List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[Leeuwenhart]

Do only kith get godlikes...

 

Or wilders too?

 

Fire Ogre!!!!

[blotter]

Do only kith get godlikes...

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63395-update-43-pretty-and-technical/ just says humanoid, with humans being the race that gives birth to them most often. Most if not all wilder are (roughly) humanoid, though, so why not? Godlike born in the Dyrwood 'til recently would be hollowborn too, so maybe there're a bunch of wicht godlike shambling around out there as well.

 

Doubt we'll see any death godlike vithrak, moon godlike wicht, fire godlike ogres, or nature godlike trolls in the near future, though. That sort of pileup and cross-breed excess seems best left for d&d, really. Except for death godlike vithrak. Anything as ugly as those must be absolutely has to make it into a Pillars game.

 

Edit: I feel sorry for the subclasses, though, getting gobbled up by the godlike this way in their own thread.

Edited February 14, 2017 by blotter

[Leeuwenhart]

Moon Trolls

 

 

[Guest]

Per Josh:

 

"barb/fighter is Brute and barb/monk is Brawler."

 

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3807509&userid=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post469078188

[Fardragon]

Thematically, one might imagine an Ice godlike associated Rymrgand, and a Sun godlike associated with Eothas. Even if we accept the idea that godlikes are connected to the gods in some way, there doesn't need to be a one to one match up. For example, a fire godlike could be associated with Magran OR Abyddon.

 

Given what we know about the PoE gods, as created beings they must be subject to entropy (which existed long before Rymrgand became the god associated with it). Ergo, over time, little bits of their essence break away and are returned to the wheel to be reborn as a part of the soul of a kith. Hence a godlike is born.

 

Animancy has established that animal souls don't (normally) share the same "pool" as kith souls. One might hypothesize that Wilder, Primordials, etc also have separate pools. Since the gods where specifically made from kith souls, I would hypothesize that there are no non-kith godlike.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Fardragon

[blotter]

Animancy has established that animal souls don't (normally) share the same "pool" as kith souls.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but if the souls of kith and animals were truly distinct, it would seem to imply that no kith would ever be reborn as an animal or vice versa. Events in the first game (via Sagani) plainly contradict this, however. If you discuss the Naasitaq ritual she's engaged in when you meet her, I believe she specifically mentions a past huntress being forced to a recite an elder's past deeds and contributions to the tribe while running for her life from the bear that this elder had been reborn as. And of course, there were later developments in her NPC quest line itself that I won't spoil here.

 

Edit: I reread that and didn't overlook the parenthetical this time. Bearing that in mind, it doesn't seem to follow that because the humans would rarely (but not never) be reborn as animals and/or animals would rarely be reborn as humans, the castoffs of gods' souls that you theorize end up in kith soul pools would never stray into the similarly distant pools of wilder. On the other hand, if you mean that there is no cross-contamination between these pools except in cases of direct interference, as in the case of the Wicht, then this returns us to the contradictory precedents mentioned above.

Edited February 14, 2017 by blotter

[Boeroer]

Remember Persoq!

[JerekKruger]

 

Godlike were "blessed" before birth by one or more of the meddling deities of this world.

from Josh Sawyer during the PoE Kickstarter campaign

 

Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/316398

 

 

To be fair, that could be the "what people of Eora believe" explanation. Also given that that was during the Kickstarter it's quite possible Obsidian hadn't even settled on the "the gods are artificial" idea yet.

[Fardragon]

Remember Persoq!

 

I do, and that is why I qualified my comment. The creation of wicht implies that an animal soul is not suitable for powering a human body and mind. The same would appear to be true for Persoq, as he was not a regular normal animal. It would seem like his soul became lost somehow, and found its way into an inappropriate body - perhaps a natural version of how animancers created wichts.

 

Additional evidence: only the kith races had hollowborn children.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Fardragon

[blotter]

Remember Persoq!

 

The creation of wicht implies that an animal soul is not suitable for powering a human body and mind. The same would appear to be true for Persoq, as he was not a regular normal animal. It would seem like his soul became lost somehow, and found its way into an inappropriate body - perhaps a natural version of how animancers created wichts.

