Politics 2016

[Raithe]

See, that's one of the things I find interesting.  The "anglo" while rooted in the idea of the anglo-saxon background.. the anglo in America seems to be a very unique culture of its own rather than having specific English roots. The whole WASP thing is just so... American.

[Blarghagh]

Well, Americans don't celebrate their freedom from the Irish or Italians every 4th of July. The British man is still a classic villain trope in American popular culture. Color me unsurprised that people don't view it as a source of pride.

[Raithe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

[Guard Dog]

Roger Cohen of the New York Times wrote another 1300 words on how the sky is falling. Perhaps it even is. But it didn't JUST start happening with Brexit as he says without saying. He is lamenting the death of liberalism and the rise or authoritarianism. In the US for people of his ilk that begins with the election of Trump. While I will agree Trump is telegraphing a definite authoritarian bent (remember he has not take office yet so who knows) Cohen absolutely ignores the authoritarian leaving office. Barack Obama has been the most illiberal (in the classic sense of the word) US President since maybe FDR. I can not think of a single instance in nearly eight years where he was a champion of individual rights and liberty over his perception of "public good" (which is Democrat code for government power).   

 

Can anyone help me out here? Can anyone think of a single instance where Obama came down of the site of the individual over the desires of the State or body politic?

 

Anyway here is Cohen's latest anxiety attack if you want to read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/the-rage-of-2016.html?WT.mc_id=2016-KWP-AUD_DEV&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&kwp_0=288852&kwp_4=1109865&kwp_1=513968&_r=0

[Hurlshort]

You can argue the stance he took on gay marriage was on the side of the individual rights over the state.  Although plenty of state governments would complain about that it was the Federal government violating their rights.  It's a tough question because pretty much and action the President takes can be construed flexing government power.  

[algroth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Obola favors individual rights for what he perceives are victim groups, not so much for anyone else. Also he didn't enforce marijuana laws, so there's an example. Of course I would argue that flaunting the law is the greatest threat to everyone's rights in the long term.

 

Depending how you look at it, Hillary's popular vote margin came entirely from California: http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/

 

Also as the article points out, because of how California election system works, Republicans don't have much of a reason to vote at all.

 

Edit: Actually it occurs to me to make the comparison fair, you'd have to take out the most Republican states with combined population equal to California, then compare the totals, although that still leaves the question of how many illegal aliens voted, or more accurately non-citizens.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon

[BruceVC]

Roger Cohen of the New York Times wrote another 1300 words on how the sky is falling. Perhaps it even is. But it didn't JUST start happening with Brexit as he says without saying. He is lamenting the death of liberalism and the rise or authoritarianism. In the US for people of his ilk that begins with the election of Trump. While I will agree Trump is telegraphing a definite authoritarian bent (remember he has not take office yet so who knows) Cohen absolutely ignores the authoritarian leaving office. Barack Obama has been the most illiberal (in the classic sense of the word) US President since maybe FDR. I can not think of a single instance in nearly eight years where he was a champion of individual rights and liberty over his perception of "public good" (which is Democrat code for government power).   

 

Can anyone help me out here? Can anyone think of a single instance where Obama came down of the site of the individual over the desires of the State or body politic?

 

Anyway here is Cohen's latest anxiety attack if you want to read it. http://www.

 

Roger Cohen of the New York Times wrote another 1300 words on how the sky is falling. Perhaps it even is. But it didn't JUST start happening with Brexit as he says without saying. He is lamenting the death of liberalism and the rise or authoritarianism. In the US for people of his ilk that begins with the election of Trump. While I will agree Trump is telegraphing a definite authoritarian bent (remember he has not take office yet so who knows) Cohen absolutely ignores the authoritarian leaving office. Barack Obama has been the most illiberal (in the classic sense of the word) US President since maybe FDR. I can not think of a single instance in nearly eight years where he was a champion of individual rights and liberty over his perception of "public good" (which is Democrat code for government power).   

 

Can anyone help me out here? Can anyone think of a single instance where Obama came down of the site of the individual over the desires of the State or body politic?

