Bug: Valeros' melee bonus against summoned Bandits in Waterfront

[Vintsukka]

Came across this bug, and while it's a very minor problem, thought I'd document it here.

 

Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab 4, Android 5.0.2

 

Party: Valeros, Merisiel, Kyra, Seoni

Scenario: Brigandoom!

Difficulty: Legendary

 

Valeros is in Waterfront. When he gets the opportunity to temporarily close the location (summon and defeat a Bandit), his Melee skill is initially shown wrong.

 

I've put all available skill feats into Valeros' strength, meaning he has +7 Melee:

 

 

 

When the Bandit is summoned, the game only shows +4 for Valeros' attack:

 

 

 

When displaying a weapon, the skill shows correctly (+7, +2 from the weapon, -2 from the location):

 

 

 

If I then cancel the weapon, the skill now shows correctly:

 

 

 

The bug occurs only with Bandit, only when trying to temporarily close the location. Not with monsters from the location, not with Bandit from the location, not with Bandit when trying to permanently close and not with other summoned monsters.

 

I noticed the bug several times but didn't think much of it. When I started to really keep an eye out for it, I realized it always happens when temporarily closing.

 

Anyone else encountered this or want to try to replicate?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Vintsukka

[Saint Ajora]

Have you tried to click on that panel which says "combat"? If I am not wrong, you can select between "Combat Strength" (the one that appears to be the default option in your image) and "Combat Melee". I would not call it a bug, but the default option should be the one with the biggest modifier (Combat Melee).

[Ethics Gradient]

Have you tried to click on that panel which says "combat"? If I am not wrong, you can select between "Combat Strength" (the one that appears to be the default option in your image) and "Combat Melee". I would not call it a bug, but the default option should be the one with the biggest modifier (Combat Melee).

I also agree that this is most likely the case.  Even though it says "Combat" up top, it was initially Combat Strength (d10+4), and when you played a weapon it changed to Combat Melee (d10+7).  When you un-played the weapon, it stayed on Combat Melee. 

 

Every now and then I occasionally get a character who tries using some non-optimal dice.  Not sure at all why that happens...

[Ethics Gradient]

As a super-quick followup, I inadvertently reproduced the same issue as Vintsukka.

 

In attempting to temp. close the Waterfront against a Bandit in Brigandoom, Merisiel defaulted to Combat Melee (d4+0) instead of Combat Strength (d8+0).  Usually, the game pretty good about defaulting to your most advantageous roll.

[RedPred]

I'm not sure but if Combat Melee doesn't requires a revealed weapon (if you can use it freely instead of Strength), then all the images are correct.

 

Image 1: Strength (4)

Image 2: Melee (7) + weapon bonus (+2) - location power (-1 * 2 dices = -2)

Image 3: Melee (4+3=7)

 

So if you can use freely Strength or Melee value for combat check, it's ok. If you need a melee weapon for Melee Combat, there is really a bug. But I don't know the physical game rules enough..

[Ethics Gradient]

So if you can use freely Strength or Melee value for combat check, it's ok. If you need a melee weapon for Melee Combat, there is really a bug. But I don't know the physical game rules enough..

 

Page 11 of the ROtR ACG rules:

 

Most monsters and some barriers call for a combat check. Weapons and many other cards that can be used during combat generally tell you what skill to use when you attempt a combat check; if you don’t play such a card, use your Strength or Melee skill.

 

What's weird in my case was that Merisiel initially wanted to beat a henchmen with a d4 (using Melee, a skill she doesn't have), instead of a the normal d8 strength combat check.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ethics Gradient

[Ripe]

 

So if you can use freely Strength or Melee value for combat check, it's ok. If you need a melee weapon for Melee Combat, there is really a bug. But I don't know the physical game rules enough..

 

Page 11 of the ROtR ACG rules:

 

Most monsters and some barriers call for a combat check. Weapons and many other cards that can be used during combat generally tell you what skill to use when you attempt a combat check; if you don’t play such a card, use your Strength or Melee skill.

 

What's weird in my case was that Merisiel initially wanted to beat a henchmen with a d4 (using Melee, a skill she doesn't have), instead of a the normal d8 strength combat check.

 

Yup, only the last image is wrong... when you cancel weapon it should revert back to straight Strength check and only +4 bonus.

 

You should not be able to use Melee, Ranged, Arcane or Divine skill for Combat unless you use a card specifically allowing you to do so. That is why all combat spells and weapons use the following line "For your combat check reveal/display/discard/banish this card to use your..."

[Archangelrey]

Have you tried to click on that panel which says "combat"? If I am not wrong, you can select between "Combat Strength" (the one that appears to be the default option in your image) and "Combat Melee". I would not call it a bug, but the default option should be the one with the biggest modifier (Combat Melee).

 

Wait you can that?! Ugh why did I know that....

[mccrispy]

I've noticed some odd "stickiness" with the auto skill selection recently. It doesn't always seem to pick the "correct" skill - especially if you change things about a bit as you do with Kyra or Lini when trying out their various options in a given encounter (e.g. with bosses that have Arcane OR Combat checks. or with different Blessings, let alone choice between Spell/Weapon). I'll keep my eyes peeled for any other instances of this type of behaviour and report back (hopefully)

[Ethics Gradient]

You should not be able to use Melee, Ranged, Arcane or Divine skill for Combat unless you use a card specifically allowing you to do so. That is why all combat spells and weapons use the following line "For your combat check reveal/display/discard/banish this card to use your..."

Per the rules I quoted, if you do not play a card, you can always use Melee or Strength for a combat check.  

 

In Valeros' situation above, he's allowed to use his Melee skills and throw a d10+7 punch whenever he doesn't have a weapon handy.

[RedPred]

The rule reported by Ethics Gradient explains exactly the situation in the images. It's not an issue, just ambiguous labels of used ability parameters.

Basically the logic for the images is:

Strength (default), melee (with weapon revealed), melee (with weapon removed).

If the devs remove the word 'combat' and explicitly rename it as the ability, it will be clearer for all.

[Ethics Gradient]

The rule reported by Ethics Gradient explains exactly the situation in the images. It's not an issue, just ambiguous labels of used ability parameters.

Basically the logic for the images is:

Strength (default), melee (with weapon revealed), melee (with weapon removed).

If the devs remove the word 'combat' and explicitly rename it as the ability, it will be clearer for all.

FYI.  Paizo has PDFs of the Pathfinder Adventures ACG rulebooks available online.  

The digital version is quite faithful to the rules, so the rulebook is still good resource if you're ever wondering why something happens.  The tutorial scenario in the app is a bit of "crash course" in Pathfinder, and may not have totally explained everything about the underlying game mechanics.