I am a sucker and I bought...

[Darkpriest]

5ed base manuals, DM, Monster and Player books....

 

Anyone playing 5ed here? any advice on returning to D&D? Any links for some cool stuff that can be accessed on line or shipped to EU, - like map creator tools, additional and expanded lore,  etc.

 

I'd greatly appreciate any info here

[Azdeus]

Well, there's always the Forgotten Realms wiki if that's your fancy. Don't know what world base you prefer yourself, but FR wiki is the most developed one I've found.

[Darkpriest]

Thanks, I know about the wiki. I'll give it a look then.

 

I was hoping that perhaps someone knows some "map making" tool for this type of a game. I mean, I could work on that manually, but the amount of work to create lets say "forest encounter" would cover a few hours, and I hoped to cut that down to 30min or so. I'd have to manually pre-make tons of map variances, while I hoped that there some tools, which could enable me to just start up laptop and create a needed map on the fly. (grids and all that jazz)

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Well, there are mapping programs, but they tend to be either so bad at communicating their features that it's easier to just work in an image manipulation software of your choice which you can already use and is more flexible and powerful anyway, or have very little in the way of widgets which results in same-y, boring maps.

[Darkpriest]

Well, there are mapping programs, but they tend to be either so bad at communicating their features that it's easier to just work in an image manipulation software of your choice which you can already use and is more flexible and powerful anyway, or have very little in the way of widgets which results in same-y, boring maps.

 

Would you have a link to any of those? I'd like to check them out. Alternatively, any recommendation for easy to learn image manipulation software :D

[Volourn]

I have spent so much money on 5e stuff it is ridiculous despite the fact I haven['t really played it. Tried a couple of times online and did play one session with old friends during Christmas.  5e is not perfect but it's pretty good. Certainly better than that trash known as 4e. Only wish I can play more.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Well, there are mapping programs, but they tend to be either so bad at communicating their features that it's easier to just work in an image manipulation software of your choice which you can already use and is more flexible and powerful anyway, or have very little in the way of widgets which results in same-y, boring maps.

 

Would you have a link to any of those? I'd like to check them out. Alternatively, any recommendation for easy to learn image manipulation software :D

 

 

I tried this one, and bounced off super hard, but who knows, it might work out for you. The site also features a slew of premade maps if making your own seems like an insurmountable challenge (as a general rule, I think it's faster and easier to grab a working substitute than it is to make a map from scratch).

[Darkpriest]

Thank you! It loos decentish on the demo vids, a lot of options so overwhelming at start but I think I can use it. Need to test a live demo though.

[Hynkel]

How is multiclassing in this game ? DnD 4 looked like the death of creativity and I wonder if they made 5 more open to this regard.

[Azdeus]

Well, I never read 4e, so I can't really compare per se, but; you loose out on feats if you do, for instance most classes gain a Feat/Ability Score Improvement every 4th class levels, so if you multiclass to 3/1 you miss out on that Feat/ASI and you only get a select few class abilities from the new class. But you don't lose out on skill levels or saves, they are now bundled together with base attack as "proficiency bonus", they are based on your character level. You'd also lose out on Extra Attacks, since they don't stack with eachother, you'll have to level up to Extra Attacks (2) in that character tree.

 

M u l t i c l a s s i n g  P r o f i c i e n c i e s
Class Proficiencies Gained

• Barbarian Shields, simple weapons, martial weapons
• Bard Light armor, one skill of your choice, one musical instrument of your choice
• Cleric Light armor, medium armor, shields
• Druid Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)
• Fighter Light armor, medium armor, shields, simple weapons, martial weapons
• Monk Simple weapons, shortswords
• Paladin Light armor, medium armor, shields, simple weapons, martial weapons
• Ranger Light armor, medium armor, shields, simple weapons, martial weapons, one skill from the class’s skill list
• Rogue Light armor, one skill from the class’s skill list, thieves’ tools
• Sorcerer —
• Warlock Light armor, simple weapons
• Wizard —

As you can probably see, you can't take one of the heavy armor classes just to get Heavy Armor proficiency. Spellcasters should avoid multiclassing like the plague ofcourse since they stop advancing their known spells, bit less punishing for Wizards than all others. There's a multiclass spellslot list wich means you will always get decent slots, but you will only be able to use them on lower level spells generally.

If you get the opportunity though, I'd recommend heavy armor, they're bloody OP.

 

I really don't see much gain in multiclassing since character abilities are really powerfull you don't gain much by jumping to another class. The one exception would be taking a level as a Rogue or Bard to get their Expertise bonus, wich gives you two skills/tools (I.e. Thieves tools for lockpicking) that you double your proficiency bonus in. Proficiency bonus goes from +2 to +6 in the far end, so it's quite a nice boost to something you want to be good at. Not as useful if you're doing 99% dungeon bashing.

