Two handers

[zeldagaiden]

Hello everybody,

 

I have a 4 man setup at Concelhault's doorstep, all lvl 12.

Playing on PoTD with all upscaled content possible.

Party consists of:

- MC Ploi, Shieldbearer Coastal Aumaua Paladin. Has Shatterstar+Outworn, Adra armor.

- Lady of pain, 2 handed beast of doom (Coastal aumaua as well). Crossed patch, sanguine armor, binding rope

- Generic (i would think) Stormcaller ranger with wolf (has stormcaller and gambesson for alacrity buff 1/rest)

- Tweaked Cleric for party purpose, terrible accuracy, but very durable. He's there to buff and hold ppl in melee when they get past the line of warrior pala and pet. This lil piggy has Gyrd for ranged, forgotten tear+Byrngar solace for melee. Using tear only because of the spells, using these on need and sparing some spell slots when necessary. She has 51 acc on melee, so dont worry much about her dmg.

 

SO. What I'm wondering about is, how does overbearing play out on dual handed? Right now, I'm wearing The grey sleeper on the lady of pain, with 91 acc unbuffed. Prior to that i was wearing White Spire with shock lash to profit from stormcaller. Now comes the tricky part: You can't quite lash the Grey sleeper. It's all shiny and stuff, but it.... kind of seems to underperform in terms of damage vs the white spire, simply due to the lash (and the disorienting, lets not forget the powerhouse that proc is).

Now, the great sword Hours of St. Rumbalt can be lashed (versus the temperacl that already is lashed, cant profit from stormcaller that much), has anihilation AND overbearing. These 2 SOUND very good together, specialy because I play around on setting up (when I can, obviously) flanks and prones to do big damages.

 

I don't know how to put the question, and I dont mind rerolling for the greatsword talents, but, which one you think is better?

 

 

PS.: Finaly got around to make an account and post it :D first post hype!

[Boeroer]

Hours of St. Rumbalt is the better weapon.

 

Because you can't enchant the Grey Sleeper it's inferior to unique weapons which you can enchant with a lash and even more important: with durgan steel.

The only class which can make good use of the Grey Sleeper is the barbarian in my opinion.

 

Another good alternative would be the Blade of the Endless Paths (estoc) or Drake's Bell (estoc). White Spire is also nice.

 

The two hander with the best dps on a high MIG character is Tidefall. If you're looking for max. damage, take that.

 

By the way: why don't you use a marking weapon with Ploi? You're skipping +10 ACC on your Lady of Pain. Very good with Hours of St. Rumbalt.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

Congrats on first post)

 

As for weapon choices, I concur with the St.Rumbalt as being a better choice.

 

- Grey Sleeper is severely under-performing because it cannot be lashed, nor durganized. Also the proc chances are way to low to justify it's use on a fighter. It could be a weapon of choice for barbarian, but even then there are better alternatives;

 

- The Temperacl is just the same sword as St.Rumbalt minus the anihilation property. So it's also a strictly worse option.

 

- Tidefall is decent (if you have maxed might and avg-low int) due to wounding property. Draining is a pleasant bonus as well; not as great as on a barbarian, but still helps a bit with survivability, provided that fighter has decent hp pool.

 

- Blade of the Endless Paths - is also a decent alternative. Marking will probably be of little use provided your party composition. But if you haven't reached zero-recovery yet, it's speed property will help you to do so. And since stacking attack speed is subject to increasing returns (until you reach 0-rec), that last extra mile might result in an up to 28% increase in dps.

Edited January 14, 2017 by MaxQuest

[zeldagaiden]

Good advices folks,

 

I'm lookin for a weapon to mow down enemies with. It doesn't need to be Tidefall for max damage and I also tried out the Grey sleeper to check out its paralize property. I went on my way and thought it would proc alot more than it does, thinkin of taking advantage of stormcaller and merciless companion pet to maximize damage when it hits. Yet, another way to proc merciless and lower deflection is prone, which is why I am now searching for an alternative to Grey sleeper, which is a weapon that basicaly comes with good stats, superb quality and 0 investment on it to be good. So I tried it. Underwhelming.