 

Anyway here is Cohen's latest anxiety attack if you want to read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/the-rage-of-2016.html?WT.mc_id=2016-KWP-AUD_DEV&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&kwp_0=288852&kwp_4=1109865&kwp_1=513968&_r=0

 

I still firmly believe that history will remember Obama very positively, he did a lot for the USA but its not his time now. We need to discuss Trump

 

I am the first one to admit for 9 months I and many people who share my views had a false view of what Trump stood for, we were distracted and institutions like the global media focused on the perceived SJ influence of Trump instead of his core policies....which actually should have been the talking points but its not our fault as Trumps antics were politically unprecedented

 

Anyway once Trump won the election it was almost immediately  obvious he had no intention of implementing or doing most of the controversial things he alluded to or claimed to believe , for me this was a good thing so Trump has so far only done positive or expected things 

 

It would be inaccurate to believe the " sky is falling in the USA  " because we cannot or rather shouldn't judge him on his election bravado. We obviously need to judge him on his decisions going forward. I am not surprised by his cabinet, yes they basically all white but most of them are billionaires or highly successful men in corporate world 

 

I like the corporate world so I am supportive of this, if anything its some of his supporters who should feel used and manipulated as they actually believed the whole " I'll drain the swamp " BS  

[BruceVC]

Obola favors individual rights for what he perceives are victim groups, not so much for anyone else. Also he didn't enforce marijuana laws, so there's an example. Of course I would argue that flaunting the law is the greatest threat to everyone's rights in the long term.

 

Depending how you look at it, Hillary's popular vote margin came entirely from California: http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/its-official-clintons-popular-vote-win-came-entirely-from-california/

 

Also as the article points out, because of how California election system works, Republicans don't have much of a reason to vote at all.

 

Edit: Actually it occurs to me to make the comparison fair, you'd have to take out the most Republican states with combined population equal to California, then compare the totals, although that still leaves the question of how many illegal aliens voted.

WOD  that reminds me ....I see now California wants to leave the USA. I warned you about this remember, I said what if California now thinks its unwanted because you guys keep saying "  we dont care if  California leaves " 

 

Do you feel guilty ?

[BruceVC]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Brexit, only some supporters on both sides share some ideological views but the 2 events were done for different reasons and supported for different reasons 

 

I can see how the 2 events may seem similar but to explain why they not  the same in a easy way

 

• Brexit was fundamentally about one of the worlds most historically significant countries  and currently powerful countries  wanting to make there own laws and be governed by there own parliament. They are entitled to want this and aspire politically to this. Of course the EU is a successful trade block so the UK has some economic exposure but it will persevere. This is a permanent decision and will impact generations in a positive way IMO
• The rise of Trump is more of a political upheaval and attack on the current US  political establishments ...it appears many Americans are unhappy with where the country was and is going. But worse case Trump will be gone in 4 years and we go back to the normal and understandable US political systems.Trump is not going to fundamentally change or destroy parts of the USA

Edited December 18, 2016 by BruceVC

[algroth]

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Brexit, only some supporters on both sides share some ideological views but the 2 events were done for different reasons and supported for different reasons 

 

I can see how the 2 events may seem similar but to explain why they not  the same in a easy way

 

• Brexit was fundamentally about one of the worlds most historically significant countries  and currently powerful countries  wanting to make there own laws and be governed by there own parliament. They are entitled to want this and aspire politically to this. Of course the EU is a successful trade block so the UK has some economic exposure but it will persevere. This is a permanent decision and will impact generations in a positive way IMO
• The rise of Trump is more of a political upheaval and attack on the current US  political establishments ...it appears many Americans are unhappy with where the country was and is going. But worse case Trump will be gone in 4 years and we go back to the normal and understandable US political systems.Trump is not going to fundamentally change or destroy parts of the USA

 

I wasn't compariing Trump to Brexit, aside from the attitude I see following the results for both (and other elections too). I was just making a point I see about elections in general.

[BruceVC]

You can argue the stance he took on gay marriage was on the side of the individual rights over the state.  Although plenty of state governments would complain about that it was the Federal government violating their rights.  It's a tough question because pretty much and action the President takes can be construed flexing government power.  

Some people argued it was Federal overreach but there are some matters that quite simply couldn't be left up to the individual states to " do the right thing " 

 

Gay marriage is one of those things

[Wrath of Dagon]

WOD  that reminds me ....I see now California wants to leave the USA. I warned you about this remember, I said what if California now thinks its unwanted because you guys keep saying "  we dont care if  California leaves " 

 

Do you feel guilty ?

