no gold on replay except on legendary: why?

[LordHelmchen]

Greetings!

 

While waiting for FotSG to release, I finally scraped up enough gold to aquire the Character deck (yay for daily challenge rewards!) and put my original party to rest while the new kids catch up in feats. Which now brings me to a conumdrum:

I need (and want, it's great fun to have to play with new strategies to accomodate another set of abilities) the new chars to go trough the story from the start, so they can earn their feats. Legendary mode is not feasible for them yet, but none of them have completed the missions on normal.

On the other hand, I need to build up new gold reserves so I can get FotSG when it finally arrives. Sadly, that means grinding with my established party on legendary...

 

What I'd propose is to award gold for completed scenarios on low and medium difficulty if none of the characters in the party have already completed that scenario, instead of only award the gold when the player has never completed it. It's sill less gold than farming Poison Pill on Legendary, but way more fun to actually play the game, while still coming with a tangible reward for succeeding.

 

Looking forward to reading other player's opinion and dev's rationale for not doing it this way in the first place )

 

Regards,

LordHelmchen

[Gilmamesh]

I love story mode and is fun to create a new team to use different strategies, i still haven't unlocked act 3 nor Valeros and Harsk, not even talk about the chest or the soon to be release act 4. So is a shame that i don't get a bonus gold while playing my favorite mode, i don't mind if the reward is something like 40 normal, 70 Heroic but at least its something.

 

Quest mode is fun but less fun that story so its sad to have to play the less enjoyable mode because is the mode that i can start with a fresh team/strategy and still get gold.

[Lemantia]

You should keep in mind that this game is free, and all content can be unlocked for free by doing a little bit of gold grinding. But that doesn't mean that gold should be easy to get, or even that anything you do should deserve some gold.

 

Also, you DO get gold replaying on normal/hard: defeated monsters as well as obtained boons that you won't keep gives you gold, which ranges from 30 to 60 (depending on size of your party, quickness to close a location, and so on).

 

I get your point, and I tend to buy characters a few at a time as well, but this is probably a business decision: gold is easily attainable, but you don't want to make *too* easily obtainable, otherwise the incentive to buy gold disappear, and with it the income of the game.

[RedPred]

I don't know if something changed but when I was unlocking characters a couple of months ago, I could play only normal scenarios, again and again with the modified crew adding the new entry. So, I always got the gold for normal difficulties also if there were characters that already completed all the available scenarios and also if the report says 0 gold in the end. I always thought it was an issue in the UI. And I really bought all the characters in that way in a month (so there were always a new character in my party), so we could count ~2000 gold replaying from AD0 to AD3.

 

Now the scenario selection screen shows a gold reward for every difficult you can select. So it seems logical to me that in the end you get it effectively for all the difficulties. The rest is just an UI bug in my opinion. Devs never confirmed or denied that in last threads I read about it..

 

But you can write down the gold you have, win a normal difficulty with experienced characters and a new one (that hasn't already completed that scenario), return to main screen and check the gold change. Some gold is for surplus cards you discarded in the end and some other is for bane defeated and locations closed, so you have to pay a little attention to gold earned during the game. But if you play with a small party at normal difficulty that gold surplus is quite low (~50).

 

Then I m not playing at the moment waiting for AD4 and new patch, but others players could have already verified it to confirm or not.

[LordHelmchen]

Just verified: it's not just a display bug. No gold awarded on nomal difficulty. Player had already cleared the quest, but none of the characters had.

Which feels kinda wrong. I very much appreciate that it is at least possible to grind gold by repeating szenarios on legendary, but if the dev's are ok with that, I doubt that there would be a problem with awarding gold on less-than-legendary if none of the participating chars has completed the scenario. From a pure gold-per-playtime perspective, it's less efficient to grind by staring over with fresh chars again and again, but it would feel much more rewarding when playing with your newly bought chars for the first time.

[RedPred]

I agree absolutely.

If it's supposed to play the tabletop game only at legendary difficult, then it could be motivated. But otherwise it's just a penalty for players that prefer to play for fun and relax with normal-heroic difficulties.