Since you're much more limited in attributes and magical items than previous games it is much more noticeable aswell.

[Hynkel]

In 3.5 and pathfinder, aside from saves and unique class stuff, leveling up gave you base attack bonus (bonus to hit with weapons) and spellcaster level of the according class.

 

So you could take 3 fighter levels (+3 to BAB), 4 wizards level (+4 wiz spellcaster level, +2 to BAB stackable with the fighter BAB), and then pick a prestige class with a requirement of 5 BAB and 4 spellcaster level.

 

Said prestige class would give you spellcaster levels, decent BAB and cool unique stuff.

 

This system allowed a lot of creativity, especially since they released hundreds of prestige class in various books. It also compensated the games' balance issues, since in the base game non-spellcasters were weak.

 

It's a shame if the game doesn't give you any incentive to try new combinations. You end up playing the same boring-ass half-orc barbarian or elven ranger again and again.

[Azdeus]

They've sort of baked in Prestige Classes into the base classes, you choose a specialization for your class, so all characters get a little extra twist to them.

So your fighter at level 3 could choose the Eldritch Knight Martial Archetype and get some spells and abilities that would give you some bonuses and not sacrificing BAB. In 5e armor is much more powerful aswell since you don't have Touch AC just plain AC, so your Ranged Attack spells are harder to land on a pondering Fighter in full plate than that naked nimble thief.

 

 

If you play a Bard you can choose to focus on melee via Bards College of Valor or spells and skills through College of Lore, and there are a few more. Clerics and Wizards get domains and spell school specialization instead.

 

Technically speaking since BAB is based on your Proficiency bonus, a Wizard and Fighter has the same BAB, so if you pick feats you can be a decent swordsman aswell. The fighter has alot more HP (D10 instead of D6) and more Features from their class.

 

Rambling on; If you really want to break the game you play as a Valor Bard, choose some Paladin spells as your bonus spells and you're set to go. Bards get to choose a couple of spells from other classes spell lists and Paladin/Ranger spells are really powerful for their levels since they're normally accessed at much higher levels since they get slots half as quick as full casters, so their most powerful 5th slot spells normally accessed at level 17 the bard can get access to at level 10 and can cast at higher spell slots. Borked.

Or just go for a Drood, Circle of the Moon can wildshape into higher Challenge Rating monsters than normal and recover Wild Shapes with every 1hour rest, meaning you can soak ludicrous amounts of HP will still doing damage and if push comes to shove you can spend spell slots to heal your wildshape HP.

 

Anyway, there are some options to get a little variation with the class specializations, but you will not get a massive bonus for doing so, and actually penalized if you're an innate caster. Cantrip spell damage scales with Caster Level rather than slot though, and cantrips will be one of your most oft used spells, so they've got some multiclass protection in there aswell. The higher level class features are really powerful and since you're multiclassing, well, wave all those goodbye.

 

I personally prefer 3.5e to 5e, the other GM and players prefers 5e since the rules have been streamlined.

[Hynkel]

It's true that 3.5 is full of unnecessary complexity, and I can totally understand why one would want a more efficient ruleset. 

 

Still, it's heresy to me that in 2017 Wizards would want players to stick with old-fashioned classes, even with some amount of specialization. It sounds like the opposite of modernity. 

[Azdeus]

I've always loved detailed rulesets, so I have a hard time with the proficiency system. You tag a skill and you're going to be good at it, you don't get to dip a little into other things that your character ought to have picked up. I already think that 3.5 is basic, atleast compared to what I'm used to.

 

I agree that things are a bit thin, but I doubt it is going to change soon. Most players that care have gone to Pathfinder anyways.

[Darkpriest]

It is fairly accessible, I've got a couple people in my group now, that never, ever touched a paper based RPG. The most experience they had in RPG was the Baldur's Gate or the Witcher

 

The system is surprisingly fun, and to a point more challenging too as you do not get the crazy BAB progression. You might find yourself getting ACs in 18s and overall AB in 8-10s even late into the game, so even small encounters with a fairly lower CR can weather you down with some less than average rolls.

 

Casters are also a fair bit less powerful than they used to, as DC of spells is hard to pump up and I do not recall other abilities than epic boons that could expand your spell slots beyond basic progression. There also seems to be a fair bit less amount of crazy buffs which made things like late game Wizards or CoDzillas variants so powerful. You need to trade off your stat increases for feats if you want some extras.

 

I feel it is a bit more balanced and more accessible, thus making more people having fun with this. I admit I have a lot of fun with it.