No, I feel great. Not that there's a chance California would leave, but I wish they would and create the People's Republic they always wanted. Edited December 18, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Brexit, only some supporters on both sides share some ideological views but the 2 events were done for different reasons and supported for different reasons 

 

I can see how the 2 events may seem similar but to explain why they not  the same in a easy way

 

• Brexit was fundamentally about one of the worlds most historically significant countries  and currently powerful countries  wanting to make there own laws and be governed by there own parliament. They are entitled to want this and aspire politically to this. Of course the EU is a successful trade block so the UK has some economic exposure but it will persevere. This is a permanent decision and will impact generations in a positive way IMO
• The rise of Trump is more of a political upheaval and attack on the current US  political establishments ...it appears many Americans are unhappy with where the country was and is going. But worse case Trump will be gone in 4 years and we go back to the normal and understandable US political systems.Trump is not going to fundamentally change or destroy parts of the USA

 

I wasn't compariing Trump to Brexit, aside from the attitude I see following the results for both (and other elections too). I was just making a point I see about elections in general.

 

You said  " my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit "...what did you mean by that ?

 

I am not criticizing you  by the way as many people are saying Trump and Brexit are the same and we should discuss this 

[algroth]

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Brexit, only some supporters on both sides share some ideological views but the 2 events were done for different reasons and supported for different reasons 

 

I can see how the 2 events may seem similar but to explain why they not  the same in a easy way

 

• Brexit was fundamentally about one of the worlds most historically significant countries  and currently powerful countries  wanting to make there own laws and be governed by there own parliament. They are entitled to want this and aspire politically to this. Of course the EU is a successful trade block so the UK has some economic exposure but it will persevere. This is a permanent decision and will impact generations in a positive way IMO
• The rise of Trump is more of a political upheaval and attack on the current US  political establishments ...it appears many Americans are unhappy with where the country was and is going. But worse case Trump will be gone in 4 years and we go back to the normal and understandable US political systems.Trump is not going to fundamentally change or destroy parts of the USA

 

I wasn't compariing Trump to Brexit, aside from the attitude I see following the results for both (and other elections too). I was just making a point I see about elections in general.

 

You said  " my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit "...what did you mean by that ?

 

I am not criticizing you  by the way as many people are saying Trump and Brexit are the same and we should discuss this 

 

Oh, it's just Pie in the video saying he's tired of seeing everything being linked backed to Brexit and so on. What I meant is that I have no opinion as to how Brexit is affecting the UK currently because I haven't been following the matter all that closely.

[BruceVC]

 

WOD  that reminds me ....I see now California wants to leave the USA. I warned you about this remember, I said what if California now thinks its unwanted because you guys keep saying "  we dont care if  California leaves " 

 

Do you feel guilty ?

No, I feel great. Not that there's a chance California would leave, but I wish they would and create the People's Republic they always wanted.

 

I was just teasing you because it was very interesting that you and Hurlshot were joking about this and then a few weeks later I watched this interview with this   " California representative of why they need to leave " 

 

I like California and always have but this guy had no clue what he was saying, basically he said  "  we want to leave the USA  not because of Trump but because we are not aligned to the future of the USA " !!!

 

Since when? Oh wait since Trump won and now that means California needs to secede.....its such an over reaction its a joke 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMbrmnoGkE

 

One thing I hate about the argument of "you voted and you lost, get over it" is that these aren't matters to just let slide when you don't get your way. This isn't some football match where your team's lost, this is serious stuff that has an impact in your way of living and that of everyone in your country, so of course arguing against the popular vote is not only sensible, it is necessary. If everyone just accepted the way things were because they "lost", would we have much of a democracy at all nowadays?

