Tank barbarians seem pretty disgusting

[BALONEYPWNY]

Sigh, bash appears to be bugged on Barbarians and hit more than once. I've made a bug report, but it seems like this is another build I'll have to shelve for the time being.

Ugh.  My sympathies.

 

I've decided that I'm just going to finally plow through the entire game on POTD while abusing the Confident Aim bug.  

[Boeroer]

I seldomly play fighters so I have no idea what that bug is everybody's talking about. So what is it?

[Dr <3]

That confidente aim give you far more dmg than it should

[Blades of Vanatar]

...and it does the same for enemies.

[Dr <3]

...and it does the same for enemies.

Always complaining about little details...

[Boeroer]

ROFL

[Jojobobo]

I decided to just go DPS Barbarian in the meantime (I'll leave the tank untouched), given Boeroer's experience that the low concentration isn't that punishing.

 

I'm going low Res for the critical hit procs (Shod-in-Faith and Sanguine Plate) but also as much healing as I can manage (Moon Godlike, Veteran's Recovery, Shod-in-Faith plus Lost Periapt, Savage Defiance and Second Wind) with a Belt of Bountiful Healing and x1.6 survival bonus. I figure between huge DR (I'm picking up Thick-Skinned and Second Skin to go with the plate), massive healing (x2 Consecrated Grounds, in conjunction with all the other stuff I said, and Wound Binding to give me a large enough health pool to make use of those endurance heals) and high DPS plus ridiculous CC and accuracy (dual-wielding Godansthunyr and Strike Hard with Interrupting Blows - with Tall Grass which also benefits from WF Soldier in the meantime) I should do quite well. I'll do a class build if I get far enough solo, as although it is the typical CC + interrupt Barbarian I think the slant towards crazy healing gives it a tanky edge that hasn't featured overly in other builds (at least not Barb builds).

 

Still, I would have preferred to just go pure tank, I guess I'll have to be patient.

[Boeroer]

Just beware: interrups will be an issue at first.

[Jojobobo]

It doesn't seem too bad so far, the fact that my interrupt is so high does offset the issue that they are interrupting me all the time - it's kind of a stalemate 

 

The build was one of the rare one's that beat both the wolves and the bandits in Valewood upon fully resting (to get rid of that initial fatigue) - so that certainly is something in terms of a slight benchmark.

[Boeroer]

Hehe - might be, never experienced that. I always lure the wolves to the bandits...

[Jojobobo]

Cheese tactics are what make a solo run 

[Raven Darkholme]

This thread gives me all kinds of ideas.

Shame this game is still so full of bugs.

[dambros]

This thread gives me all kinds of ideas.

Shame this game is still so full of bugs.

I learned soooooo much from your solo paladin playthrough. I think I wouldn't even bother to start a solo game if I hadn't find those videos.

 

Should do something similar to other classes!

[Boeroer]

Next thing I'll do is a White Worms abusing solo chanter. Hm... sounds kinda gross...

[Raven Darkholme]

 

This thread gives me all kinds of ideas.

Shame this game is still so full of bugs.

I learned soooooo much from your solo paladin playthrough. I think I wouldn't even bother to start a solo game if I hadn't find those videos.

 

Should do something similar to other classes!

 

Thank you

I really want to continue my wiz and do an ultimate chanter run. maybe I'll find the time soon.

[dambros]

 

 

This thread gives me all kinds of ideas.

Shame this game is still so full of bugs.

 

I learned soooooo much from your solo paladin playthrough. I think I wouldn't even bother to start a solo game if I hadn't find those videos.

 

Should do something similar to other classes!

Thank you

I really want to continue my wiz and do an ultimate chanter run. maybe I'll find the time soon.

This would be nice since there are almost zero chanter solo material around.

[Jojobobo]

To regale people with more unwanted solo DPS Barbarian advice, Tall Grass is pretty good early on - but not for the reason you think (i.e., the prone effect). In party play most people use Tall Grass to shield their "squishy" Barbarian from taking damage but stationing him on your second row with it. On solo, seeing as you're taking damage anyway, I find it really helps to hit their second row so that you're getting your Carnage deeper into the mob - hitting the whole group. Honestly early on, your accuracy isn't good enough (this is coming from someone with a Weapon Focus and 18 Per) and with plate (which I still recommend - despite it being a bummer speedwise) you're not attacking fast enough to really maintain the prone (I'll level 5 currently, I'm sure when I get to level 8 maybe the prone will be juicier).

 

I've also picked up Tall Grass in Act I for a change going to Dyrford Village (which I never normally do) - I would strongly recommend this course of action to anyone in the same boat. I'm considering picking up Angio's Gambeson for less recovery and for DAoM early, the DPS might be enough to offset the lack of DR - but Tall Grass set me back a penny. In terms of talents and abilities, I would strongly recommend Veteran's Recovery level 2 and Savage Defiance level 3 - that level of colossal healing so early is to be honest a life saver.