[sim-h]

I bought the 5e stuff about 18 months ago and have been having a blast DMing one of the adventure paths (Princes of the Apocalypse). In my opinion i's hands down the best iteration of D&D. I originally played 1e and the red box versions. 2e was Baldur's Gate. 3e looked like far too many options. 4e looked like an attempt to replicate MMOs and I hated and grieved at the sight of it. 5e takes the feel of 1e but fills in a lot of rules gaps, makes things more balanced without feeling bland, and makes it harder to die in one hit....

[Azdeus]

It is fairly accessible, I've got a couple people in my group now, that never, ever touched a paper based RPG. The most experience they had in RPG was the Baldur's Gate or the Witcher

 

The system is surprisingly fun, and to a point more challenging too as you do not get the crazy BAB progression. You might find yourself getting ACs in 18s and overall AB in 8-10s even late into the game, so even small encounters with a fairly lower CR can weather you down with some less than average rolls.

 

Casters are also a fair bit less powerful than they used to, as DC of spells is hard to pump up and I do not recall other abilities than epic boons that could expand your spell slots beyond basic progression. There also seems to be a fair bit less amount of crazy buffs which made things like late game Wizards or CoDzillas variants so powerful. You need to trade off your stat increases for feats if you want some extras.

 

I feel it is a bit more balanced and more accessible, thus making more people having fun with this. I admit I have a lot of fun with it.

 

The system is challenging and balanced until you have a player roll a Moon druid. 2xWildshape, use spell slots as heals and Call Lightning will wreck the GM's day.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

It is fairly accessible, I've got a couple people in my group now, that never, ever touched a paper based RPG. The most experience they had in RPG was the Baldur's Gate or the Witcher

 

The system is surprisingly fun, and to a point more challenging too as you do not get the crazy BAB progression. You might find yourself getting ACs in 18s and overall AB in 8-10s even late into the game, so even small encounters with a fairly lower CR can weather you down with some less than average rolls.

 

Casters are also a fair bit less powerful than they used to, as DC of spells is hard to pump up and I do not recall other abilities than epic boons that could expand your spell slots beyond basic progression. There also seems to be a fair bit less amount of crazy buffs which made things like late game Wizards or CoDzillas variants so powerful. You need to trade off your stat increases for feats if you want some extras.

 

I feel it is a bit more balanced and more accessible, thus making more people having fun with this. I admit I have a lot of fun with it.

 

The system is challenging and balanced until you have a player roll a Moon druid. 2xWildshape, use spell slots as heals and Call Lightning will wreck the GM's day.

 

 

Wildshape drood is incredibly OP... at level 2. Then it starts falling off compared to a decently optimized fighter. Damage far outstrips healing in 5E, so the bonus action heal is a band-aid at best, and an active trap at worst. Most animals have terrible ACs, so even the "cast Call Lightning, wildshape into a high-Con animal to have a better chance to keep concentration, laugh as everything melts around you" strategy is considerably less effective than "be a Tempest Cleric in heavy armor".

 

It's also worth noting that while Call Lightning is awesome, Conjure Animals also happens to be a 3rd level druid spell that requires concentration, and while 3d10 damage (save halves) per round is nothing to sneeze at, having four black bears maul your enemies at the same time is likely going to outperform that (barring special circumstances such as flight or high AC targets with low Dex saves).

Edited March 10, 2017 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Azdeus]

Moondrood reigns until higher levels too, for sheer versatility and sustainability really. Sure a Wiz/Sor will outdamage you, but you spend one spell slot to keep call lightning alive for up to 10 minutes, so you can use it damn near any fight and use slots to keep your and your party topped up aswell. While animals have, generally speaking, terrible armour they also have higher mobility, meaning you can kite people or just plain stay out of their range with flying.

Tempest Clerics are quite powerful aswell, but not quite as annoying in our groups opinion as Moonmoons.

 

Then you get Elemental Wild Shape...

 

Conjure animals requires you to give the animals verbal commands though, wich you can't do in wild shape, sadly, but if you only have a single target they are better provided the target doesn't have the ability to AoE them to death.

 

There is a perk to Druids though, Reincarnation. Oh the lols when our mighty half-orc barbarian got turned into the very thing he hated the most, a tiefling.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Moondrood reigns until higher levels too, for sheer versatility and sustainability really. Sure a Wiz/Sor will outdamage you, but you spend one spell slot to keep call lightning alive for up to 10 minutes, so you can use it damn near any fight and use slots to keep your and your party topped up aswell. While animals have, generally speaking, terrible armour they also have higher mobility, meaning you can kite people or just plain stay out of their range with flying.