If it were necessarily the case that rebirth as an animal, or an animal's rebirth, as a person would result in crippling aberrations, then the prospect of such rebirths would be discussed very differently in-game. Sagani's people have been at this for centuries, yet her story about the prior huntress visiting the bear-elder is played for laughs, not filled with horror at the prospect of the atavistic degeneration, madness, and confusion that a once-revered member of their community was now forced to endure. It also doesn't hold that the consequences of creating wichts have any broader implications toward natural cycles of rebirth to begin with; there are any number of things that could have gone wrong with the procedure,

not least that the original souls of the Hollowborn were still in existence and may yet exert some limited influence over their bodies.

 

 

The creation of wichts also notably takes place after birth as opposed to prior to or during birth as seems to be more customary for the transmigration process. Souls may only have the flexibility to adapt to different types of existence at certain points in the continuum of life and death.

 

Then again, even if all humans who were reborn as animals would end up warped or lost in some way as a result, this is hardly sufficient reason to assert that godlike would never arise among wilder per your divine soul exuviae theory of their creation (which I actually like quite a bit, btw). It might be incredibly rare and prone to resulting deformity and/or crippling insanity for the offspring, sure, but that's a far cry from their existence being impossible in the first place.

 

However, it would potentially suggest that godlike are purged with even greater frequency from wilder populations than they are from kith populations, given the greater brutality of the former and the more unforgiving lives they lead in terms of environmental hazards, predation, and so forth. The Vithraak would be an except in regards to civilization, but even then, they seem ruthless enough to kill any godlike that might surface among their offspring without question if they were a liability.

 

Additional evidence: only the kith races had hollowborn children.

Given the nature of the hollowborn phenomena, though, the way it progressed is not really evidence in favor of this theory.

 

The leaden key deliberately initiated and extended the occurrence of the hollowborn as part of their agenda, targeting kith populations both to empower their goddess and to spread fear and hatred of animancy. Given that it's unclear whether wilder animancers are even a thing, or that the leaden key would even know this if they were, it's natural that their focus wouldn't extend past kith populations. Further, many wilder are subterranean: even if the leaden key had sufficient control over biawacs to send them twisting through the bowels of the earth, they'd have to know where to send them, a difficult prospect considering the scattered and nomadic nature of many wilder populations.

Edited February 14, 2017 by blotter

[SaruNi]

So the pistol-wielding (possibly pistol dual wielding?) Orlan is a Cipher-Barbarian. (I really like the concept.) Does this imply there will be a ranged Barbarian subclass? Maybe able to use Carnage with ranged weapons? (Or he could be his own unique subclass for this game.) Or will the class be redesigned so it's less melee-oriented and/or less dependent on Carnage?

 

(There wasn't a way to make ranged Barbarian worthwhile from a gameplay standpoint in PoE 1, was there? Couldn't use ranged weapons while engaged in melee to trigger carnage, right?)  

[Leeuwenhart]

So the pistol-wielding (possibly pistol dual wielding?) Orlan is a Cipher-Barbarian. (I really like the concept.) Does this imply there will be a ranged Barbarian subclass? Maybe able to use Carnage with ranged weapons? (Or he could be his own unique subclass for this game.) Or will the class be redesigned so it's less melee-oriented and/or less dependent on Carnage?

 

(There wasn't a way to make ranged Barbarian worthwhile from a gameplay standpoint in PoE 1, was there? Couldn't use ranged weapons while engaged in melee to trigger carnage, right?)

But there is a way to make a melee cipher

[Ganrich]

A range oriented Barbarian sublcass is something I'm hoping for. Whether Serefen is one or not, I'm unsure. It would be cool. I hope some of the subclasses fill gaps in the core classes to let them excel in another avenue of combat that was very inefficient in PoE.

 

E.G. Ranged Barbarian, non-tank Chanter, battle priest, etc.

[Boeroer]

I have the suspicion that carnage is not a mandatory - or an "automatic" - ability anymore. Maybe in a subclass, maybe universally.

[Leeuwenhart]

Thats almost a given

[blotter]

Maybe able to use Carnage with ranged weapons? (Or he could be his own unique subclass for this game.)