 

Of course, this runs parallel to my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit or whether Britain should form part of the EU once more (I don't feel like I know enough about the matter to give an informed opinion either way). I just see things like this being said after every election there is and think it's a rubbish argument to make. If they believe Brexit is to do with it and that it should not have gone the way it did, it is within their power to still protest it regardless of any popular vote.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Trump to Brexit, only some supporters on both sides share some ideological views but the 2 events were done for different reasons and supported for different reasons 

 

I can see how the 2 events may seem similar but to explain why they not  the same in a easy way

 

• Brexit was fundamentally about one of the worlds most historically significant countries  and currently powerful countries  wanting to make there own laws and be governed by there own parliament. They are entitled to want this and aspire politically to this. Of course the EU is a successful trade block so the UK has some economic exposure but it will persevere. This is a permanent decision and will impact generations in a positive way IMO
• The rise of Trump is more of a political upheaval and attack on the current US  political establishments ...it appears many Americans are unhappy with where the country was and is going. But worse case Trump will be gone in 4 years and we go back to the normal and understandable US political systems.Trump is not going to fundamentally change or destroy parts of the USA

 

I wasn't compariing Trump to Brexit, aside from the attitude I see following the results for both (and other elections too). I was just making a point I see about elections in general.

 

You said  " my opinion of whether everything should be blamed on Brexit "...what did you mean by that ?

 

I am not criticizing you  by the way as many people are saying Trump and Brexit are the same and we should discuss this 

 

Oh, it's just Pie in the video saying he's tired of seeing everything being linked backed to Brexit and so on. What I meant is that I have no opinion as to how Brexit is affecting the UK currently because I haven't been following the matter all that closely.

 

Oh my bad, I did misunderstand you

[algroth]

Probably just me expressing myself poorly. :D

[Volourn]

"I still firmly believe that history will remember Obama very positively, he did a lot for the USA but its not his time now."

 

Nah. he is the ONLY president to allow a forgein government to hack an US election. that alone tarnishes his legacy and makes him the worse president OF ALL TIME.

 

History will confirm that Obama's only worthile  thing he did arguably for the US is being black. That's it. That's his big addition to the US.  He said so himswelf when he proclaimed that his legacy was dependent on Hilalry being president. EPIC FAIL.

 

Obama is a president who brags about murdering Amerikans through  drone strikes without trial. HOW IS THAT POSITIVE? Obamacare was so hamfisted and poorly done in FORCING people like slaves to pay for super expensive insurance they can't afford and patting himself on the back for 'progess'. LMAO And, even that is gonan be cut  BIGLY.

 

How many countries did he intervere with? How many  terrorists did he give weapons go? He basically helped create ISIS. He is also a lair who claims the Unemployment Rate is low but that is only through spin and misleading info. LMAO

 

He has   approved of the cold blooded murder of cops, has pushed hateful racist politics, he has approved of fake news, and believes in  banning all media and opinions he does not agree with. he basically is trying to give away the US' control of the internet to other coutnries which is insane. he allowed himself to be blackmailed into giving iran a ridiculous amount of money. He's a flip flopper who just 4 years ago attacked Repu7blicans for trying to restart the Col war yet now as he is leaving he and his cronies are trying to restart it and gonna force the new President to clean up his mess after Obama  proclaimed war on Russia.

 

LMAO Positve L0L

 

HAHAHAHAHHA

[BruceVC]

"I still firmly believe that history will remember Obama very positively, he did a lot for the USA but its not his time now."

 

Nah. he is the ONLY president to allow a forgein government to hack an US election. that alone tarnishes his legacy and makes him the worse president OF ALL TIME.

 

History will confirm that Obama's only worthile  thing he did arguably for the US is being black. That's it. That's his big addition to the US.  He said so himswelf when he proclaimed that his legacy was dependent on Hilalry being president. EPIC FAIL.

 

Obama is a president who brags about murdering Amerikans through  drone strikes without trial. HOW IS THAT POSITIVE? Obamacare was so hamfisted and poorly done in FORCING people like slaves to pay for super expensive insurance they can't afford and patting himself on the back for 'progess'. LMAO And, even that is gonan be cut  BIGLY.

 

How many countries did he intervere with? How many  terrorists did he give weapons go? He basically helped create ISIS. He is also a lair who claims the Unemployment Rate is low but that is only through spin and misleading info. LMAO

 

He has   approved of the cold blooded murder of cops, has pushed hateful racist politics, he has approved of fake news, and believes in  banning all media and opinions he does not agree with. he basically is trying to give away the US' control of the internet to other coutnries which is insane. he allowed himself to be blackmailed into giving iran a ridiculous amount of money. He's a flip flopper who just 4 years ago attacked Repu7blicans for trying to restart the Col war yet now as he is leaving he and his cronies are trying to restart it and gonna force the new President to clean up his mess after Obama  proclaimed war on Russia.