And if the UI indicates a reward at scenario selection screen and then you don't get it when you have won.... that is an issue too.

[Loswaith]

You should keep in mind that this game is free, and all content can be unlocked for free by doing a little bit of gold grinding. But that doesn't mean that gold should be easy to get, or even that anything you do should deserve some gold.

...

 

I'd hate to see what you consider alot of grinding for gold, when it is about 25 games (on average of 150 gold per game) to just enough for one more scenario, plus about ~10 missions per character and many more for chests, and even then you miss out on the bonus cards.  

 

All in all that is about 230+ successful missions  to just unlock the characters (with character pack) and missions.  Then there is random chests on top of that.

So if we presume about 20 minutes per game that is 75+ hours of playing just to unlock everything presuming not even a single failed mission (which is really unlikely) and before you have even bought a single chest.  Realistically though with failures and longer play times due to learning, certain wildcard combos and general interruptions to connection/play time efficiency, we are easily looking 100+ hours just to unlock the characters and missions.

 

Seems quite alot of grinding for a tablet/phone game let alone a good chunk for a PC game.

 

Even if the lower difficulty story missions did give the same gold for replaying, as they do the first time, it would take even more time to unlock everything.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Loswaith

[Bajie]

You know you get gold on banishing banes, right? Around 1-3 gold per?

Also in closing locations. 11gp each time,I think.

Also excess card at the end of scenario converts to gold?

 

And once you add a third hero to your party, all those above increase also which means more gold.

 

With your example of 100+ hours of gameplay to unlock everything (which excludes all the gold generation i've listed) thats roughly 3 months if you play an hour a day..the same wait, everyone is waiting for AD4 from the original plan up to now. Thats why most consider the game very generous with gold, because 3 month to unlock everything for free while casually playing is too fast if purely being practical (F2P)

[RedPred]

I think devs really want to move players to play Legendary difficult. That has sense but at the same time, there are players that prefer to play a more relaxing way collecting money or simply have trouble with Legendary first months.

 

P2P players too have the gold collection problem because they probably want complete the Gallery/Vault and really need thousands of chests.

 

At the beginning then you have to repeat many times Normal/Heroic scenarios to level up your new characters with no powers, no abilities and poor short decks, so collecting some gold to purchase a couple of chest sometimes really help a lot to make the game less monotonous..

[Loswaith]

You know you get gold on banishing banes, right? Around 1-3 gold per?

Also in closing locations. 11gp each time,I think.

Also excess card at the end of scenario converts to gold?

 

And once you add a third hero to your party, all those above increase also which means more gold.

 

..

Actually those small amounts are counted for because all that is rounded down and conservative (though its unreliable that you will defeat all banes).  Likewise you only get 100 gold for normal missions as well.

Actually you only get 5 gold for closing a location, thus for starting players that is 15 gold at best.

Also you don't get any gold for excess cards on a scenario completion.

 

Likewise adding a third character increases your chances to fail and makes the game longer as well (thus taking even more time).

 

Keep in mind those calculations are with 100% success rate (very unrealistic) and rounding down and presuming they never buy chests.

 

So why exactly (given it takes that long already with legendary) would it be so bad to take even longer to get there playing missions players are actually going to enjoy playing?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Loswaith

[RedPred]

Also excess card at the end of scenario converts to gold?

 

 

Not anymore. Devs removed that with this patch (officially confirmed by Nathan in an other thread).

And we talk of -100/150 gold per single legendary scenario with a 6-party.

 

Until yesterday I wan't interested at all in Daily challenge because they were automatically collected or they could reduce my gold/time outcome (about 500 gold per 30 minutes to make it clear) asking for solo-mission or specific scenarios ... Now I m still not interested at all in Daily challenge because they are automatic or reduce my gold/time outcome... but I get less gold too!!!

 

Now, the patch is tried, there are new issues in the game and I got a bad penalty.... so I m waiting for AD4 reading news in the forum and helping new players when possible..

[Lemantia]

 

 

You should keep in mind that this game is free, and all content can be unlocked for free by doing a little bit of gold grinding. But that doesn't mean that gold should be easy to get, or even that anything you do should deserve some gold.