 

Carnage with ranged weapons seems like it'd step on the ranger's toes and risk overshadowing Driving Flight and Powder Burns. If not for the latter, I could see a Demolitionist subclass as being an interesting way to explore - fun with explosives is one the few ways that I can think of in which ranged combat fits in with the barbarian class theme of reckless, flailing violence.

 

Maybe Serafen's pistols will have reinforced barrels and grips, allowing them to double as clubs at close range. I can't really see the whole frenzying barbarian thing working well at a thematic level with the relatively cumbersome reload process for primitive firearms, but a frothing orlan berserker pistol whipping his enemies when the bullets run out sounds like a hoot. 

 

Edit: Either way, unique subclasses for NPCs sounds like a great idea to me.

Edited February 15, 2017 by blotter

[Ganrich]

Carnage with a ranged weapon steps on a Wizard's toes more than a Ranger.

[blotter]

I don't know about that. They're already competing with druids where AoE magic's concerned.

[injurai]

 

Animancy has established that animal souls don't (normally) share the same "pool" as kith souls.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but if the souls of kith and animals were truly distinct, it would seem to imply that no kith would ever be reborn as an animal or vice versa. Events in the first game (via Sagani) plainly contradict this, however. If you discuss the Naasitaq ritual she's engaged in when you meet her, I believe she specifically mentions a past huntress being forced to a recite an elder's past deeds and contributions to the tribe while running for her life from the bear that this elder had been reborn as. And of course, there were later developments in her NPC quest line itself that I won't spoil here.

 

Edit: I reread that and didn't overlook the parenthetical this time. Bearing that in mind, it doesn't seem to follow that because the humans would rarely (but not never) be reborn as animals and/or animals would rarely be reborn as humans, the castoffs of gods' souls that you theorize end up in kith soul pools would never stray into the similarly distant pools of wilder. On the other hand, if you mean that there is no cross-contamination between these pools except in cases of direct interference, as in the case of the Wicht, then this returns us to the contradictory precedents mentioned above.

 

 

Just because they believe the bear was an elder doesn't mean it actually was.

[Ganrich]

I don't know about that. They're already competing with druids where AoE magic's concerned.

I'm not talking about magic, but implement AoE with the Blast Talent. Which, more or less, IS a ranged variant of Carnage.

[blotter]

Just because they believe the bear was an elder doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but their huntresses are given tools to identify the latest incarnations of their elders, so mistaken identity's probably not the most likely explanation.

 

 

I'm not talking about magic, but implement AoE with the Blast Talent. Which, more or less, IS a ranged variant of Carnage.

 

Ah. Yes, I suppose that is a more extensive form of ranged AoE through basic attacks. For my part, I care a lot less about stepping on the wizard's toes in this regard, assuming that Blast and Penetrating Blast don't get bundled up in implement proficiencies and opened up to anyone who takes them anyway.

Edited February 15, 2017 by blotter

[injurai]

 

Just because they believe the bear was an elder doesn't mean it actually was.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but their huntresses are given tools to identify the latest incarnations of their elders, so mistaken identity's probably not the most likely explanation.

 

 

Check mate animancers!

[Ganrich]

I'd be fine if Implements received the Blast Talent as a modal, but I hope they all 3 get something different. It would be a bit bland that way. They would all be fundamentally the same thing. I don't think the guns will share a modal, nor Xbow/arbelest, nor bows. So why should implements?

[blotter]

You have a point. Maybe we'll see it on Rods since they're the most heavy-duty of the implements and something more distinct for the other types.

 

Given the number of different weapons available, though, I wouldn't be surprised if modals were repeated for some of them. In some cases it could even be desirable; AFAIR, they mentioned having a DT Penetration modal for estocs, for example, and it doesn't particularly make sense for them to be the only weapons that can be used this way.

Edited February 15, 2017 by blotter

[Fardragon]

Rage could replace Carnage as the Barbarian's default ability. That works with ranged weapons.

 

I can't think of a theme for a ranged barbarian subclass that wouldn't be very ranger-like though.

 

But as for the companion, from what I gather they don't have to be multiclassed, they just can take either class as there starting class. So if you take barbarian levels he might just prefer duel wielding cutlasses instead of pistols.