POTD troubles & questions

[Loren Tyr]

Somewhat to my surprise (Blunderbuss sometimes works a bit unexpectedly with these things), both Blunderbuss and Minoletta's Missiles do indeed trigger multiple CW DoTs. Just tested it (v3.03 beta).

[MaxQuest]

Confirming, that:
- Blunderbuss and missiles do trigger CW multiple times
- CW will tick for 1 dmg on very high DR targets
- It works with Pain Link
- It works with Recall Agony (number of ticks gets doubled)

There is one thing that puzzles me through. At 10 INT, CW doesn't result in 7+1 ticks over 20s like I expected, but in 4+1 ticks over 10s.
Loren Tyr could you confirm this?

Edited July 1, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

Mmm, graze ?

[Loren Tyr]

Are you sure it's 10? It should be five, at 10 INT. The 20 second duration is the duration of Combusting Wounds itself, the DoT duration is set by the ExtraValue parameter. DOTOnHit Tooltip: "When the target is hit, he takes an additional Value damage of type DmgType per tick for ExtraValue seconds." 

[Dr <3]

Trowing a new combusting wounds extend the time of the older One or suppressed the older One? If the stack works in time-prolong type it will be very nice, since you can stack a lot of ticks

[Boeroer]

No, despite the fact that it shows a suppressed status, in fact the all stack like the Dragon Trashed and so on. All those CW burn DoT get accumulated. Well, that's what I understand after reading all this.

 

I had the very best experience with multi retaliation + Pain Link + CW on a cipher.

Very sad that retaliation doesn't produce focus anymore

[MaxQuest]

Are you sure it's 10? It should be five, at 10 INT. The 20 second duration is the duration of Combusting Wounds itself, the DoT duration is set by the ExtraValue parameter. DOTOnHit Tooltip: "When the target is hit, he takes an additional Value damage of type DmgType per tick for ExtraValue seconds."

You are right. Found out that CW DoT duration can be seen when mouseovering over CW debuff on the character portrait, and have tested all the hit quality variants.

(naturally we can't apply CW to a friendly target, but it gets dominated - we can).

 

At 10 INT / 10 MIG, CW DoT durations (exact this time) are:

hit_: 13.3 dmg over 5.0s | ticks for: 5, 5, 3

crit: 17.5 dmg over 7.5s | ticks for: 5, 5, 5, 3

graze: 9.2 dmg over 2.5s | ticks for: 5, 4

 

Trowing a new combusting wounds extend the time of the older One or suppressed the older One? If the stack works in time-prolong type it will be very nice, since you can stack a lot of ticks

- The CW's procced DoT does stack completely with itself.

- While the CW spell does not stack with itself (be it cast by the same or other caster), and will get suppressed.

 

I had the very best experience with multi retaliation + Pain Link + CW on a cipher.

Very sad that retaliation doesn't produce focus anymore

O yes. Barbarian with Heart of the Storm, retaliation and under effect of Pain Link....

Edited January 4, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Loren Tyr]

No, despite the fact that it shows a suppressed status, in fact the all stack like the Dragon Trashed and so on. All those CW burn DoT get accumulated. Well, that's what I understand after reading all this.

 

I had the very best experience with multi retaliation + Pain Link + CW on a cipher.

Very sad that retaliation doesn't produce focus anymore

 

Just to be clear: it is the CW DoTs stack completely, but CW itself does not. In other words, hitting a target more will add more (concurrent) CW DoTs on that target, but casting CW a second time on a target already affected by CW will not result in a hit on that target triggering two CW DoTs. Casting additional CWs on an already CW-affected will only serve to (potentially) keep the CW effect itself going for longer. Note that only the CW itself is shown as an active effect on a character though (and multiples will be suppressed), the DoTs do not. 

[Boeroer]

Ok. All clear now. It would have been better (meaning less complicated) if CW just added X flat burn damage on every hit or even added a +25% burning lash to every hit like the chanter's phrase. Why this whole DoT fuzz? 

[MaxQuest]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It could be that devs wanted it's damage to specifically scale with both Mig and Int.

Or as Loren Tyr pointed out, it was a lazy solution around recursive triggering.

Edited July 1, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

But it used to work with DoT effects. So lazyness can't be the reason.

[MaxQuest]

I don't know what was the reasoning. But it might be for balance reasons. Stacking it with aoe dots could be bonkers.

Especially with dragon-trashed, where each tick would trigger CW twice; or with stacked shining beacons, powered by cleansing flames (for the double tick rate).

 

Tbh I like Kaylon's suggestion that CW should trigger at least from the first tick of a DoT.

Edited July 1, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

No, I meant: It could be that applying CW as a DoT effect makes it easier to prevent it from triggering itself (because it doesn't get triggered by DoT ticks) - but since it used to work with DoT effects a lot of patches ago, that can't be the main reason why they chose that path. Whatever - it's very complicated.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Loren Tyr]

Lashes wouldn't trigger it anyway, since those hit automatically. Though if it did work with DoTs before I suspect it was originally an OnDamage trigger rather than the OnHit trigger it is now. 

 

I suspect the main reason for doing it this way is more thematical than mechanical: they're Combusting Wounds, the wounds are ignited and burn for a while. Having a lash on hit wouldn't quite fit that. Moreover, I'm not sure how easy that would be mechanically anyway. The Chanter phrase applies an effect to the weapons of allies, giving them a bonus when attacking. It isn't a given that CW could very easily be made to work that way because a) it has to work on all damage, not just weapons; and b) it interferes much later in the attack sequence. Whereas the Chanter basically just hands out Fire lashes to everyone in range which are just added into the character's stack of active StatusEffects, the CW effect only kicks in when the particular enemy is being attacked. CW cannot simply modify the attacking character or his weapons, or even that particular attack (since an attack can have multiple targets), so it is a lot trickier even had they opted for a lash rather than a DoT anyway.

[Boeroer]

The chanter's lash affects more than just weapons - it also affects spells. At least it used to. 

[Loren Tyr]

Ah yes, true. I don't Chanter much, it must be said. Looking at it, the code actually doesn't allow it to be restricted to weapons only, it is indeed a general % bonus to damage dealt (through hit rolls anyway, it is referenced by the OnImpact functions of AttackBase and AttackAOE). Interestingly, it is quite unrelated to the implementation to weapon lashes, doesn't use the same mechanism at all. 

 

In any case, still quite a bit simpler than what CW needs to do though, that can't be implemented in this way. 

[MaxQuest]

Btw, update notes for 3.03 mention the following:

 

 

 

Combusting Wounds granted by Spellholding now correctly rolls to hit.

I know that Ring of Searing Flames has a CW spellbind. But what item actually does have CW spellholding?

[Boeroer]

I guess they meant Spell Binding (Ring of Searing Flames) or Spell Chance (Curoc's Brand). The ring had auto hit, so I assume it's the ring they were speaking of. There s no item I know of that triggers CW when you receive a crit.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Boeroer