 

LMAO Positve L0L

 

HAHAHAHAHHA

This entire post is so full of inaccurate comments and classic uninformed " Obama bashing "  I feel you are making it just to annoy me 

 

Now I wont take the bait .....unless other people also share your view then I can dispute it. I cannot find one thing you have said that is true or you will be able to prove ....seriously not one 

[BruceVC]

Probably just me expressing myself poorly. :D

No this is all me, I went back and reread your point and you were clear on the overall point

 

I jumped to conclusions but actually I skimmed through the first paragraph which I why i made assumptions

[Guard Dog]

@ Bruce & Hurlshot

 

I've changed my mind a little bit about Obgerfell. Not about whether Gay Marriage should be allowed mind you. Consenting adults should be free to live their lives in any way that seems best to them. Rather I've changed my mind on Obgerfell being a judicial overreach and in violation of the 10th Amendment. A marriage, when you get right down to it, is a contract. And the regulation of contracts is the purview of State governments which means the 10th Amendment should prohibit any Federal interference if a State like California lawfully votes not to permit a particular type of contract. So on that note alone the 6th Circuit Court and the SCOTUS would have been wrong to even hear the case once the Ohio (where the main plaintiff originally filed IIRC)  Supreme Court ruled against them.

 

But here is the thing, a marriage contract is not just between two people. The state is also involved because there are tax and civil benefits provided to the participants by the state. Now there is a clause in Article 4 of the US Constitution called the Full Faith and Credit clause that directs all states to honor the judicial proceeding and public acts of every other state. Well if a marriage is a judicial proceeding (it is) and the State is a participatory of that proceeding (it is) then a gay couple married in Hawaii would have to have their marriage recognized by other States like Ohio. Otherwise it becomes a 14th Amendment issue which is the hook the court hung it's hat on when it ruled in Obgerfell.

 

That decision was more of a compromise than a "do the right thing" kind of act. You could either have it everywhere or have it nowhere. The court decided it was less disruptive and legally sound to permit it everywhere because that was the way the wind was blowing anyway. In another 10 years it would have been legal everywhere anyway.

 

But there was another way to go that I wish had been considered. Get the government out of marriage altogether. If the state was not in the business of sanctioning and rewarding marriages none of this would have happened. If a marriage was nothing more than an agreement between to adults of legal age there would have been complete equality not just among married couples but also between married and unmarried individuals. The only reason this was a problem is the governments involvement in it. Extract that one detail and it would always have been legal. Free people should not have to ask the State's permission to enter an agreement. Even if the granting was assured and the process just a formality it rubs me the wrong way.

 

Just my $.02

[Zoraptor]

"Nah. he is the ONLY president to allow a forgein government to hack an US election."
 
Having watched his press conference I'm not sure what Obama's position actually is, since he says that Wikileaks had the DNC leaks before the Russians did the hacking, to whit:
 

And finally, I think it's worth pointing out, that the information was already out. It was in the hands of Wikileaks, so that was going to come out no matter what.

Which fits perfectly with Seth Rich leaking the docs as Assange claimed, but not with Russia 'hacking' the DNC to influence anything as pretty much everyone else is claiming. And at least like General Hayden admitting the US won the 1996 election for that inebriated cretin Boris Yeltsin he's passably honest, on that at least.

 

That only leaves John 'p@ssw0rd' Podesta's emails being hacked as potentially the Russian's responsibility and there's literally nothing you can do to stop a private individual working for a private entity being that sort of abject moran. Seems there's been a deliberate policy to obfuscate from Hillary's supporters in the press with selective leaking to target and dicredit two of their favourites: Wikileaks and Russia.

 

Indeed, Politifact [sic] went so far as claiming Podesta's emails were released to obfuscate Trump's "grab them by the [kitty cat]" video using a WL tweet on their release as reference. Unfortunately, Wikileaks actually released them hours before making the announcement tweet and thus before that video was released- so if there was obfuscation going on it had to be in the reverse direction. A such I rate Politifact's fact check as: complete bollocks.