 

If anyone was wondering where I get so much money so early, a pro-tip for backers going solo is to sell Guan's Pledge to Heodan for 2000+, kerching! He buys stuff off you for a dramatically increased value, so even if you aren't a backer I recommend selling him the Disappointer, anything you find in the chests, your weapons and - I'm not proud to say this - your clothes. You have to find the money for the Bronze Horn Figurine somehow! Also, definitely do the Blacksmith's quest before buying the figurine for 1000 gold discount.

[Boeroer]

Yes, a reach weapon really helps to get the best out of carnage. Speaking of prone on crit: I used Hours of St. Rumbalt early on and even at lvl 9 I couldn't disable a lot of folks (also WF and PER 19). In a party you have so many possibilities to lower deflection, as a solo barb not so much. I used Aspirant's Mark and survival ACC bonus and it still wasn't as good as in a party. Dual sabres is still better than Hours of St. Rumbalt in most cases for me. It's also better because I use a Ring of Searing Flames quite often. It's better to hit faster with that thing so that you can stack as many combusting wounds as possible with carnage. I'm curious how Combusting Wounds behaves with Heart of Fury. In a big group it should result in a lot of hits that apply combusting wounds. Should be devastating...

[Jojobobo]

I'm curious how Combusting Wounds behaves with Heart of Fury. In a big group it should result in a lot of hits that apply combusting wounds. Should be devastating...

Probably horrifically. I think that's a large problem with Obsidian, they patch out bugs without looking at the knock-on effects. And while maybe they're maybe hoping that these interactions are caught in the beta (whether they would patch them if reported is debatable), if the player base can anticipate interactions better than the developers then that's not great.

 

I think the Monkster Lasher build is a great example of this, they made Retaliation (and that means all variants) now roll for accuracy but I really think they didn't anticipate the Monk's lashes also being applied to all Retaliation effects. Personally I've been thinking about other Retaliation builds, but then I come to it I consider, "Wouldn't the Monkster Lasher be doing a dramatically better job?" The answer is yes, yes it would - I think the game would benefit from reverting to the old Retaliation mechanics on the Fire Godlike trait but keep the other Retaliation mechanics for the rest, but by that point you've made the mechanics too nonsensical and obtuse for gamers' to grasp so it doesn't work. It's almost like the original v1.0 bug, where they didn't realise Retaliate would be affected by Carnage also, and then Fire Godlike Barbarian builds were monstering through the entire game - and that was okay for v1.0, but now I think we should have moved beyond that.

 

Plus the fact that, I think these interactions definitely divide the fans - as you'll have some saying these are bugged and exploitative features and others that say they're in the game so yeah so what? A game where the mechanics are such that we can all comfortably read from the same page is definitely a better one, where there aren't any terribly exploitative avenues. This isn't to disparage against intelligently thinking of those combinations of newly patched mechanics either, just that maybe the devs should have thought of them first - and whether or not they wanted them in the game, and also whether it's best to continually change the goal posts on these issues.

 

While I get there's a lot more balls in the air with games with complex defense systems and interactions, it's still not as fun when interactions between different effects aren't being thought upon as much as the player base. It's not lazy per se as there is so much to consider, but when certain builds stand head and shoulders above others (Monkster Lasher for example, or "enemies take 100+ damage per Retaliation hit") it becomes a bit silly. Players obviously need defined boundaries to play within, if those boundaries become haphazardly set then how players interact with those boundaries becomes worse.

 

So what I'm saying is, I think the combo of Combusting Wounds and HoF will be a neutron bomb towards any mob you want to attack. In fact, I'm 95% sure without even bothering to test it this will be another overpowered features that, now the devs have patched themselves into a corner ("We apply one patch and there's problems with interactions, we apply another to fix that stuff and there's still new problems with interactions - when will these people be happy?!"), it'll probably just remain in game and be ridiculously strong.

 

With some of these builds, it becomes a fact of - "Do I play this god build or one that is knowingly weaker?" As someone who has always enjoyed designing "optimum" builds for various games (as many hardcore RPG players do) it's a difficult choice to reconcile, especially when some of these issue are springing from a lack of foresight.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Jojobobo

[dambros]

 

I'm curious how Combusting Wounds behaves with Heart of Fury. In a big group it should result in a lot of hits that apply combusting wounds. Should be devastating...

Probably horrifically. I think that's a large problem with Obsidian, they patch out bugs without looking at the knock-on effects. And while maybe they're maybe hoping that these interactions are caught in the beta (whether they would patch them if reported is debatable), if the player base can anticipate interactions better than the developers then that's not great.

 

I think the Monkster Lasher build is a great example of this, they made Retaliation (and that means all variants) now roll for accuracy but I really think they didn't anticipate the Monk's lashes also being applied to all Retaliation effects. Personally I've been thinking about other Retaliation builds, but then I come to it I consider, "Wouldn't the Monkster Lasher be doing a dramatically better job?" The answer is yes, yes it would - I think the game would benefit from reverting to the old Retaliation mechanics on the Fire Godlike trait but keep the other Retaliation mechanics for the rest, but by that point you've made the mechanics too nonsensical and obtuse for gamers' to grasp so it doesn't work. It's almost like the original v1.0 bug, where they didn't realise Retaliate would be affected by Carnage also, and then Fire Godlike Barbarian builds were monstering through the entire game - and that was okay for v1.0, but now I think we should have moved beyond that.