 

So, regarding MaxQuest's thoughts, might is maximized, good health pool (about 300 endurance? need to check later) and damage is not an issue at the moment, every time the Lady of Pain swings a sword, her enemies feel her surname. Also, I believe Lady of Pain is mostly the last ma... woman standing and Ploi goes down sometimes due to overwhelming. Wolf dies most but is also rezd the most, gods bless paladins and their fast revive.

Does anyone know the proc rate of overbearing (prone on crit)? Also, the question is basicaly: Blade of Endless Paths or Hours of St. Rumbalt?

 

 

By the way: why don't you use a marking weapon with Ploi? You're skipping +10 ACC on your Lady of Pain. Very good with Hours of St. Rumbalt.

 

I do have a Cladìath with marking, yet i was using St graams on my cleric, and I never saw any buff on the minion saying "marking" or something of the sort, so I just assumed it's broken/bugged. I made the cladiath this way just as you thought, to make marking, but not for Lady of Pain. My lady of pain behaves a little like Fullmineo Prodroni, the monk on steroids that knocks out the backline solo. I don't have charge yet on the fighter, but willingly I make it happen, ergo, more often than not, it ends up being the Stormcaller and pet handle the riff raff at the front and Lady of pain isolating targets like marksman/rogues that wana go past the line, or wizards/clerics that have an opening. One knockdown is generaly enough to turn them into mince.

My last run also consisted of 4 man squad and it was something like Fullmineo MC, a generic pala tank (yeah, not MC, ended up regretting a bit cuz learned later that he got no bonus due to disposition), a buffer cleric with more offensive drive and Chillfog. I felt however the party underperformed a bit for what I wanted it to do, I ended up cheating a bit on Chillfog and went dragon thrashed, because I felt a HUGE lack of damage. Prodroni did his thing, but I think I needed someone else to do it. Ended up being chillfog heating up enemies hearths. This time I'm quite satisfied with everyone, even the priest, because the priest now does what I need him to do. Survive long enough, dont need to be offensive (hurts a bit not having acc to land aflictions). Can anyone recomend a weapon for the priest as well?

 

Last but not least, right now, the +1 engage helps a bit, doing WM1 and mobs really wana get through to my ranger.

 

PS.: Sorry for the wall of text, there's much to be said, but eh, 2nd post xD

[Boeroer]

Marking is not bugged. You have to use the marking weapon with Ploi, not the Lady. Then, when Ploi and the Lady attack the same target, the Lady will get +20 ACC. +10 from Cladhaliath and +10 from Coordinated Attacks (Ploi's ability). I meant +10 ACC for the Lady, not Cladhaliath as a weapon. If you want to see if marking works, you have to look at the combat log and whatch the ACC with which the Lady does her hit rolls: it should be 20 higher than her usual value that is listed on the char sheet. There is no other visual indicator!

 

If you want to buff the pet's damage, then I would strongly recommend Tidefall for the Lady. She can do Knockdown which triggers Merciless Companion, but she will also cause wounding with Tidefall which will trigger Predator's Sense (+50% damage) on the pet - which is way stronger than Merciless Companion.

 

Hours of St. Rumbalt is a nice alternative. The question about proc chance of overbearing shows that you don't know how it works (which is totally OK because the game does a poor job of describing such things):

Overbearing and stunning enchantments *always* proc when you do a critical hit. There is no chance like on The Grey Sleeper or other weapons which have a spell chance of 10% or 5% per hit.

Those are two different things. Spell chance will trigger with this certain chance - and every hit (and also crit) has the chance of 10% or 5% or whatever the description says, to proc the effect.

But Overbearing and stunning only proc on crit, but here it's on *every* crit. When you hit nothing happens, you have to crit.