[Guard Dog]

 

Roger Cohen of the New York Times wrote another 1300 words on how the sky is falling. Perhaps it even is. But it didn't JUST start happening with Brexit as he says without saying. He is lamenting the death of liberalism and the rise or authoritarianism. In the US for people of his ilk that begins with the election of Trump. While I will agree Trump is telegraphing a definite authoritarian bent (remember he has not take office yet so who knows) Cohen absolutely ignores the authoritarian leaving office. Barack Obama has been the most illiberal (in the classic sense of the word) US President since maybe FDR. I can not think of a single instance in nearly eight years where he was a champion of individual rights and liberty over his perception of "public good" (which is Democrat code for government power).   

 

Can anyone help me out here? Can anyone think of a single instance where Obama came down of the site of the individual over the desires of the State or body politic?

 

Anyway here is Cohen's latest anxiety attack if you want to read it. http://www.

 

Roger Cohen of the New York Times wrote another 1300 words on how the sky is falling. Perhaps it even is. But it didn't JUST start happening with Brexit as he says without saying. He is lamenting the death of liberalism and the rise or authoritarianism. In the US for people of his ilk that begins with the election of Trump. While I will agree Trump is telegraphing a definite authoritarian bent (remember he has not take office yet so who knows) Cohen absolutely ignores the authoritarian leaving office. Barack Obama has been the most illiberal (in the classic sense of the word) US President since maybe FDR. I can not think of a single instance in nearly eight years where he was a champion of individual rights and liberty over his perception of "public good" (which is Democrat code for government power).   

 

Can anyone help me out here? Can anyone think of a single instance where Obama came down of the site of the individual over the desires of the State or body politic?

 

Anyway here is Cohen's latest anxiety attack if you want to read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/the-rage-of-2016.html?WT.mc_id=2016-KWP-AUD_DEV&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&kwp_0=288852&kwp_4=1109865&kwp_1=513968&_r=0

 

I still firmly believe that history will remember Obama very positively, he did a lot for the USA but its not his time now. We need to discuss Trump

 

 

I'm not so sure on this one. It's going to take the passage of time before we get a good feel for Obama's impact on history. Even with George W Bush it's still to early to really say. Although it's not looking good for him. One thing we do know about Obama, he spent a lot of the taxpayers money. He added $7.917 Trillion to the national debt. That isn't how much he spent, that is how much he spent that created unfunded liabilities. A 68% increase over George W Bush. he has added more debt in real dollars that all 43 previous Presidents before him combined. And he did this after cutting defense spending (the largest single category) by 15% per year, every year after 2011. That is a problem. A big problem that will need to be solved. The Affordable Care Act was supposed to be budget neutral and was actually supposed to reduce the debt by $140B or so per year. That didn't happen. Quite the opposite. So economically (at least in terms of things he can control) we are in a worse position. Some things are better. Total tax revenues are up which means the tax base is larger than when he took office. That is definitely a positive. And that is after he cut taxes at least eight times (in different areas). But the net result with unfunded debt is a negative.

 

His signature achievement is the ACA. It made affordable healthcare available for the 30 million or so Americans who had no health coverage before the law passed. But the down side is by subsidizing their costs he made it unaffordable for four times that many  and indeed cost many hard working Americans their employer provided coverage and even their employment as companies struggled to cover the drastically increased costs. I can speak to that personally. It was one of the conditions that led to me losing my job a few years ago. Whatever else you might say about the ACA, it cannot be denied it is hugely unpopular and the promise to stop and replace it was a big factor in the Republicans electoral success. I think it's safe to say it's days are numbered which will not bode well for his historical legacy.

 

One other thing that must be considered is this. In 2008 when he was elected President the Democrat Party Controlled 235 of the 433 seats in the House of Representatives. 59 of 100 seats in the Senate (a year later it would be 60, a filibuster proof Supermajority), and 27 of 50 states were entirely controlled by the Democrats (Governor, Secretary, and State Legislatures). The Democrats had majority control (Governor and split legislatures ) in another nine states. The Republicans had total control or split control in just 14 states. Since then the Democrat Party has lost over 900 seats in State Legislatures, The Republican Party has complete control of 33 States and split control of eight more. The Democrats have complete control of California, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Hawaii. That is it. In the south and midwest the Democrat legislative minorities are so small that in some states the party has essentially ceased to exist as a political force. That is a complete and total repudiation of the Democrat brand no matter how you look at it. As the de facto leader of the Democrats and the standard bearer for the Party that has to be lain on Barack Obama's door.

 

Like I said, it's too early to say how history will actually remember him. But right now it isn't looking good.

[Raithe]