 

Plus the fact that, I think these interactions definitely divide the fans - as you'll have some saying these are bugged and exploitative features and others that say they're in the game so yeah so what? A game where the mechanics are such that we can all comfortably read from the same page is definitely a better one, where there aren't any terribly exploitative avenues. This isn't to disparage against intelligently thinking of those combinations of newly patched mechanics either, just that maybe the devs should have thought of them first - and whether or not they wanted them in the game, and also whether it's best to continually change the goal posts on these issues.

 

While I get there's a lot more balls in the air with games with complex defense systems and interactions, it's still not as fun when interactions between different effects aren't being thought upon as much as the player base. It's not lazy per se as there is so much to consider, but when certain builds stand head and shoulders above others (Monkster Lasher for example, or "enemies take 100+ damage per Retaliation hit") it becomes a bit silly. Players obviously need defined boundaries to play within, if those boundaries become haphazardly set then how players interact with those boundaries becomes worse.

 

So what I'm saying is, I think the combo of Combusting Wounds and HoF will be a neutron bomb towards any mob you want to attack. In fact, I'm 95% sure without even bothering to test it this will be another overpowered features that, now the devs have patched themselves into a corner ("We apply one patch and there's problems with interactions, we apply another to fix that stuff and there's still new problems with interactions - when will these people be happy?!"), it'll probably just remain in game and be ridiculously strong.

 

With some of these builds, it becomes a fact of - "Do I play this god build or one that is knowingly weaker?" As someone who has always enjoyed designing "optimum" builds for various games (as many hardcore RPG players do) it's a difficult choice to reconcile, especially when some of these issue are springing from a lack of foresight.

 

Maybe this is a stupid question, but how many Combusting Wounds can you use per rest (I believe it is 3)? Maybe as a nova round it would be ok if everything work as you said.

Edited July 19, 2016 by dambros

[Jojobobo]

Yeah it's three, and seeing as HoF is per encounter now anyway (plus the fact it's not that difficult to get two rings of Searing Flames if you just check the loot lists) this would be an OP combo to say the least.

 

I know HoF is a late game ability, but changing it to per encounter is pretty brutal - even without the possibility of Combusting Wounds stacking. I suppose that's why they thought it was okay to make it per encounter, because you have to be so far into the game to actually pick it up.

[Boeroer]

And because - let's be honest - the high level abilities of a barb used to be pretty underwhelming. I mean HoF 1/rest was pretty lame while wizards could use Alacrity and  Pull of Eora 1/encounter, rangers got Stunning Shots and Twinned Arrows and stuff like that. At higher levels mobs don't die from one HoF alone. But yeah - if you target 5 enemies with your HoF and dual wield you would get 50 hits if i'm not mistaken; 10 for each enemy. So they would each have 10 combusting wounds which will do 5 burn damage per tick for the rest of the duration of Combusting Wounds. With 20 (+INT) seconds duration this would mean 35 extra damage per one CW instance after 2o+ secs. Times ten = 350 against 0 DR. But against high DR it will be more like 70 or so. So it depends I guess. I will have to test that once I hit lvl 11.

Could be really drastical if I combine that with the bash bug which hits twice (=75 hits with HoF) and a unlocked Unlabored Blade (Firebug will proc 2.5 times on avarage hitting 8 enemies every time -> meaning 75+ (2.55*8 = 20) = 95 hits total). But I guess nothing survives that and can still suffer CW after that. Maybe a dragon with adds.

 

I tried out a Wall of Flames (which hits very quickly) wizard with Combusting Wounds yesterday and I have to say I wasn't too impressed by the performance.

 

Combusting Wounds doesn't only come from rings and a wizard, but there's also a wand with spell chance by the way (Curaoc's Brand). Not that this is of much use for a barbarian.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

I think the best combo for HoF would be Unlabored Blade+Drawn in Spring. The gazillion of wounds you get combined with Combusting Wounds will be hilarious. I have to test it myself... 

[Boeroer]

 

Maybe, but at the moment bash will hit twice (it's a bug) - so if you have a shield with an on crit effect or a spell chance like Badgradr's Barricade/Dragon's Maw, then their special attacks (Thrust of Tattered Veils or Taste of the Hunt) will be triggered more often than before.

Does the wounding "lash" of Drawn in Spring count as seperate hit for CW? 

[Kaylon]

 

Maybe, but at the moment bash will hit twice (it's a bug) - so if you have a shield with an on crit effect or a spell chance like Badgradr's Barricade/Dragon's Maw, then their special attacks (Thrust of Tattered Veils or Taste of the Hunt) will be triggered more often than before.

 

Does the wounding "lash" of Drawn in Spring count as seperate hit for CW? 

Yeah, I forgot that wounds don't trigger combusting wounds anymore...