 

Therefore, Hours of St. Rumbalt will proc a prone attack every time you deal a crit! With Disciplined Barrage and a priest with Devotions of the Faithful fighters crit a lot. Add a marking paladin to their side like Ploi, the fighter will have additional +20 ACC and will most likely crit with nearly every strike causing prone every time.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Boeroer

[zeldagaiden]

Well, I guess I have misread Overbearing, I had believed it to say "on hit or crit" like the domination effect of Gyrd. The Tidefall bleed is something I hadn't considered for the pet. Yet, right now it comes down to the pet and the pala to hold the melee, while the Lady goes wild in the back. Hmmm.... that's something to consider for bosses, but I believe that right now, after I use knockdown on someone with the lady (and is not a dragon with 130 fortitude checks), they will stay down if I use something with overbearing. And the Lady can always come back to the paladin's side to take benefit of the marking. Am thinking now of the marking to focus fire the frontline itself with wolf, ploi and stormcaller... Hmmm.....

 

So, Hours of St. Rumbalt win the ticket?

[rheingold]

I'm not crazy about "on critt effects" with few exceptions, mainly for barabarian which benefit hugely from them due to carnage. Also a stormcaller ranger. Beyond that, for melee in particular, I think it's hard to beat tidefall. Blade from the endless paths is good, except it's a single damage type which is not great. Also depending on your build and Durgan steel requirements you may not need the speed buff.

Again Hours of St Rumbaldt is probably the best weapon ( with tall grass) for barbarian but I'd rather kill single targets quicker than knock them on their ass....

So tidefalls nice

[zeldagaiden]

I'm not crazy about "on critt effects" with few exceptions, mainly for barabarian which benefit hugely from them due to carnage. Also a stormcaller ranger. Beyond that, for melee in particular, I think it's hard to beat tidefall. Blade from the endless paths is good, except it's a single damage type which is not great. Also depending on your build and Durgan steel requirements you may not need the speed buff.

Again Hours of St Rumbaldt is probably the best weapon ( with tall grass) for barbarian but I'd rather kill single targets quicker than knock them on their ass....

So tidefalls nice

Thing is, while doing buns of damage is indeed nice, I focus on targeting priority targets (when possible) with the lady of pain, which means she's going after the squishies. Now, there's 3 things she does that can lower those squishies effectiveness:

1. Knockdown

2. Clear out

3. Interrupt

After that, I can only rely on interrupts if shet hit the fan and I had to use all of my stuff on not enough stuff, if you know what I'm saying... Perma prone locking someone after the 1st knockdown should be pretty feasible even without disciplined barrage, until they're dead (pesky wizards generaly). I still haven't made the decision, nor have I braved the white forge yet in this run, so no durgan available yet.

Why do you fancy on crit effects with barbarian other than carnage?

[limaxophobiacq]

Not one mention of Abydons Hammer? Does no one comment on it just because its so late in the game? Because I dont think any two-hander can really compete with it for a fighter. Sure others do more damage but with decent INT the Charge (with +4 might) into Ring of the Ancient Forge combo every encounter for easy 15 second large AoE stun is so much more impactfull than a little bit more weapon damage.

[Boeroer]

Yes, because it comes so late. You can get Tidefall and Hours of St. Rumbalt so early. It's always a hard time for me to decide between Hours and Tidefall. A fighter with maxed ACC is great for Hours, while a fighter with maxed MIG is great for Tidefall. If you have both it's really hard. Especially because Hours also has annihilation. Constant knockdowns with +50% base damage against high priority targets is great.

I guess it comes down to your INT: if it is low then Tidefall (wounding damage gets applied more quickly) - if it's high then Hours (prone lasts longer).

Edited January 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[rheingold]

 

I'm not crazy about "on critt effects" with few exceptions, mainly for barabarian which benefit hugely from them due to carnage. Also a stormcaller ranger. Beyond that, for melee in particular, I think it's hard to beat tidefall. Blade from the endless paths is good, except it's a single damage type which is not great. Also depending on your build and Durgan steel requirements you may not need the speed buff.

Again Hours of St Rumbaldt is probably the best weapon ( with tall grass) for barbarian but I'd rather kill single targets quicker than knock them on their ass....