...

I'd hate to see what you consider alot of grinding for gold, when it is about 25 games (on average of 150 gold per game) to just enough for one more scenario, plus about ~10 missions per character and many more for chests, and even then you miss out on the bonus cards.

 

All in all that is about 230+ successful missions to just unlock the characters (with character pack) and missions. Then there is random chests on top of that.

Except chests are totally optional, and of course unlocking everything for free should be a grind.

 

But if we talk only unlocking levels, that's currently 8750 gold (if I'm not mistaken), so roughly 60 games.

 

For this price, you get access to 18 levels (prologue + 3*5), with 3 difficulty levels each. So that's 54 games down. And almost zero grind.

 

So basically, the AD almost pay themselves by completing them up to legendary... You just need to save up for that first one.

 

And then buying characters is the grind, and it should be, otherwise there would be absolutely no point putting money into this game.

 

And making chests an alternative reward for those who unlocked everything seems fair enough.

[Bajie]

If we revert back to the earlier iteration of the game both AD and Character purchases rebates themselves making realmoney purchases less alluring

[Nathan Davis]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody. We will continue to tweak and tune the gold economy as we move forward. In general, gold has been easiest to get for players who came into the game early. Our goals are always to make products within the game worth purchasing while giving f2p players an enjoyable experience. It's a tricky balance to maintain, but is something we will always care about.

[quidproquo]

Thanks for all the feedback everybody. We will continue to tweak and tune the gold economy as we move forward. In general, gold has been easiest to get for players who came into the game early. Our goals are always to make products within the game worth purchasing while giving f2p players an enjoyable experience. It's a tricky balance to maintain, but is something we will always care about.

How about you worry less about tweaking gold for F2Pers and tweaking out AD4 for us shelled out the quiders? Not that I think anyone will listen to what I say, but it would be awesome if maybe gold tweaking could get a little less love so it can go to new material. Hmmmm? Aw hell, mate, read that with a mostly ironic voice. And only slightly actually irritated.

[RedPred]

But the main question is still unanswered... no gold replaying Normal/Heroic (for both P2P and F2P) is intentional or an issue?

 

And secondary, if a player is not confident to play Legendary what have to do? Pay money to buy 50 chests and becoming confident?? No logic in this....

[Hannibal_PJV]

It is intentional.

[RedPred]

You say that, and I believe and trust you mate. But they avoided a direct question again. Not respectful forwards customers and all supporters.

 

And the logic still miss, because with only gold reward for first run in Normal and Heroic with half AD released, the returned total gold is halved at the moment.

 

so we have:

18 available scenarios (AD0 to AD3) in Story

100 gold for Normal for every first run -> total 1800 gold

150 gold for Heroic for every first run -> total 2700 gold

 

For a P2P that is 10 chests and he has to play Legendary to get more chest or maybe Quest mode (they solved feat issues for real? no idea..)

And if you replay scenarios leveling new chars after fist run? .. still 0 reward! Or they think you can play with naked and under-powered char a Legendary difficulty? because a party has only 6 slots..

 

And in all cases, this is the first game that gives 0 reward if you play low difficulties! how odd it sounds if you think about it..

They are doing arguable design choice that doesn't satisfy players... what is the sense? To sell more Gold purchases in the market? 20.000 gold for 30$/€ ? that is it?

Edited September 13, 2016 by RedPred

[PRuano]

You say that, and I believe and trust you mate. But they avoided a direct question again. Not respectful forwards customers and all supporters.

 

And the logic still miss, because with only gold reward for first run in Normal and Heroic with half AD released, the returned total gold is halved at the moment.

 

so we have:

18 available scenarios (AD0 to AD3) in Story

100 gold for Normal for every first run -> total 1800 gold

150 gold for Heroic for every first run -> total 2700 gold

 

For a P2P that is 10 chests and he has to play Legendary to get more chest or maybe Quest mode (they solved feat issues for real? no idea..)

And if you replay scenarios leveling new chars after fist run? .. still 0 reward! Or they think you can play with naked and under-powered char a Legendary difficulty? because a party has only 6 slots..