 

Let's not be ridiculous - if all the moon druid does in a fight is fly around as a majestic (giant) eagle, zapping people with lightning, all he contributes is an extremely fat target for ranged enemies (you can't wildshape as a reaction, so if your wildshape HP is blown off of you, you'll shift back to your original form AND take massive falling damage) and a measly 3d10 damage per turn, which is basically chump change compared to a decently supported Great Weapon Master's damage (who requires two first level slots to operate at maximum efficiency, tops).

 

Moon Moon is decent, but if I wanted a versatile utility caster with sustainability, I'd rather go with a Warlock, if I wanted a versatile support/utility caster, I'd pick a Bard, and if I wanted a versatile support caster with a grab-bag of other useful tricks, I'd play one of the annoyingly overpowered varieties of Cleric. The druid sits in a weird corner where they can wear multiple hats reasonably well, but don't really have a role they excel at, and their tricks are ridiculously easy to counter. For this reason, I'd actually consider them underpowered (early game power spike notwithstanding).

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So how does 5e Sorcerer compare to Pathfinder in terms of relative power and versatility?

[Azdeus]

Let's not be ridiculous - if all the moon druid does in a fight is fly around as a majestic (giant) eagle, zapping people with lightning, all he contributes is an extremely fat target for ranged enemies (you can't wildshape as a reaction, so if your wildshape HP is blown off of you, you'll shift back to your original form AND take massive falling damage) and a measly 3d10 damage per turn, which is basically chump change compared to a decently supported Great Weapon Master's damage (who requires two first level slots to operate at maximum efficiency, tops).

 

Moon Moon is decent, but if I wanted a versatile utility caster with sustainability, I'd rather go with a Warlock, if I wanted a versatile support/utility caster, I'd pick a Bard, and if I wanted a versatile support caster with a grab-bag of other useful tricks, I'd play one of the annoyingly overpowered varieties of Cleric. The druid sits in a weird corner where they can wear multiple hats reasonably well, but don't really have a role they excel at, and their tricks are ridiculously easy to counter. For this reason, I'd actually consider them underpowered (early game power spike notwithstanding).

Ofcourse, but there enemies need lines of sight, hide is your friend if you're an Elf, and be in range and cover helps you greatly - not all enemies have longbows. And you don't have to pick the biggest animal around, if you pick something small and inconspicous that works even better. Hide in a swarm of crows or whatever. And let's not forget to mention that the druid can do this without support and you have range for it, and if everyone is focused on the Druid the other players can wreck the mooks while the Moonmoon just play a bit defensively. Not many mooks/monsters have Dexterity saves or Resistance to Lightning, so you can be fairly confident that those damage points are going to land. Granted, not having any bonus but flat Xd10 damage dies can have you fluctuating wildly damage wise, a Fighter must land his hits in melee while taking damage. He must be in the thick of it. And he is dependant on loot for this aswell, having full plate early on and/or a magic weapon isn't a guarantee.

 

Anything you do to counter the lone druid player is going to hurt much more against the rest of the group though, you have to pull out some really dedicated things if your players know what they are doing. They are one of the most overpowered classes in the game at the moment, if not the most overpowered. The other classes does have some really badass things going on, but they have to be really specialized compared to a Moonmoon druid.

 

From playing a Druid until the GM got annoyed enough to "Drop a bridge on her" and a bit of Cleric, I'd go for Bard. They seem more fun to play, lots of skills, lots of spells and some fun other tricks. The best fun I've had so far has been in playing a Thief, if you're clever you can use that bonus action Slight of Hand to do some pretty neat stuff to your enemies. Not good in the traditional sense, but loads of fun. Untying peoples pants forcing them to either fight with one hand less to hold up their pants, or fight hobbled with their pants around their ankles or just plain stealing anything that isn't nailed down is great fun!

 

 

So how does 5e Sorcerer compare to Pathfinder in terms of relative power and versatility?

 

Least spells but they are the only ones that have metamagic on their side wich can be nifty. Still after Wizards in power, but high in pure entertainment.

 

Edit; Should say that I don't know how much difference there is between Pathfinder and 3.5e, I've not read Pathfinder since our players don't want to go back from 5e.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Azdeus

[Regggler]

So apparently, CoDzilla is alive and "well" in 5e? (I only know the rules up to 3.5)

[Azdeus]

So apparently, CoDzilla is alive and "well" in 5e? (I only know the rules up to 3.5)

 

Not as extreme as in 3.5, but yes, they're very powerful compared to the others.

[Regggler]

Cheers, mate! As a caster-player, I'm not usually on the receiving end of mediocre class balance, but man, they apparently just can't shake that tier problem...