe opening it requires an invocation you learn from a distant wizard later in the game. Or maybe you meet a tired old adventurer in a tavern at level 12 who offers to sell you a key to a door in that dungeon. The possibilities are many.

 

This kind of dungeon would be an easy and complication-free way for the devs to make the story feel less linear too, because you would not just blast through the dungeon and then never see it again... it would be your choice whether and when to go back to it.

[Heijoushin]

So... after all our bitching, looks like we're getting a string of islands. I guess I'm okay with this. It has a lot more creative potential than caves. 

[Gromnir]

So... after all our bitching, looks like we're getting a string of islands. I guess I'm okay with this. It has a lot more creative potential than caves. 

am thinking it gots 'bout same creative limits, which is to say, none.  sure, will be engine limits and practical resource allocation limits, but am never gonna accept a limit 'pon creativity save one which is self imposed.

 

 

 

 

heck, perhaps cave could lead to a buried alien spacecraft?

 

https://dnd.rem.uz/Advanced%20D%26D%20(unsorted)/S3%20-%20Expedition%20to%20the%20Barrier%20Peaks.pdf

 

etc.

 

no limits.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Heijoushin]

 

So... after all our bitching, looks like we're getting a string of islands. I guess I'm okay with this. It has a lot more creative potential than caves. 

am thinking it gots 'bout same creative limits, which is to say, none.  sure, will be engine limits and practical resource allocation limits, but am never gonna accept a limit 'pon creativity save one which is self imposed.

 

etc.

 

no limits.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Although I do bow to the overall wisdom of your statement, with a system of caves, it seems a little strange having so many war-like races co-existing so close to each other. I mean, they pulled it off pretty well but still. On the other hand, different islands can quite reasonably have completely different culture/races/architecture etc. Also, with islands, you can meet a wider variety of NPCs (travelers, pirates, adventurers, locals, pretty maidens etc.), where as deep in Od Nua, you can only encounter psychos from a past civilization. 

[Gromnir]

 

 

So... after all our bitching, looks like we're getting a string of islands. I guess I'm okay with this. It has a lot more creative potential than caves. 

am thinking it gots 'bout same creative limits, which is to say, none.  sure, will be engine limits and practical resource allocation limits, but am never gonna accept a limit 'pon creativity save one which is self imposed.

 

etc.

 

no limits.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Although I do bow to the overall wisdom of your statement, with a system of caves, it seems a little strange having so many war-like races co-existing so close to each other. I mean, they pulled it off pretty well but still. On the other hand, different islands can quite reasonably have completely different culture/races/architecture etc. Also, with islands, you can meet a wider variety of NPCs (travelers, pirates, adventurers, locals, pretty maidens etc.), where as deep in Od Nua, you can only encounter psychos from a past civilization. 

 

that old ad&d module we linked, expedition to barrier peaks, had a freaking spaceship, plant people, power armour, blasters and six-legged badgers with fur made o' gold.

 

...

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!