 

And in all cases, this is the first game that gives 0 reward if you play low difficulties! how odd it sounds if you think about it..

They are doing arguable design choice that doesn't satisfy players... what is the sense? To sell more Gold purchases in the market? 20.000 gold for 30$/€ ? that is it?

Bitching because a FREE game doesnt give you more, and you dont want to pay for the developers hard work, thats why i hate f2p players.....

 

Its very simple, given the VERY GENEROUS f2p policy of this game, its totally possible to finish the game up to current state having a normal size party (4) with several chars to choose from TOTALLY FREE (AND STILL HAVE ENOUGH GOLD TO BUY GET THE REST OF THE ADs when they come FOR FREE) WITHOUT ALMOST NO GRINDING typical of f2p games.

 

You want to get more chars? Grind a LITTLE bit in Quest mode (or on Legendary, its EASY TO GAME IT WHICH IS WHY THEY CHANGED the gold distribution).

 

Or do the right thing, DROP SOME MONEY ON A GAME THAT ENTERTAINS YOU (if not, why spend precious time grinding and bitching here), get those things easier and give resources to the devs to bring more content and fix things faster (MORE REAL MONEY=MORE RESOURCES FOR DEV), and show that this game is profitable and worthy of further APs.

 

Want to try different combinations of parties? Play the AP with them, you wont get the gold, but IF WHAT YOU TRULY WANT is trying those different combinations, thres no point in gaining gold, since the chars update RPG like, with playing, which is what you will be doing.

 

Just STOP BITCHING of a game that is FREE and REQUIRES SO LITTLE compared to other f2p games.

Edited September 13, 2016 by PRuano

[RedPred]

 

 

 

Gold collections is for P2P as well ... have you ever tried to use brain before open mouth?

 

And I don't need more. I have all chars and unlocks... what are you shouting alone with imaginary statements like a foul?

I don't play Normal or Heroic since 2 months then, only Legendary 6-party... have you ever tried to ask information before to insult and accuse anyone?

 

As half world I don't like to buy half beta programs... It was an easy answer. And I found this game looking for a coop rpg (with multiplayer function)... so this game is not what I m actually looking for at the moment.

 

Also I'm not playing at all the game since a week, so ... all your premises are aleatory.

Edited September 13, 2016 by RedPred

[PRuano]

 

 

 

Gold collections is for P2P as well ... have you ever tried to use brain before open mouth?

 

And I don't need more. I don't play Normal or Heroic since 2 months, only Legendary 6-party... have you ever tried to ask information before to insult and accuse anyone?

PLEASE, its OBVIOUS the purpose of this post.

 

(And curious, you claim you dont need more but STILL been pressing this button relentlessly through the boards).

 

And the gold colection is easy for P2P (i know, im ONE) since those resources go totally to THOSE EXTRA like treasure cards and dice.

 

Only f2p that dont want to pay OR grind (and its incredibly easy to gain resources here, WE ALL KNOW IT) have to bitch.

 

FACTS, PERIOD.

[RedPred]

The only players who need gold from Normal and Heroic difficulty are newbies. Both P2P and F2P. They are the only one who can benefits from the discussion. That why I take attention to the problem. Then I have to correct my English, because it's not my language...

 

You really didn't guess right one... 

[PRuano]

Sorry, if you get to Legendary, you are not a newbie.

 

And P2P have ALL the scenarios on Normal and Heroic to draw gold from, PLUS Quest.

 

And again, gold is just for extras, for P2P, so not an issue as you claim there.

 

This bitching is a f2p issue only, despite your claims.

[RedPred]

If anyone play Legendary doesn't have the problem of gold ... doing 400 gold per scenario.

 

If someone is not Pro like you surely are... perhaps play still normal or heroic, so perhaps he wish to get some chests... and as I already said in the first post that you reported, he can get only 10 chests playing those difficulties once actually.

 

So all your post in the middle could be avoided because well known or irrelevant in the discussion. So in your posts just hatred and offences on someone else... 

[Gfted1]

Lets please try to remain friendly. The Pathfinder forum users are very helpful with each other so keep up the good work!