So tidefalls nice

 

Thing is, while doing buns of damage is indeed nice, I focus on targeting priority targets (when possible) with the lady of pain, which means she's going after the squishies. Now, there's 3 things she does that can lower those squishies effectiveness:

1. Knockdown

2. Clear out

3. Interrupt

After that, I can only rely on interrupts if shet hit the fan and I had to use all of my stuff on not enough stuff, if you know what I'm saying... Perma prone locking someone after the 1st knockdown should be pretty feasible even without disciplined barrage, until they're dead (pesky wizards generaly). I still haven't made the decision, nor have I braved the white forge yet in this run, so no durgan available yet.

Why do you fancy on crit effects with barbarian other than carnage?

Well it's just carnage really, barbarians don't have great base accuracy but with decent perception they do fine. But carnage, (and HOF) are ridiculously powerful. I just find that while prone or stun are great, if it's a choice between more damage or the effect I'd rather go more damage, unless the character in question has carnage. But it also depends on party composition. If you have a ranger then tidefall is even better, and the ranger can then use stormcaller. Otherwise the ranger could use persistence for wounding. But the thing is, there are so many options, and to be honest they don't really make a massive difference in the end, so I'd probably go with what looks cooler....

[Boeroer]

That is absolutely right. If it looks crappy I don't use it.

 

One reason why I don't use Drawn in Spring too often...

 

The White Crest armor + helmet + White Spire look so good together and are also good items by themselves. I love that combo.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Boeroer

[zeldagaiden]

 

 

I'm not crazy about "on critt effects" with few exceptions, mainly for barabarian which benefit hugely from them due to carnage. Also a stormcaller ranger. Beyond that, for melee in particular, I think it's hard to beat tidefall. Blade from the endless paths is good, except it's a single damage type which is not great. Also depending on your build and Durgan steel requirements you may not need the speed buff.

Again Hours of St Rumbaldt is probably the best weapon ( with tall grass) for barbarian but I'd rather kill single targets quicker than knock them on their ass....

So tidefalls nice

Thing is, while doing buns of damage is indeed nice, I focus on targeting priority targets (when possible) with the lady of pain, which means she's going after the squishies. Now, there's 3 things she does that can lower those squishies effectiveness:

1. Knockdown

2. Clear out

3. Interrupt

After that, I can only rely on interrupts if shet hit the fan and I had to use all of my stuff on not enough stuff, if you know what I'm saying... Perma prone locking someone after the 1st knockdown should be pretty feasible even without disciplined barrage, until they're dead (pesky wizards generaly). I still haven't made the decision, nor have I braved the white forge yet in this run, so no durgan available yet.

Why do you fancy on crit effects with barbarian other than carnage?

Well it's just carnage really, barbarians don't have great base accuracy but with decent perception they do fine. But carnage, (and HOF) are ridiculously powerful. I just find that while prone or stun are great, if it's a choice between more damage or the effect I'd rather go more damage, unless the character in question has carnage. But it also depends on party composition. If you have a ranger then tidefall is even better, and the ranger can then use stormcaller. Otherwise the ranger could use persistence for wounding. But the thing is, there are so many options, and to be honest they don't really make a massive difference in the end, so I'd probably go with what looks cooler....

 

 

Another thing, I make it a quest for myself to not use paralize scrolls for dragon fights. I haven't faced any dragon so far on this run (went to the sky temple to get the final enchant on stormcaller and that was it ). I guess I'm going with Boeroer's advice on stats, I have decent int for lasting prones and other effects (barrage and defense buff), so I'm guessing I'll go with Hours

[rheingold]

That is absolutely right. If it looks crappy I don't use it.

One reason why I don't use Drawn in Spring too often...

The White Crest armor + helmet + White Spire look so good together and are also good items by themselves. I love that combo.

Especially on a pale elf!

[Boeroer]

Whom you can't see under all that armor. But without the helmet: yes! With a beard please!

[zeldagaiden]

There should be an ATLEAST helm off option.....

[JerekKruger]

There should be an ATLEAST helm off option.....

 

You can type the command "HelmetVisibility False" into the console to achieve this. It doesn't require the "iroll20s" command so doesn't disable achievements.

[zeldagaiden]

Good to know, I like solidarity in runs with godlikes. Also.... having a friggin plate helm on a cloth/leather armor fella isnt really my thing..